Another note from Dr Ameisen

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Otter,

It is great to hear that you are both doing well now.

I can only imagine having to live with another alcoholic. I am lucky in that my husband is not a drinker at all. It is helpful when I am trying to stay sober.

My son and his wife are not so lucky. I breaks my heart to think how hard it is going to be for both of them to get sober at the same time. I am hoping if I can show them that Baclofen works, they will consider it.

Love,
Cindi

[_serenity_]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

But there was no "extra" dollar, which was where the riddle was designed to mislead you. Since the $27 included the $2 (and thus didn't need to be added back in), the only other question left would be where the other $3 went...and it was to the three diners.

[LadyLush]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Otter,

LoOp is correct.. FIRE the damn waiter, frickin thief!

Take care of the Ms. which you have done a wonderful job thusfar..
Never question our direction, just keep going :-)

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Hi

Florie, hmmm. I'm really bummed to hear about that.

I'm not not, Ne. Of course I wish it had worked without those SE, but then, if some SE wore off, lack of concentration, inability to study for long hours & to mesmorize what I've tried to work on are still there after two months. Some sort of physical depression too.

Otter,
I had heard of bac through people taking it at a weekly hospital group meeting I attended throughout 2010. I knew it had worked for one person and that others had relapsed after some months. No more. I wasn't interested in that med as I believed it was only for severe cases of alcoholism. Those weekly group meetings were held by Ameisen's former addiction therapist, Dr Sokolov, honorary president of the French AA (eventhough she prescribes lots of med).
We never talked about med during those meetings.

I decided to start bac after reading Ameisen's book in january, trustful of what I had read. I joined a forum with cheerleaders hammering that it worked.
I really wish I had known about SE, I wouldn't have started, because it has destroyed 3 years of efforts to reconstruct myself professionnally...to what extent, I 'll only know in July.
I quickly found myself in a double-bind situation since bac worked, I hit my switch and was AF after two weeks, therefore totally unwilling to stop it although I couldn't work anymore .
I trusted the SE would wear off, but some of them just won't.
I don't trust tapering up again & I don't trust the med itself since I/we don't know what long term bac SE are. Ameisen's behaviour and unreliability have had deterrent effects as far as I am concerned and I trust my intuition more than anything else.
Under bac, I have become agressive to a point I had never experienced before. The slandering stuff. I intuitively figured that this was due to bac, and felt relieved to read the studies on agressivity that were recently published on some threads. They confirm that bac is a dangerous drug for me.

That said, I have to add that my psychanalytical work has been extremely beneficial in many ways as far as timidity, shyness, lack of self-confidence, phobia, overwhelming emotions and so on are concerned. Over the years my alcohol consumption was cut down by more than a third.
Years ago I would have found AA group meetings scarily narrow-minded, sect-like.
Last summer I attended 3 to 4 meetings a week and really enjoyed them. There were quite beneficial too.
I feel I am getting closer and closer to having a grounded, well-integrated personality, a less and less addictive personnality thanks to psycho-analytical work. I'd rather go on travelling this path even if it takes sustained efforts ( which do help building self-esteem too) than choosing to remain drug-dependant, and bac is a very powerful drug.
Bac has helped me though, just a rehab treatment center would have.
So far I have tapered down to 20mg and have not experienced any craving. it seems that sport & yoga help me deal with my dysphoria and anxiety as powerfully as bac, but with no SE. Will be down to 10mg tomorrow & feel quite ready to "avoid passive living and take massive action".
Love,
Florie

[Otter]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Best wishes.

It does take a long time and a lot of effort to deal with SE. I am taking more Baclofen and the confusion and memory loss has gone.

It is a strange thing.

My wife says her mental state is better with higher doses!!

[spacebebe01]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Reading this thread I am both confused and alarmed by it. I do believe that baclofen works, because I want too and I believe the book by Dr Amieson to be correct by coming on MWO I have found out about bac and have found support and help from all you peeps on here without this I would not have found taking bac posible. I have been to 1000's of 12 step meetings over the years I have been battling with my alcoholism and never even thought I had found a solution there, just some temporary relief from drinking, MWO and bac are giving me hope that I can at long last stop and stay stopped drinking. I want to thank every one on here and Dr Amieson for making this possible for me

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florie,

Bac has helped me though, just a rehab treatment center would have.
So far I have tapered down to 20mg and have not experienced any craving. it seems that sport & yoga help me deal with my dysphoria and anxiety as powerfully as bac, but with no SE. Will be down to 10mg tomorrow & feel quite ready to "avoid passive living and take massive action".

I am very heartened to hear this.

It truly sounds like you are ready to take your life on fully. I am glad the Baclofen gave you the opportunity to get to this point, sorry you have suffered so much under the SEs, and hopeful all SEs will wear off in time.

I hear confidence in your writing, which is 95% of any battle.

You go, girl!!!

You have a cheerleader over here.

Love,
Cindi

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Cinders;1097158 wrote: Patients who suffer severe spasicity have been taking high dose Baclofen for years administered through an intrathecal pump.

Here is one link:
Intrathecal baclofen for intractable spasticity of spinal origin: results of a long-term multicenter study; Journal of Neurosurgery - 78(2):Pages 226-232

Intrathecal baclofen for long-term treatment of spasticity: a multi-centre study. -- Ochs et al. 52 (8): 933 -- Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery & Psychiatry

Chronic intrathecal baclofen administration for control of severe spasticity; Journal of Neurosurgery - 72(3):Pages 393-402


Hi,
Questionning the fact that the high doses mentionned in thoses articles are in micrograms...
Just googled "spinal cord/baclofen" and read the first 3 articles...
I'm sure there is a lot more to find if one looks further into it...
Still:

Unfortunately, the amount of baclofen a person can take orally is limited because of toxicity and side effects such as drowsiness and lethargy. Also when taken orally, only a small amount can penetrate to the source of the spasticity within the nervous system. As a result, 25-35% of people with SCI who take this drug orally do not get enough relief.
Recent research is focusing on a new way to administer the baclofen. It is called intrathecal delivery. This means that a pump with a drug reservoir is surgically implanted below the skin in the person’s abdomen. The pump sends the drug directly into the cerebrospinal fluid surrounding the spinal cord. This delivers the baclofen to the spinal cord at a much higher dosage than the oral dosage. The objectives of this study are to determine the degree that intrathecal baclofen reduces spasticity; improves the ability of individuals to function independently in activities of daily living, mobility transfers, and bowel and bladder care; changes the level of cognitive awareness;SPINALCORD: Baclofen Pump: Functional and Neuropsychological Impact on Spasticity


It continuously delivers baclofen in small doses directly to the spinal fluid, increasing the therapeutic benefits, and causing fewer and less severe side effects compared to the oral medicine.

Intrathecal Baclofen Therapy (for MS)
Intrathecal administration achieves high concentrations in the spinal cord with small dosages, thus reducing the incidence of central nervous system adverse effects

Intrathecal baclofen for severe spasticity secondary to spinal cord injury -- Lewis and Mueller 27 (6): 767 -- The Annals of Pharmacotherapy

?????
Florie

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Cinders;1100104 wrote: Florie,



I am very heartened to hear this.

It truly sounds like you are ready to take your life on fully. I am glad the Baclofen gave you the opportunity to get to this point, sorry you have suffered so much under the SEs, and hopeful all SEs will wear off in time.

I hear confidence in your writing, which is 95% of any battle.

You go, girl!!!

You have a cheerleader over here.

Love,
Cindi

Thanks a lot Cindi
I hope You'll find in you current experience the same strength as I did to move and forward to a joyful AF life.
Love,
Florie

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinders
Patients who suffer severe spasicity have been taking high dose Baclofen for years administered through an intrathecal pump.

Here is one link:
Intrathecal baclofen for intractable spasticity of spinal origin: results of a long-term multicenter study; Journal of Neurosurgery - 78(2):Pages 226-232

Intrathecal baclofen for long-term treatment of spasticity: a multi-centre study. -- Ochs et al. 52 (8): 933 -- Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery & Psychiatry

Chronic intrathecal baclofen administration for control of severe spasticity; Journal of Neurosurgery - 72(3):Pages 393-402


Hi,
Questionning the fact that the high doses mentionned in thoses articles are in micrograms...
Just googled "spinal cord/baclofen" and read the first 3 articles...
I'm sure there is a lot more to find if one looks further into it...
Still:


Quote:
Unfortunately, the amount of baclofen a person can take orally is limited because of toxicity and side effects such as drowsiness and lethargy. Also when taken orally, only a small amount can penetrate to the source of the spasticity within the nervous system. As a result, 25-35% of people with SCI who take this drug orally do not get enough relief.
Recent research is focusing on a new way to administer the baclofen. It is called intrathecal delivery. This means that a pump with a drug reservoir is surgically implanted below the skin in the person?s abdomen. The pump sends the drug directly into the cerebrospinal fluid surrounding the spinal cord. This delivers the baclofen to the spinal cord at a much higher dosage than the oral dosage. The objectives of this study are to determine the degree that intrathecal baclofen reduces spasticity; improves the ability of individuals to function independently in activities of daily living, mobility transfers, and bowel and bladder care; changes the level of cognitive awareness;

SPINALCORD: Baclofen Pump: Functional and Neuropsychological Impact on Spasticity



Quote:
It continuously delivers baclofen in small doses directly to the spinal fluid, increasing the therapeutic benefits, and causing fewer and less severe side effects compared to the oral medicine.

Intrathecal Baclofen Therapy (for MS)

Quote:
Intrathecal administration achieves high concentrations in the spinal cord with small dosages, thus reducing the incidence of central nervous system adverse effects

Intrathecal baclofen for severe spasticity secondary to spinal cord injury -- Lewis and Mueller 27 (6): 767 -- The Annals of Pharmacotherapy

?????
Florie

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Originally Posted by Cinders
Patients who suffer severe spasicity have been taking high dose Baclofen for years administered through an intrathecal pump.

Here is one link:
Intrathecal baclofen for intractable spasticity of spinal origin: results of a long-term multicenter study; Journal of Neurosurgery - 78(2):Pages 226-232

Intrathecal baclofen for long-term treatment of spasticity: a multi-centre study. -- Ochs et al. 52 (8): 933 -- Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery & Psychiatry

Chronic intrathecal baclofen administration for control of severe spasticity; Journal of Neurosurgery - 72(3):Pages 393-402
Hi,
Questionning the fact that the high doses mentionned in thoses articles are in micrograms...
Just googled "spinal cord/baclofen" and read the first 3 articles...
I'm sure there is a lot more to find if one looks further into it...
Still:

Unfortunately, the amount of baclofen a person can take orally is limited because of toxicity and side effects such as drowsiness and lethargy. Also when taken orally, only a small amount can penetrate to the source of the spasticity within the nervous system. As a result, 25-35% of people with SCI who take this drug orally do not get enough relief.
Recent research is focusing on a new way to administer the baclofen. It is called intrathecal delivery. This means that a pump with a drug reservoir is surgically implanted below the skin in the person?s abdomen. The pump sends the drug directly into the cerebrospinal fluid surrounding the spinal cord. This delivers the baclofen to the spinal cord at a much higher dosage than the oral dosage. The objectives of this study are to determine the degree that intrathecal baclofen reduces spasticity; improves the ability of individuals to function independently in activities of daily living, mobility transfers, and bowel and bladder care; changes the level of cognitive awareness; SPINALCORD: Baclofen Pump: Functional and Neuropsychological Impact on Spasticity



It continuously delivers baclofen in small doses directly to the spinal fluid, increasing the therapeutic benefits, and causing fewer and less severe side effects compared to the oral medicine.

Intrathecal Baclofen Therapy (for MS)

Intrathecal administration achieves high concentrations in the spinal cord with small dosages, thus reducing the incidence of central nervous system adverse effects

Intrathecal baclofen for severe spasticity secondary to spinal cord injury -- Lewis and Mueller 27 (6): 767 -- The Annals of Pharmacotherapy

?????
Florie

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florie,

I will go find the articles I read about high dose.

It looks like you have done some really good research, thank you!!

Unfortunately, it is the day we are going to celebrate two of my grandson's birthdays and it is at my house.

Soon to have seven children ranging from 13 to 8 months, and six adults. These are the times I am grateful when I am sober. I did Christmas, once, drunk and add my aging parents coming in for Christmas. sigh.

However, today I am sober and grateful.

Love,
Cindi

[Doggygirl]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Cinders;1100219 wrote: Unfortunately, it is the day we are going to celebrate two of my grandson's birthdays and it is at my house.

....

However, today I am sober and grateful.

I think each sober day we have is such a gift. I am so happy for you having that gift today to enjoy your family!

DG

[missyabby1]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Lo0p;1099466 wrote: You basically said all kinds of stuff that I agree with. The only thing I don't understand is why you were telling this to these things to me. It sounds like you're a little miffed at me because you were offended by some things I wrote in my third or so post in this thread, which wasn't even directed at you. It was more or less directed at everyone on the entire meds forum.

This is the first time I've actually read your username and committed it to memory. I quoted a person (you apparently) before claiming that Karen just read a book, took a pill and started to walk toward a cliff like a lemming. You might have veiled it as a question. Either way, I'm sorry if you've been feeling upset lately but you won't ever feel that way if you don't start it in the first place.

Hey Loop, Pity you didn't stop at the first sentence. The rest of your post is pretty petty.I couldn't care whether you committed my username or not to memory. I was wrong to to claim that Karen just read a book etc etc....just saying that, to a new member, seeing a Dr's name and saying that this guy had saved your life.....could be misconstrued . Just sayin... Some people on this forum have been very persuaded by OA's book......me included. I thought it was a VERY persuasive case study. For people suffering from addiction........a very persuasive STORY. And there lies the worry LOOP, vulnerable people...........not people who are homeless, at the end of the line alcoholics, people who don't have computers and sleep under bridges. This forum is full of middle class (dare I say...white westernised people) . I guess that is why I get so upset here (and believe me, I am no better). I tried to put my finger on why I get so antagonistic here and why I keep coming back. I don't think it is for any altruistic reason, believe me. I know I am not going to find "sobriety" in a pill. Sobriety means so much more. The "pill" is just the start, the rest is pure hell. I do not "love" my "medication", I love my children and grandchildren. I cannot state that I "love" a bloody pill. I have wondered what the acronym for Campral might be..........Camp? How bloody stupid that sounds.

Anyway I have had my rant. I really have had so little support on this supposedy "supportive" site......and I guess that is fair enough, I have been antagonistic , drunk and downright rude sometimes but hopefully always honest and apologised when I thought it appropriate.

And Karen, my bedroom still smells of alcohol but my husband isn't here tonight because I refuse to have him in my house whilst he is still drinking. We didn't have a nice dinner , nor did we clean up the kitchen together. He is an alcoholic and I don't want him in my life.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Look, this thread is anathema to me. For many, many reasons. Not the least of which are the obvious ones.

Missy, you and I are simpatico, right? I won't speak for lo0p, but I can tell you that I spent MONTHS looking into bac and OA and Dr. L and anything and anyone else I could in order to find out:
1. Is this true??? (Could it possibly be?)
2. Is this for me?
3. Why can't I take bac? (I tried twice. With rather painful results. The third time I was able to do it.)

I won't go on and on and on. Lo0p was there for a good part of both my initial angst and finally for EVERY step of the way through the bac journey. (Oh. The stories. I'm still embarrassed. anyway.)

I DID my homework. Often with a dictionary, because I didn't understand a lot of it.

OA's book was a turning point in my life. A watershed moment. I owe him my life. I cannot stand to see him vilified, harmed, spoken badly about. It is my great shame that I did it. That is the last I'll say about that now or ever.

Dr. Ameisen's research gave me this life. Period. The one where I can have a lovely dinner with a husband who is also about to leave alcohol behind forever. THIS life. The one I dreamt of... I could go on and on and on. But I won't.

I don't share that stuff to brag. (I don't think.) I share it because I still can't believe it. But it's true. I share it because I want others to see that it's possible. ('cause seriously, if I can do it...) There IS HOPE. For me it's baclofen.

(I call it bac because I don't want Google to pick up my posts. That and it's fun.)

I'm still confused. Still sussing my through this. Add to the mix sobriety! At least I knew drunk (way too well.) This kind of sobriety? No idea what the hell I'm doing. And you people are the ONLY ones that know, that can understand. That can even begin to relate.

So there it is.
Lots of love, Missy. I hope things improve. If not, we'll still be here. If they do, we want to hear about it.
I know for a fact that there is someone in the General Discussion forum who took campral to get sober. He's a hotshot. I admire him. Maybe he can share some of his experience? I'll pm him and you. (Don't want to call him out, because I don't know him or his story well.)
xo
Ne