Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

[KTMAdv]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

KTMAdv;1108927 wrote: ... or MAOI's with their known ... side effect issues...

FWIW I looked real hard at Nardil(phenelzine) because it raises synaptic GABA levels and supresses anxiety in a way that ends up working in a very similar way to both the Lyrica I mentioned earlier and more distantly, most benzodiazepines. I never found any reports of Nardil relating to supression of alcohol craving directly like Baclofen or Phenibut, though.

Furthermore, I read that back in ~2003 the generic formula for Nardil changed, and by that I mean they substuted molecules somehow(I'm not a molecular physicist) in a way that was supposed to be a perfect substitution but that, according to many longtime Nardil users, changed it to the point of uselessness to them. This is more that I do not have time to re-research and cite my sources here but I'm sure if you Google around a bit you'll see what I mean...in any case I dropped my research into Nardil because even if it would have worked for my depression and/or anxiety, it seemed like the "real thing" wasn't going to be available to take a real stab at trying anyway.

[bleep]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

Hi KTM,

Personally, I have never tapered off baclofen. These comments are therefore just based on extensive reading, because at one point it looked like I was going to run out of baclofen, so I was curious as to what my options were.

20mg's per week has been the figure quoted by a doctor who prescribes baclofen for alcohol addiction, and is thus familiar with it in the doses we discuss. Personally, I reckon it could be done quicker, again, not based on any science, just from general reading about baclofen.

I don't know if your other questions are still relevant, given what I have said above, but I have been taking baclofen since the start of the year, and have been extremely successful with regard to it removing cravings. Currently I am sitting on a dose of 300mg's.

Hmmm - based on your post, I was doing a bit more research. It seems some of the MS patients have had a horrid time coming off baclofen. I'll look around some more and post what I find.

[RatStew]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

bleep;1108940 wrote: Personally, I have never tapered off baclofen. These comments are therefore just based on extensive reading, because at one point it looked like I was going to run out of baclofen, so I was curious as to what my options were.

20mg's per week has been the figure quoted by a doctor who prescribes baclofen for alcohol addiction, and is thus familiar with it in the doses we discuss. Personally, I reckon it could be done quicker, again, not based on any science, just from general reading about baclofen.

You are the first person I have ever read who said there are no w/d's from baclofen. Even the wikipedia entry on bacoflen makes specific mention on w/ds and how terrible they are. Since phen/baclofen and benzos share many pharmocological traits, I can't help but feel you're mistaken.

20mg/week seems like a really low dosage for baclofen. Most guys on this forum based on their signature are taking 150mg+ daily.

KTMAdv;1108745 wrote:

I don't have alot of time as I'm working crazy hours right now
I'm in a similar predicament. Which is why phen withdrawal scares me so much. It will put me out for much of a week, and seep me into a bad depression and isolation. Not really where I need to be right now. I've already started tapering phen down and those effects are already hitting pretty damn hard. Makes me wish I had access to klonopin.

but your comment about St John's Wort is amazing to me - a little history: my mom, in desperation I think, turned me on to SJW when I was about 16.

brands make all the difference in the world. The only brand that did anything for me was Perika by Natures Way. I have heard Kira brand is OK too, but it wasn't as good as Perika for me. iherb.com has it for great prices.
I'm at about ~2g of Phenibut a day presently, and have been higher in past episodes of utilization, and can sympathize with the withdrawal misery. I can only guess that, given that I read over and over again that Phenibut is "pharmacologically identical" to baclofen - without the tolerance issue - I will be able to make the same transition that you will soon without a hitch. I certainly don't consider myself "addicted to" Phenibut but instead "dependant" in the sense that anyone who has found Baclofen to be their ethanol substitute is dependant on Baclofen.

Phenibut to me - for about the first 2 months of use - is like that NZT drug in that Limitless movie. It's awesome, gives me heightened awareness, makes me smarter and more social. But after 2 months something clicks and it does far more damage than good, gives more brain fog, more anhedonia, etc.

I am not so sure about the transition at all. Where are you on it? Have you begun the transition yet? Where are you going to start your baclofen dosage and administration schedule? This is my main concern...

For example, I take 7-8g/day Phenibut in two dosages: morning and afternoon ~ 3PM. How would I convert that to baclofen? Would you start at 40/40/40/40? I mean, I really have no idea.

I also found on another forum that SJW - an SSRI & GABA reuptake inhibitor - may attenuate the withdrawals associated with GABAgenics. So I will add that to the ol regimen.

[bleep]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

No, you misunderstood me - I'm not saying there are no withdrawals from baclofen. If you stop suddenly, it's terrible, and should be avoided at all costs from what I've read. What I was saying, and I'm still looking around to try and back it up, is that baclofen can be tapered off relatively easily, without experiencing withdrawals.

The 20mg's per week was the figure that the dosage could be reduced by on a weekly basis, not the actual dose being taken.

I'm drawing mostly off members experiences here when I say that, but am hoping to soon find some literature to back me up. I'll post here when I and if I do. Or don't, for that matter.

I've no clue how you would convert phenibut to baclofen, or if it works that way, so can't help you there.

[Toro]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

My bac dose varies anywhere from 0 rarely, 50 most common and anywhere up to 200, depending on the situation, that was a after a few months on a stable dose though. No cravings, no withdrawl symptoms for me anyway, but would imagine that wouldn't apply to those on steady high dose.

The beneficial sides including lowering anxiety and the fact that it isn't addictive and can't be abused by those of us with addictive obsessional personalities is also great.

[bleep]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

I have looked around, and pretty much exhausted what I have been able to find. Most people, it seems, have no problems tapering off baclofen. So much so that there is little reliable data as to how they have done it. It seems to have been such a non-issue that nobody has seen fit to post their methods. Such data that does exist, mostly MS patients, seem to say that 10% every two weeks is the best way to taper off.

Personal stories of people titrating off baclofen here on this forum have seen them doing it much quicker than this.

A common theme seems to be to listen to your body, and go according to that. Too fast, and apparently you will know about it.

[RatStew]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

bleep;1109322 wrote: No, you misunderstood me - I'm not saying there are no withdrawals from baclofen. If you stop suddenly, it's terrible, and should be avoided at all costs from what I've read. What I was saying, and I'm still looking around to try and back it up, is that baclofen can be tapered off relatively easily, without experiencing withdrawals.

Well hopefully you're right Because phenibut withdrawals are like death. You will literally have a panic attack for opening a jar of peanut butter. For depressive types like myself, this presents a rather uninviting downward spiral

Toro;1109411 wrote: My bac dose varies anywhere from 0 rarely, 50 most common and anywhere up to 200, depending on the situation, that was a after a few months on a stable dose though.

Why do you vary it? It seems like everyone else on this forum, once they reach a "switch" dosage they maintain it at that...


My guess for the phenibut/baclofen conversion is this:
Baclofen is reported at about 15x the strength of Phenibut
If I take 2 daily dosages of 3g Phen each, I should start with b/w 150-200mg baclofen twice a day?

However, I noticed most guys on MyWayOut take baclofen 4x/day? Is this b/c baclofen has a shorter half-life?

So then maybe I should take 75-100mg 4x/day?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

I have not followed the thread, or the discussion thus far.

I weigh in because I can't imagine that it's a good idea, under any circumstances, EVER to take that much bac at one time when just starting out. *Lo0p has done it.

I am not referring to the typo of "750-100mg". I am referring to taking 150mg or more at a pop. Twice a day.

Clearly you know more about meds etc... than I do, and I trust that you know what you're doing and are not looking for a way out that includes a visit to the nearest ER.

I also presume you are looking for info. I've been around here for a minute or two and I can say unequivocally that I've seen more harm than good come from people jumping in at high doses. In some cases, it resulted in rather alarming stuff.

Is there a way you can middle ground this so that you're not doing something that has some potential to be very risky?
Be safe. okay?

[RatStew]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

Yes, I understand we're your coming from. Most guys on this forum start at a low dose and titrate up until they hit the 'switch.'

I'm sort of in the opposite situation. I'm taking a baclofen analogue at too high a dose (!) and want to switch to baclofen and titrate down. Baclofen appears to be a much more standardized and cleaner pharmaceutical than phenibut, and seems ideal for this situation.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

Alright. I took the opportunity to read through. Fascinating the research you guys have done and the lengths to which you'll go. Makes our venture into baclo-land seem a little tame in comparison, which is funny to me.

Anyway. Clearly you'll have some information about the correlation between phen and bac that I don't know about, but it doesn't change my word of caution. I'm not being alarmist, I don't think. The stories are pretty horrific, though, and include at least one medically induced coma. (from a binge and mixing and matching other drugs from what I could discern)

Sounds like bac could be a really good fit for you both. I hope so.
Good luck.
Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

Cross posted. Good. I'm relieved it looks as though you've thought this out pretty thoroughly!

Again, good luck. Bac worked wonders for me!

Edit: (but does phen have the same SEs? hallucinations etc... when you overdose?)

[bleep]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

Hi Rat,

You'd be pretty disoriented if you took baclofen at that dosage straight off the bat. That and a few other things besides. If you were looking to get to 400mg's of baclofen, I reckon you could look at 6 weeks minimum. Some have done it in less, but not many. Most take more.

Whether your phenibut experience would help you in this, you'd know better than I. A simple way to find out would just be to take some baclofen and see how you react. People who are into that sort of thing take 80mg's as a social high, so maybe try and see it reacts, and take it from there?

[RatStew]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

Ne/Neva Eva;1109602 wrote: Clearly you know more about meds etc... than I do, and I trust that you know what you're doing I know just enough to be dangerous

Ne/Neva Eva;1109602 wrote: Edit: (but does phen have the same SEs? hallucinations etc... when you overdose?)

pharmacologically, phenibut and baclofen are very similar, but bacl is a cleaner pharma with less SE I think, without having used bacl yet.

bleep;1109607 wrote: You'd be pretty disoriented if you took baclofen at that dosage straight off the bat. That and a few other things besides. If you were looking to get to 400mg's of baclofen, I reckon you could look at 6 weeks minimum. Some have done it in less, but not many. Most take more.

Well how do most guys take it though? What's the reasoning for taking it 4x/day? Short half-life? Problems sleeping if you don't take it right before bed?

[terryk]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

Hey RatStew, I see that you've posted on Bluelight. I would make sure you really poke around over there, check the archives, and pick some brains. Just about everyone there is a recreational user/abuser, but a few still have their heads screwed on. I'm not a medical professional and I can't give you advice, and I'll bet trying to equivocate phenibut to baclofen dosing is difficult for any doctor who hasn't done it before *a lot.*

I always suggest to folks here, when they are switching brands of baclofen (one of which may for various reasons be more potent than the other) to taper one in while simultaneously tapering one out (10% a+90%b ->20%a+_80%b, etc until 100%a +0%b) Hope that's not too complicated.

Maybe it makes sense to start a Phenibut taper (down) and experiment with a low dose baclofen taper (up/in) to lessen the discomfort of withdrawal? I would seek professional medical help first (and actually, come to think of it, last time I did that with my Gaba-b problems the doctors really screwed me up, so maybe.....) But if that didn't work that's what I might try.

-tk

p.s. I take 240mg/day in 4 even doses every 6 hours. Short half-life and keeping an even blood/bac level are the reasons. My previous experiments with loaded dosing gave me a roller coaster of side effects.

[bleep]

Will Baclofen replace Phenibut for me?

I take mine in about 8 doses throughout the day, in an attempt to really even out the supply in my body, and have done since the start. Initially, it helped to reduce the SE's if I spread it like this, I've since found it to be more effective than taking 1 large dose at some point in the day.