Another note from Dr Ameisen

[philippe987]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Please now everyone, let's stick to the facts :

Fact : Florie says that the admins of the french historic forum said to her that OA was drinking again.

Fact : a new french forum has been created due to numerous problems with the admins of the historic forum.

Fact : the french historic forum does not reference the 4 pages articles on Paris Match.

Fact : the web site of Paris Match does not link the historic forum. It links the news forum instead.

Conclusion : where do you think is the problem ?

[Seethepony]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Fact: this thread is bollocks!

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Hi Philippe,
Nice to see you here.
Fact 3 & 4
I think it would have been fair to mention the first forum - fair considering the incredible work they've done. I don't believe the problems comes from the members of that forum. Not a minute.
Read the whole thread and you'll get a larger picture.
But as far as I 'm concerned never ever will I believe again in any comment made by OA's French disciples. Never will I be part of that lot, useless when you're not allowed to think differently from OA, lest you get kicked out.
Baclofen works, but not for everyone. And with serious SE and impairment for some of those for whom it works. So it shouldn't be pinpointed as the only efficient cure. It is not.
And besides we don't know the long term side effects on patients this medicine was not invented for.
You gave me a link on the lack of side effects on paraplegic people. I don't believe the cognitive SE or motricity coordination SE or bac interaction with alcohol abuse were tested in that study. For obvious reasons.
F.

[philippe987]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florieanne;1097976 wrote: Fact 3 & 4
I think it would have been fair to mention the first forum - fair considering the incredible work they've done. I don't believe the problems comes from the members of that forum. Not a minute.

Fair ?
Fair ?

Of course it would have been fair.

There is a reason why the link from Paris Match is missing, and I think that the admins of the forum know that reason perfectly.

It's their fault. And only their fault if the link - which was present at the beginning - has been removed.

[philippe987]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Another fact : OA has left Aubes (the french association). This is now a public information disclosed to every member. What is not public is how and why.

Another fact : Florieanne says that whe has been told that OA has threatened to sue them for slander.

Interesting, isn't it ?

[LittleLessBoozin']

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Ne/Neva Eva;1097922 wrote:

I've not been intimidated.

......

...he had the time to send me a very, very outraged and long email 7 hours ago....

Fair enough :-S

Paul. (crying rather than laughing :upset

[PbarE]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Ne/Neva Eva;1097922 wrote: Florie,

I've not been intimidated.

I still have more questions than answers. I don't understand a lot. I still feel as though I'm a pawn in this.

The fact remains that the emails and voicemails were lucid, if confusing. Very confusing.

I continue to be very alarmed that he would call Dr. Levin evil, and say that his protocol and dosing schedules are dangerous, but not offer any help or solutions in the matter.

I don't understand why, if he had the time to send me a very, very outraged and long email 7 hours ago, he didn't just post here on MWO.

I don't understand why there were conditions, and there continue to be conditions, on whether or not he participates in any one of the online forums.

There is much more that is disingenuous or outright harmful that I just don't understand.

There is also more to the story than my own correspondence.

The fact remains that baclofen worked for me. That without his research I would not be where I am. The fact also remains that it was a painful and arduous undertaking, and that when I reached out to him for help, I received no answers.

Dr. Levin, on the other hand, has always answered my emails and my phone calls and my questions, promptly, if not with consistent information.

It is very, very confusing and daunting.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, either.

Ne, you are one of the best members on this forum. You reach out to the newcomers, you are generally concerned about the welfare of others and you have been unwavering in your support of baclofen. I am sure everyone else recognizes this.

I am sorry you have been caught in the crossfire in this situation.

This brings to mind a line from the end of movie "War Games", when the super computer, who had almost launched a world wide nuclear attack, said, "Strange game...the only winning move seems not to play."

I know I will catch some heat for this, but I will say it anyway. At the very least, Dr. A is a flake. He might even be a meglomaniac, a bully and a predator. I can this without judgment because I have been or am all of those things myself. Most addicts and alcoholics are. Come to think of it, so are a lot of normal people.

But as you have stated, this has nothing to do with baclofen. It works just fine...for many people.

Thomas Jefferson was a racist, a slave owner, a hypocrite and an arrogant elitist - but that does not render the Declaration of Independence a bad document.

Carl Jung was a Nazi sympathizer, but that does not mean Analytical Psychology is flawed.

Same applies to Dr. A and baclofen. The Messenger might be human, but the message is Divine.

[LadyLush]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

PbarE,

Quote:
Same applies to Dr. A and baclofen. The Messenger might be human, but the message is Divine.

Amen my friend, AMEN!

Lady

[alexan]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

PbarE;1098186 wrote:
Same applies to Dr. A and baclofen. The Messenger might be human, but the message is Divine.

Loved this. I think you are so right!

[Otter]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Really, how can any of us get into the mind of a man who is the nephew of Helena Rubenstein, physician to the French President, awarded the Legion of Honour, acclaimed by a Nobel Laureate. I am just the husband of a recovering alcoholic!

It is very easy to let envy overrule one's better judgement and jump to conclusions about a very extraordinary person who might just have a view of the world that we don't understand.

This whole debate is very impassioned and I am actually pleased to hear that OA is getting upset with people because there is a lot even here to get upset about. Posts criticizing Baclofen treatment because it has not been trialled, other treatments are just as good. I think there is a huge element of just plain "missing the point" here. No wonder he gets annoyed. He must think a lot of people here and elsewhere just are not that bright and are getting in the way of this being adopted as a mainstream treatment.

It is obviously true that Baclofen treatment is not perfect. But with only a bus load of doctors prescribing amongst the 9 billion of us it stands to reason that there is a lack of good medical oversight of its use.

I don't see where we are going with this thread. This is supposed to be a supportive forum in a "therapeutic" community. Not only is this not supportive but it is damaging to the people here and potentially slanderous of someone who is not here who has done nothing wrong to anyone here and has given people good health and hope as no one else has.

Maybe, as someone posted, there is a problem with relapse after seven years of sobriety. I hope not. So, why not start talking about that and what might be done about it? Is Arbaclofen going to be the answer to this? Is there something that can be done about side effects? I found Ginko (sp?) helped with memory. I also found I was not taking enough Baclofen.

Think before you post stuff about people who are not here how you would feel if someone posted the same thing about you! Then, don't do it.

Let's find answers, not vilify people.

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Just to add to great thoughts that came from very flawed humans:

Rousseau - A philosopher who published great thoughts on raising and educating youth, many of which are in place today in most European and US school philosophies, (although this has been changing in the US lately, but let's not go there....) He had several children who he ignored and did not take care of, he gave them up for adoption. He was a terrible person and a terrible parent.

Voltaire - A great philosopher who worked for the French Academy (I think that is what it is called.) Florie, may know what it is called. (I am too lazy to Google right now.) He was known as a great debater. However, he was also known for ridiculing his opponent in a debate to undermine his opponnent's credibility, when Voltaire could not actually beat his opponent with logic. What an @sshole!!

I agree with the idea that Ameisen is human but a great human in that he was willing to give up his practice because he was afraid he would hurt one of his patients due to his alcoholism. He is a great human because he was willing to hurt his professional standing as a well-known cardiologist to spread the word of what he found to work for himself as a "cure" for alcoholism. He is a great man. He may be arrogant (I don't feel like he is and I certainly did not see that in any of the interviews he did,) and he may be "flaky," but his message is Divine. Please note, I use the word Divine, not divine.

So, I want to THANK YOU, Dr. Ameisen, from the bottom of my heart. And, I want you to know how grateful I am you were willing to sacrifice so much in order to share what you found. You could've kept it from mankind to save yourself from embarassment, instead you chose the high road. I, for one, salute you and am grateful for your presence.

So, let's talk about flawed human beings. I have never met one who isn't. I think one was purported to have been on this earth a couple thousand of years ago. (I believe it but do not expect everyone to believe it.) I know I am certainly flawed, and recognize it.

This thread took a horrible turn. I do not blame or dislike anyone who posted what I felt was very hurtful and slanderous and I recognize that my responses became very angry and emotional. But, all of us are in this together and we are fighting this together. So, just like my brothers and I, I may get angry with some of you but I will always care about you. We are brethren.

Love,
Cindi

ps I apologize for the typos but I am too lazy to go back and fix them. Baclofen somnolence. :-)

[PbarE]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Cinders;1098312 wrote: So, let's talk about flawed human beings. I have never met one who isn't. I think one was purported to have been on this earth a couple thousand of years ago. (I believe it but do not expect everyone to believe it.) I know I am certainly flawed, and recognize it.

And look what they did to Him!

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Cinders;1098312 wrote: Ameisen is a great human in that he was willing to give up his practice because he was afraid he would hurt one of his patients due to his alcoholism. He is a great human because he was willing to hurt his professional standing as a well-known cardiologist to spread the word of what he found to work for himself as a "cure" for alcoholism. He is a great man.
you were willing to sacrifice so much in order to share what you found. You could've kept it from mankind to save yourself from embarassment, instead you chose the high road. I, for one, salute you and am grateful for your presence.

I wish I still believed in fairy tales.
I'm still very much concerned about long term bac cognitive/mental SE.
F.

[gratitude]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

florieanne,
I wish I still thought in black/white, either/or ideas. it was much easier than having to think in shades of grey. but alas, shades of grey hold more truth. grat.

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

gratitude;1098481 wrote: florieanne,
I wish I still thought in black/white, either/or ideas. it was much easier than having to think in shades of grey. but alas, shades of grey hold more truth. grat.

Quite true Gratitude. Hence my concern.