Another note from Dr Ameisen

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florie,

I do believe in fairy tales.

I, too, have concerns but I cannot bring myself to blame a person who did what OA did. He, too, was desperate and his life was unmanageable.

It is not OAs fault that what he found is not perfect. But I do think it is better than what we otherwise suffer from.

Please take gentle, kind and loving care of yourself. Believe in fairy tales. Just for a little while. :l:l

The rest will take care of itself as it is supposed to unfold.

Love,
Cindi

This is silly stuff from a mathematician but sometimes, Florie, faith is all we have.

[ignominious]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

"Take this pill and fairly soon you will stop drinking"

A year ago I would have been vehement that was a fairy tale.

[terryk]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florieanne;1098478 wrote:
I'm still very much concerned about long term bac cognitive/mental SE.
F.

Florieanne, the medical literature that you've posted to suggest this is baseless upon examination. The "links" to MS boards that you say you've read (that suggest this) can no longer be found by you. The "information" that you claim to have about OA is hearsay at best and it seems that there is a lot of conjecture around that information on many fronts.

Until you follow through with some scientific evidence or evidence at all, you are just fear mongering.

There's been a lot of hysteria drummed up recently and I'd like some facts.

-tk

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Terryk,
I spent a lot of time reading those SCI & MS forums because I have real bad cognitive SE. So I did it for myself, during the two weeks I wasn't on MWO, with no idea that I would need the references later on. And I am definitely not going to spend those long hours of research again.
So believe or question what you will.

As for the hearsay, I 'm quite sure they are reliable. Why would any ex-alcoholic cured thanks to bac start questionning Ameisen's mental health? We're here talking about people who've worked or had personnal mail exchanges with him.
Besides there is more to those "hearsay" than what has been published on the board.

It will take about a decade for doctors to have facts and scientific evidence about bac SE on alcoholics. The only person who's been taking bac long enough to give us some insight is Ameisen, but so far he hasn't proved very helpful on that matter.

There are some people who are completely AF thanks to bac. That's really great.
Otter who's completely pro-bac has reckoned relapsing heavily while on bac can be horrendous. Which confirms what I had read on the SCI & MS forums. And yet the advice is still to go on drinking while tappering up the doses. Why?
F.

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Cinders;1098493 wrote: Florie,

I do believe in fairy tales.

I, too, have concerns but I cannot bring myself to blame a person who did what OA did. He, too, was desperate and his life was unmanageable.

It is not OAs fault that what he found is not perfect. But I do think it is better than what we otherwise suffer from.

Please take gentle, kind and loving care of yourself. Believe in fairy tales. Just for a little while. :l:l

The rest will take care of itself as it is supposed to unfold.

Love,
Cindi

This is silly stuff from a mathematician but sometimes, Florie, faith is all we have.

Hi Cinders,
Faith is what has been the most helpful gift to get AF during long periods without any med.
Yet, sadly enough, it comes & goes.
I know OA was desperate when he discovered bac could help. I think there is something utterly sad to the whole story...
Hope you 're feeling better those days,
Take care,
Florie

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florie,

Thank you for asking.

I am on day 6 and it is purely because of the Baclofen. As you well know, though, I am feeling so much better, even with the Baclofen's SEs, than in the binge I was in last week. As I go along in the Baclofen journey, I am sure I will forget that last binge and start to concentrate on the SEs. This time I expect this frame of mind and am more prepared to deal with it.

Baclofen is the single tool that has helped me stay sober.

Faith never helped me before because being a mathematician I over analyze. When I was in rehab, they told me that alcoholics like myself are difficult cases. They tried hard to sell me on a six month program. I simply could not do it due to work and family needing my income. They argued that my family won't have my income much longer if I keep drinking the way I do. You know, the "rock and a hard place" UK was talking about. Sadly, I know that as long as I am employed when I die, the family will be fine because of the life insurance my company has for me. Sick, alcoholic brain.

It is nice to be sober today and hearing the cardinals, the chickadees, and the titmice singing their mating songs outside.

Love,
Cindi

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Oh, and I have an added $250K if I die on a trip.

I tried to commit suicide once out of town when in the depths of a binge. It didn't work because I threw up the entire bottle of Benadryl before it could affect me. It did have some effect, I slept for a long time afterwards. Woke up really fuzzy and with the shakes of withdrawal happening. It was pretty horrible, actually. I had to go to work that way.

I am not sure if a bottle of Benadryl will actually kill you but I gave it a go.

Sick, alcoholic brain.

Love,
Cindi

[bleep]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

"Wouldn’t some of you guys be better off concentrating on your sobriety and supporting each other?"

Well said Zen.

Cindi, that's really good to hear. The AF bit, not the suicide bit. Hopefully it is the start of something really positive. I'll be thinking of you. Since you are a mathematician, have you seen this puzzle:

Three ladies go to a restaurant for a meal. They receive a bill for $30. They each put $10 on the table, which the waiter collects and takes to the till. The cashier informs the waiter that the bill should only have been for $25 and returns $5 to the waiter in $1 coins. On the way back to the table the waiter realizes that he cannot divide the coins equally between the ladies. As they didn’t know the total of the revised bill, he decides to put $2 in his own pocket and give each of the ladies $1.
Now that each lady has been given a dollar back, each of the ladies has paid $9. Three times 9 is 27. The waiter has $2 in his pocket. Two plus 27 is $29. The ladies originally handed over $30. Where is the missing dollar?

[Winks]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

The bill was not $30 It was revised to $25. Subtract the $2 that the waiter kept from the $27, and you get the reduced bill of $25. It adds up.

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Yep, 25+2+3=30

Too easy, Bleep. :-)

[Florieanne]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Cinders;1098840 wrote: Yep, 25+2+3=30

Too easy, Bleep. :-)

Wish long term recovery were as easy...

As I am tapering off bac because of SE
I have to find one of those roads less travelled by...
Love...faith.... & Free eBook: Avoid Passive Living & Take Massive Action (thanks Coalfire)
could be good answers
It is no doubt frustrating to have the cure in one's hand (bac) and it doesn't work for you because of SE.
:headbanger:
Florie

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Zenners,

Really good post. However, I wonder if aggression if also part of Bac's SEs. Truly.

I find myself responding passionately rather than analytically, not my usual style. :-)

Thank you for reminding all of us what this site is about. Supporting each other and not sniping, pot shotting and putting each other down.

Love,
Cindi

[Cinders]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florie,

Very sorry to hear you have to titrate down off of Baclofen but I understand.

Last year, at the beginning of the year, I was trying to use Baclofen. I was working for a client in a very stressful environment. Between Jan 1st and June 1st, I put in 1780 hours. I simply could not do Bac at that time, even at low doses.

Today, I have been given a gift. I was told this morning that I can work from home as I have done such great work this week by being isolated and away from the managers pulling me aside for this question and that. This means I can, 1, titrate up at a more reasonable pace than this week because I was afraid I only had a short time to be here, 2, I can deal better out-of-sight with the SEs than on a client site.

I know you bolded the cure and I know you know there are many paths to sobriety. I hope and pray whatever path you choose next is the one that works for you and you can work with.

Love,
Cindi

[Winks]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Florieanne;1098849 wrote:
It is no doubt frustrating to have the cure in one's hand (bac) and it doesn't work for you because of SE.
:headbanger:
Florie

No doubt frustrating but par for the course. Hence, my problem with the word "cure." If it was a game of golf: Birdies, eagles and albatrosses are out there, but there aren't many. Tiger Woods is not the common man. There are many more pars for most people. Many, many more bogeys. It's all "normal" and to be expected. Or, it should be expected given everything we know about the game and can see from past performances. IMO.

Re: aggression. The post from God (and some that could have come from Charlie Sheen) show that aggressiveness is one thing affected. In one study (not that one study means much), people who were normally aggressive tended to become less so on relatively low-dose baclofen. People who were not normally aggressive tended to become more aggressive:

Acute effects of baclofen, a gamma-aminobutyric ac... [Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2002] - PubMed result

Who knows what that all means with high-dose baclofen.

But, regarding the baclofen thing overall, it would be nice the see the norm recognized as the norm, IMO.

[Murphyx]

Another note from Dr Ameisen

Stop pretending that maths question is easy. It's not and your answers make no sense. It's impossible and my head hurts. :upset: