Another note from Dr Ameisen

[Winks]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florieanne;1097136 wrote: I believe your perception about his being "in a confused state of mind" is quite accurate.
Fortunately, this time, it can't look like a nauseous rumor spread by someone from the French forums.
Yes, he did do it to himself this time. It's good that it is "recorded" now as the words from the wizard himself. (And for all those starry-eyed followers who still don't see it - his message really was *that* bad. Really. Bad. I'm glad it's on the record now. Whatever huge ambitions he had are going to be pretty crippled by that post. His peers in science and medicine are going to have a very hard time getting past that kind of thing. It really was *that* bad. Perhaps his loyal followers could convince him to shut the heck up for his own good?).

I'd prefer to know he posted drunk than to think he didn't.
Mental confusion /impairment are ones of bac's SEs as bac is a CNS depressant.
And we don't know anything about the importance of this SE when taking high bac on the long run.
Okay. If I am following you right - he posted it while drunk or he posted while under strong SE's from high-dose bac (SE's that he categorically refuses to acknowledge even exist). Or he posted it due to some kind of long-term impairment due to high-dose baclofen?

I don't know what I would wish in that scenario. Like I said before, he could have sent that message as the megalomanic that he seems to be naturally. People here surely follow him as people elsewhere follow others of that personality type. But that's not good. Drunk, under the influence of SE's or impaired due to long-term use? . . . I'm not seeing a good scenario here. I understand why you would prefer he was actually drunk. At least then there is something I can relate to. If he was under the influence of the same SE's that he refuses to acknowledge even exist, I have little understanding for him or of him. If his message was the result of impairment due to long-term bac use . . . crap, I think I like the megalomanic better. :upset:

To feel any kind of good feeling about the guy at all, I'd need to believe that he is drunk.

Ameisen is the only person who could speak about that, but he won't.
He can't even stand dealing with the SE.

That really is a problem. All the trials in the world won't overcome that problem.

Really good posts Winks and everyone whose critical mind has not been impaired.

In my experience, there are a whole lot of people out there who do not know what critical thinking even is and would not begin to know how to practice it. That's not an SE of baclofen (not in the US anyway). It's a pretty dreadful indicator of the future of humanity, IMHO. :upset:

[Murphyx]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Yes,
Baclofen works
for 50?/. of the patients according to the French clinical trial made by O Ameisen & De Beaurepaire.
Ameisen says 80?/. because he includes the half successes, those who have cut their drinking by half.
Those are the results published.
They are extremely good but don't show that baclofen is "the" cure.
Besides, that group of patients were still taking the ttt given by their addiction therapists. De Beaurepaire wrote he didn't change anything.
Which means some? most? took nalextrone & acomprosate at the same time (at the minimum) , as it is the regular/standardized ttt in France.

50?/....looks like the results you get on the forum.

So it works, but not for everyone, far from it.
And the least Ameisen should do would be to acknowedge it.
By the way Cinders, Ameisen has lived and worked many years in the US and his English is far far better than mine.
He thinks that those who are put off by the SE just lack in will power... Do you agree with that Cinders?


Of course, we're all looking forward to reading the results of the Netherlands study .
F

[Winks]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Cinders;1097158 wrote:
Patients who suffer severe spasicity have been taking high dose Baclofen for years administered through an intrathecal pump.

Umm, Cindi, people with MS or spinal cord injury who are using the pump are NOT on high-dose baclofen. Their dose is the usual max of 80 mg. per day.

At any rate, it would be nice if you would refrain from falsely accusing other people of posting drunk. I heard you were a nice person who sometimes posts while drunk, and that's when you seem like a harpy. Is that's what is happening to you now?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Deleted after much consideration and consternation because it was inflammatory and pointless.
With apologies
Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Why the fuck do we always have to end up attacking one another when discussing important issues that deserve and need discussion???

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Murphyx,

I'm not a troll.
I am on baclofen and it works...
Hit my switch two months ago.
F.

[Winks]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florieanne;1097168 wrote: Yes,
Baclofen works
for 50?/. of the patients according to the French clinical trial made by O Ameisen & De Beaurepaire.
Ameisen says 80?/. because he includes the half successes, those who have cut their drinking by half.
Those are the results published.
They are extremely good but don't show that baclofen is "the" cure.
Besides, that group of patients were still taking the ttt given by their addiction therapists. De Beaurepaire wrote he didn't change anything.
Which means some? most? took nalextrone & acomprosate at the same time (at the minimum) , as it is the regular/standardized ttt in France.

50?/....looks like the results you get on the forum.

So it works, but not for everyone, far from it.
And the least Ameisen should do would be to acknowedge it.
By the way Cinders, Ameisen has lived and worked many years in the US and his English is far far better than mine.
He thinks that those who are put off by the SE just lack in will power... Do you agree with that Cinders?


Of course, we're all looking forward to reading the results of the Netherlands study .
F

So, 50% is the real success rate of that study (80% being OA's inflation of it). But those 50% successes were also on naltrexone and campral? Hmm.

Part of what disturbs me about Ameisen's message and this entire thread goes back to something you said about the French baclofen forums: That anything that is not bac is considered worthless, despite the massive failure of bac to work for most people long term (often even short term). In this thread, from OA, from Otter, and from others, that same deluded mindset is represented. And yet, here is this study where OA takes credit - and people were on TWO other craving suppressing drugs.

Hmmm. These discussions are really important. People will squeal and whatever . . .

[redhead77]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Cindi,

His english should be very good. Per him, he is working in the US as we speak. He works at State University of New York Downstate Medical Center. Started in 2008. He practiced cardiology for many years prior, while descending into an alcoholism, in New York.

I haven't researched if he really is employed there. I think I will.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Again, deleted for being inflammatory and pointless.

Apologies.
Ne

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Ne/Neva Eva;1097170 wrote: I have received several very bizarre emails from Dr. Ameisen. Some of them are rants. Some of them are borderline incoherent. In several of them he instructed me to include what he wrote to bleep in my own thread. Almost word for word.

I have 3 voicemail messages from him. One of them is 9 minutes long. He is angry and very belligerent about another doctor. Calls the other doctor horrible names, says that he is, "evil" among many, many other vitriolic things.

Our email correspondence began in the fall of last year. It continued until recently, when he ended it without warning.

He also repeatedly assured me that he would post here. "soon" Throughout.

I don't know how much I want to share or whether I want to enter the fray. I'm over it.

But his correspondence made me wonder if he was drunk, had completely lost his mind because of the baclofen, or was *simply* a megalomaniac. I have shared those sentiments EXACTLY off of this forum. His words are one of the main reasons that I doubt the efficacy of high-dose-bac treatment. It's been a difficult thing.

Thanks for sharing.
That it's been a difficult thing, I can understand. Went through that too.
Baclofen works for many many of us. But I'm really concerned about mental SE.
May be that's just his personnality.
He mentions Descombey, his former psychoanalyst in his book. I've read Descombey's books. They are brilliant. He has specialized in alcohol addiction some 35 years ago.
I've also met him at conferences.
It's very strange to me that there should be no trace of a real psychoanalytic work in his book.
I also know his former addction therapist ( medical ttt side) because I worked with her for over a year ( rehab + group meetings at the hospital) in 09-10.
They are both very nice and very committed people.
I am sure that if Ameisen had been back to being a nice/stabilized/balanced person thanks to bac they would have supported him back in 2002-04.
One of them was ready to work with me to raise awareness about addictions among my students, setting up a website, coming to meet them.... just after my rehab...

Why didn't they help him?

Great many thanks, Ne
My point of view is that it's always better to know the truth and where you put you feet.
Doesn't mean that bac doesn't work.
But knowing more about possible mental SE for those who have no spasticity problems seems important.
F.

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Today a visiting professor at the University of NY where he had taught more than a decade before.
F

[redhead77]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Ne/Neva Eva;1097170 wrote: I have received several very bizarre emails from Dr. Ameisen. Some of them are rants. Some of them are borderline incoherent. In several of them he instructed me to include what he wrote to bleep in my own thread. Almost word for word.

I have 3 voicemail messages from him. One of them is 9 minutes long. He is angry and very belligerent about another doctor. Calls the other doctor horrible names, says that he is, "evil" among many, many other vitriolic things.

Our email correspondence began in the fall of last year. It continued until recently, when he ended it without warning.

He also repeatedly assured me that he would post here. "soon" Throughout.

I don't know how much I want to share or whether I want to enter the fray. I'm over it.

But his correspondence made me wonder if he was drunk, had completely lost his mind because of the baclofen, or was *simply* a megalomaniac. I have shared those sentiments EXACTLY off of this forum. His words are one of the main reasons that I doubt the efficacy of high-dose-bac treatment. It's been a difficult thing.

Ne, thank you for sharing this. A day late and a dollar short I would say. This is very important information to hold back. I didn't know you doubted the efficacy of high dose bac treatment?

Why put your body through such hell, if we are going to end up a drunken, insane, freaks, anyway? Let's hope he is a megalomaniac, for all our sakes.

A 9 minute VM rant?

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Winks;1097177 wrote: So, 50% is the real success rate of that study (80% being OA's inflation of it). But those 50% successes were also on naltrexone and campral? Hmm.

Part of what disturbs me about Ameisen's message and this entire thread goes back to something you said about the French baclofen forums: That anything that is not bac is considered worthless, despite the massive failure of bac to work for most people long term (often even short term). In this thread, from OA, from Otter, and from others, that same deluded mindset is represented. And yet, here is this study where OA takes credit - and people were on TWO other craving suppressing drugs.

Hmmm. These discussions are really important. People will squeal and whatever . . .

I'm not sure about how many of them were on campral & Nal because De Beaurepaire doesn't say. As it is the standard treatment, we all (patients) talk about their SE. I know some people can't take those tt because of SE such as nauseas and stomach problems. Very few though.
I would assume at least half of them were on campral and Nal.
And by the way, today, in France, most reputed addiction therapists tend to prescribe bac & nal, or bac and campral, or the 3 of them...and not to go too high into the bac doses.
F

[alexan]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Profound thanks to Ne (Neva Eva) for posting their communication account. Thank you, Thank you many times over.
:thanks:
Look, its better to know this type of stuff than not. Whether Baclofen works or not is besides the point, I would just want all of the facts in front of me now rather than hear about it later, considering he is one of the few people who have been on it long-term in that sense. We are a test lot in this regard and obviously pretty desperate to suffer the SEs and get on with it than bear the alternative but we should have all the cards on the table so we can make an informed decision.

PS: Naltrexone does not curb cravings to every extent of my knowledge -- The Sinclair Method forums are full of people who come there repeating the same things all the time that they are taking it every day to curb cravings and not sure if its working... People why are you taking it everyday? that is not what the sinclair method says -- read the book and follow that routine or you're just putting a chemical rather a placebo in yourself for no reason, which the book mentions over and over again. Jeez. If this latter is what OA was doing then he was definitely going about it the wrong way, and in fact I'm pretty sure he couldn't have been doing anything else because this TSM book was just published in 2008.

Ne/Neva Eva;1097170 wrote: I have received several very bizarre emails from Dr. Ameisen. Some of them are rants. Some of them are borderline incoherent. In several of them he instructed me to include what he wrote to bleep in my own thread. Almost word for word.

I have 3 voicemail messages from him. One of them is 9 minutes long. He is angry and very belligerent about another doctor. Calls the other doctor horrible names, says that he is, "evil" among many, many other vitriolic things.

Our email correspondence began in the fall of last year. It continued until recently, when he ended it without warning.

He also repeatedly assured me that he would post here. "soon" Throughout.

I don't know how much I want to share or whether I want to enter the fray. I'm over it.

But his correspondence made me wonder if he was drunk, had completely lost his mind because of the baclofen, or was *simply* a megalomaniac. I have shared those sentiments EXACTLY off of this forum. His words are one of the main reasons that I doubt the efficacy of high-dose-bac treatment. It's been a difficult thing.