Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

[Guest]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

alexan;1163094 wrote: Its strange but I seem to have gone in the opposite direction from where I was when I first started taking Naltrexone... I actually tend to drink more now if I pop a pill and I wonder why !?

Maybe its because the alcoholic brain is searching for that "euphoria" its not getting??

No.

Spikes in drinking following the Sinclair Method are common, and there are different reasons for this - but it all comes down to retraining the association with reward from drinking. Your drinking will change, and you will experience spikes. Also new situations, reasons for drinking will come up. Main thing is to carry on taking the Nal, and don't give up on it. As an aside I find I can actually still stop a 'spike' part way through, just by forcing myself to drink slower or taking myself out of that situation. The Nal appears to stop that residual desire once I've actually put the bottle to oneside.

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

alexan;1163092 wrote: UKBlonde, what's your Naltrexone dosing schedule? It seems you are taking one every day in the afternoon? Does that mean you might take one and not end up drinking at all too?

What is your dosing schedule UKB?

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

KatieSmiles;1163425 wrote: Spikes in drinking are common when taking Naltrxone. You are right in that the brain is searching for it's "euphoria". Once it realizes that's not going to happen (trigger extinguished) the numbers drop. It's all a part of the procees and it's why people start having doubts that it's not working, but really it is.
Ukblonde;1166135 wrote: Spikes in drinking following the Sinclair Method are common, and there are different reasons for this - but it all comes down to retraining the association with reward from drinking. Your drinking will change, and you will experience spikes. Also new situations, reasons for drinking will come up. Main thing is to carry on taking the Nal, and don't give up on it.

Thanks guys; thing is I no longer feel the Euphoria whether I take the Nal or I don't.... I was on some pretty intense Baclofen therapy a few months ago (upto 340mg - 360mg) and feel that it may have permanently rewired my brain somehow. On the other hand, however, now when I DO take the Naltrexone, I tend to drink more : / That doesn't make any sense either. :upset: So now I'm almost scared to take the Nal for fear I may end up drinking more. Its been 3 months running now and that's whats going on. Drinking more with the Nal and without Euphoria; and drinking less without the Nal and no Euphoria still either.

I don't mind taking the Nal; its just that I have so many Alcohol-Free days now and I don't know when I'm going to drink or not. If I take it every day then I have to force myself to drink at least some, according to theory, because I don't want the Nal to affect endorphin release from other activities. If I wait until I'm about to drink, then based on recent history patterns, I get wary that I might drink more on the Nal which leads me to deciding not to take it at all. Not sure if I am explaining well the dilemma I have found myself in.

Ohhh I know, Cry Me A River... its not even close to the complete mess I was a few months ago.

Forever yours confused.

[Guest]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

alexan;1168303 wrote: Thanks guys; thing is I no longer feel the Euphoria whether I take the Nal or I don't.... I was on some pretty intense Baclofen therapy a few months ago (upto 340mg - 360mg) and feel that it may have permanently rewired my brain somehow. On the other hand, however, now when I DO take the Naltrexone, I tend to drink more : / That doesn't make any sense either. :upset: So now I'm almost scared to take the Nal for fear I may end up drinking more. Its been 3 months running now and that's whats going on. Drinking more with the Nal and without Euphoria; and drinking less without the Nal and no Euphoria still either.

I don't mind taking the Nal; its just that I have so many Alcohol-Free days now and I don't know when I'm going to drink or not. If I take it every day then I have to force myself to drink at least some, according to theory, because I don't want the Nal to affect endorphin release from other activities. If I wait until I'm about to drink, then based on recent history patterns, I get wary that I might drink more on the Nal which leads me to deciding not to take it at all. Not sure if I am explaining well the dilemma I have found myself in.

Ohhh I know, Cry Me A River... its not even close to the complete mess I was a few months ago.

Forever yours confused.

I don't drink just because I've taken the Nal, never have done. I simply take it if I think I might, or know I am definitely going to. I actually think if you 'force' the issue with nal then it certainly is possible to override it. The advice regards TSM is to drink as normal, normal to me is if I don't want to have a drink I won't do - although for many years it wasn't often I didn't want a drink! If I do have a strong desire to drink, and it's appropriate I will do but always with the Nal.

By the way I train and Nal(drinking on it or not) has not affected my workouts nor enjoyment of them, and Nal has not affected any other pleasureable area of my life. To be fair though alcohol put such a downer on things for me that I couldn't care less if I enjoy anything less, the fact I'm no longer getting into trouble and alcohol isn't affecting me as much is enough.

I don't worry about the Nal and drinking, I simply take it if I think I might and if I decide not to drink then that's actually a bonus. Doesn't seem to have affected my progress at all. Oh and I never drink without taking the Nal so cannot comment on that experience, I'm simply not willing to risk going back to my old ways. Three months is not a long time in Sinclair Land, my advice would be to relax with it. I find drinking on Nal makes me feel tired, at that point I often talk myself around to putting the bottle down and going to bed. I'm not bothered whether that is strict TSM or not, all I know is that every night I drink nothing, or less that's me getting used to not drinking and getting into the habit of being sober.

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

KatieSmiles;1163427 wrote: This a pic of my graph on TSM. My units have dropped wks 14 & 15, but I suspect I will have them spike back up because I'm still early in the process.

Hi Katie,

I was just looking at your signature and just wanted to ask were you really drinking 17 drinks a day pre-MWO ??? Seemed extra-toxic but just thought I would ask -- maybe it was small drinks or something.

Also what does the 256 in the 256/1AF stand for? Can't possibly be the number of drinks a week!?

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) Being Used For MS?

I was just searching on Naltrexone side-effects and came across numerous posts on Low-Dose-Naltrexone (LDN) being used for treatment of Multiple Sclerosis; which I thought was ironic and coincidental that so is this other drug called Baclofen also being used to treat MS that many here are also using to treat Alcoholism just the same as Naltrexone.

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Good for all of you. The last couple of AF days have just gotten "killed" by just taking a little bit of Nal and the 10mg of Bac I thought I could take on a nightly basis to help me sleep / keep me "acclimated". The nausea and paranoia/insomnia's hallucinations have driven me to drink more simply to get over the damn pain.

Yes, I know. NObody drives us to do anything. AA taught me that part.

But I just went through a 360mg "month-long" session of Baclofen and still couldn't get used to simply taking 20mg a few days later.
But I swear to god and I can tell that no one here believes this, but there were PERMANENT changes made whereby I had no cravings WHATSOEVER left!

So why do you ALL of you insist on keep on taking a medication that you swear to his almighty god has you "switched". If it has you "switched" why are you still taking it????

Why won't any of you atleast try to get off of it and see what happens???

I'd rather go through one horrific surgery once and then be lead to a lifetime without pain AND without any additional other drugs for that matter.

[alexan]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

I'd rather go through one horrific surgery once and then be lead to a lifetime without pain AND without any additional other drugs for that matter.

[Guest]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

alexan;1175230 wrote: Good for all of you. The last couple of AF days have just gotten "killed" by just taking a little bit of Nal and the 10mg of Bac I thought I could take on a nightly basis to help me sleep / keep me "acclimated". The nausea and paranoia/insomnia's hallucinations have driven me to drink more simply to get over the damn pain.

Yes, I know. NObody drives us to do anything. AA taught me that part.

But I just went through a 360mg "month-long" session of Baclofen and still couldn't get used to simply taking 20mg a few days later.
But I swear to god and I can tell that no one here believes this, but there were PERMANENT changes made whereby I had no cravings WHATSOEVER left!

So why do you ALL of you insist on keep on taking a medication that you swear to his almighty god has you "switched". If it has you "switched" why are you still taking it????

Why won't any of you atleast try to get off of it and see what happens???

I'd rather go through one horrific surgery once and then be lead to a lifetime without pain AND without any additional other drugs for that matter.

Alexan

I had/have been taking the occasional 25mg at bedtime to sleep and have started to notice I am starting to feel absolutely rubbish the morning after. Another day I took 50mg because I'd been very stressed and was stoned the next day, with part of me actually wanting to take more to continue the stoned feeling.

Anyway I actually want to get rid of my baclofen stash, but not sure how to because I don't think it's right to put them into landfill. Here they try encourage you to take unused medicines to the pharmacy but I am worried I'll be under some sort of suspicion if I do so. I might just pop them in the bin collection this weekend. By the way I'm also not interested in sending large quantities to anyone, yes I'm paranoid but I have reason to be so that I'm not going to write here in public!

[SlipperyPete]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Congrats on the permanent brain change Alexan. I'm just glad I don't consider my titration up on bac as a horrible surgery though!

[terryk]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

alexan;1175230 wrote:

So why do you ALL of you insist on keep on taking a medication that you swear to his almighty god has you "switched". If it has you "switched" why are you still taking it????


Why won't any of you atleast try to get off of it and see what happens???

"God" has nothing to do with it for me, but I can affirm that high dose baclofen (220mg/day now) has kept me completely indifferent for nearly a year.

As far as coming off it entirely goes, anecdotal evidence abounds here on this forum that those who venture too low in search of a maintenance dose (not to mention tapering off completely) often find themselves drinking abusively ("relapsing") again.

It's even been reported (a few times on this forum, and to me personally from a Physician in contact with him) that even the good doctor himself , Olivier Ameisen has had to ramp his dose back up to his "switch" dosage. I'll admit that this is still only hearsay. OA has been in contact with the forum, he could clear this issue up if he would post again.

My prescribing physician has recommended staying at, or close to my switch dose, indefinitely. He has reported that the only time his patients have "relapsed" (his words), is if they have titrated down too low, too quickly.

As it is, I am "switched", sober, and side-effect free.
-tk

[Murphyx]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Ukblonde;1175325 wrote:
Anyway I actually want to get rid of my baclofen stash,

God, I wish you would UKBlonde(.co.uk? :H), then you could stop banging on about how evil baclofen is.

[terryk]

Alexander The Next 's Experimental Combo Journey with TSM (Naltrexon) and Baclofen

Ukblonde;1175325 wrote:

Anyway I actually want to get rid of my baclofen stash, but not sure how to because I don't think it's right to put them into landfill. Here they try encourage you to take unused medicines to the pharmacy but I am worried I'll be under some sort of suspicion if I do so. I might just pop them in the bin collection this weekend. By the way I'm also not interested in sending large quantities to anyone, yes I'm paranoid but I have reason to be so that I'm not going to write here in public!

The concern I'm aware of, is introducing medication/drugs/chemicals into the marine ecosystem, by flushing them down the drain. I've mentioned it before, 85% of the baclofen you ingest is excreted in your urine. If you're taking baclofen and using a regular toilet, I guess you pretty much *are* flushing the bulk of it down the drain. Insert joke about alcoholic fish here. -tk