First thread start on this forum, please be patient and I will try to relate this in a logical matter(I'm prone to tangents of over-detailed background). I'll get to the Phenibut and baclofen part eventually...
The short question is: If Phenibut works(aside from curbing alcohol cravings) for me to almost exactly he same degree and ways that I read Baclofen works(aside from curbing alcohol cravings) for others(items common to my experience with Phenibut are bolded) here:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...its-45389.html
...and here:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...fen-49498.html
Violence. Reduction in violent outbursts which had resulted in broken windows, ornaments, remote controls.
Stops self harm. Stops incidents of self inflicted harm such as wrist slashing, attempting to jump off piers, cliffs, jump into water, stand in front of buses, wander into traffic.
Ends drinking binges lasting 8 to 10 days
Reduces speaking volume.
Better sex!
Will Baclofen work the same way for me?
Can I make the transition from Phenibut to Baclofen without having to withdraw from Phenibut(daily at 500-1000mg for a coupla months now...) first?
Some personal alcoholism background: First drank and abused alcohol at age 13, chugged a bunch of wine(mom never noticed because she didn't drink much) in mom's garage and have been more or less an addict ever since. It has waxed and waned but since turning 21 and always having been gainfully employed(since 14) I have always craved alcohol. Always been an anxious kid, anxious adult - never went on dates in highschool, dated little in college because it was so hard for me, and always always liked to party. Alcohol always soothed this and became a daily habit. Over time, I've gotten to the point where four Long Island's leave me just a little buzzed, and at times I could easily kill 10 liters of Franzia Sunset Blush box wine in a week. Wine gets poured into a 20oz cup over a little ice, and if I'm home I always seem to find a drink in my hand.
The only thing that prevented me from becoming a full-fledged alcoholic like my mother's brother and father was athleticism and a very alcohol-free upbringing for the most part. I always had a reason to not drink even though I craved it so, and as such the disease has progressed very slowly(relative to many I read about). As life and jobs and stress has set in and I have less time for athletic pursuits, the drinking takes it's place further and further into my life. I recently visited said uncle and witnessed his deterioration, he is 60 and looks 80+ and - lo and behold - drinks incredible quantities of Franzia Sunset Blush, no joke. We even like the same drink and without having seen each other for 15 years. And, even though my mom never told me, he related to me that his father(my grandfather) on that side also liked sweet alcoholic beverages, daily, until he died early of cancer unrelated to drinking. To say that I got the alcoholic gene from that side of the family is clearly and understatement and this episode, among a million others, had me looking to resolve to minimize my drinking...
...to no avail. Sufficing a lot more progresively grim details, I ended up with a pretty serious alcohol problem that was worsened by a failing relationship and living situation...that is history but living alone has really revealed how much I use alcohol to deal with general anxiety as well as social anxiety, mostly to my detriment physicall, mentally and financially.
Bear in mind that through this I have always held professional jobs, climbed the ladder, travelled a lot, skiied all over the Southwestern US and Europe, attained semi-professional sponsorships racing motorcycles and bicycles in multiple racing organizations, and been "successful" to most looking in on the outside. I'm not trying to brag, I'm simply stating that I've done pretty well desipite all of this silly addiction nonsense...but if I could beat this, I could do so much better and realize my real potential in so many great ways. It all looks pretty good, with the exception that I frequently drink to be happy when alone, to calm my nerves, to be able to focus...the usual functional alcoholic excuses. Never have I been through any sort of physical alcohol withdrawals but never have I used it casually like most people seem to be able to. I'm the guy that buys an extra beer because I don't want to have to stand in line again, and because I'll kill them off that fast. And with the volume I've progressed to, I began to realize that this was NOT the way to deal with this - sacrificing my liver for my sanity. And lastly(and mostly, anymore), drinking that much took too much time and started taking away from the things I truly loved...
So what does this have to do with Phenibut, you ask? Well, by strange hook and crook I ended up taking fish oil supplements, for a raised cholesterol level, and my head felt clearer. Some googling revealed that fish oil was considered "nootropic" - more googling revealed that nootropics like Piracetam, and Phenibut, were readily available via mailorder. Being an intellect, and never shy to try a chemical with a little research behind it and established groups of users validating it's efficacy, I delved into experimentation with a vengeance. I liked the clear-headedness and began to purchase and experiment with all of these fascinating drugs("supplements").
They all worked and "did what they said they'd do;" but Phenibut was a shining star for me, a diamond amongst gems. It was the lubricant my mind needed, without the glass in hand and bad breath and risk of a DUI and lack of coordination and memory loss. In fact, thinking was so clear and crisp, memory so good(have to remember 10-digit numbers for work all the time, an impossibility even when sober, and could do it with ease on Phenibut for the first time EVER). But the amazing part was the lack of alcohol craving - even my girlfriend noticed that the same box of wine was in the fridge for weeks, and I was suddenly majorly productive at work. In addition, sex was awesome all the time, projects left idle at home suddenly got resumed and completed, social events went from dread and drudgery to sparkling displays of personality and charm, etc. It was great, for about a month, and then tolerance started to be a real problem...and then I ran out andrealized after the withdrawal had set in(another LONG story) how "addicted" I was to Phenibut.
But, it was a glimpse into an alcohol-free or alcohol-indifferent life, where my brain and body worked so much better, that I could not forget. So I resolved to leave it alone for a long time and come back to it, to try and use it more responsibly the next round. And I did, and it's working fantastically: I have every one of the positive effects in bold above on a consistent basis...but tolerance is indeed building, albeit much, much slower than the first time. I don't use it recreationally at all to prevent and minimize this, in fact I don't even like it at doses that most people who are just using it for kicks use it at, at least, without tolerance being a factor. It's been several months even to get to where I am now, with no breaks at all and still daily use carefully moderated. However, I never want to go through that withdrawal again...even though I have a secret weapon now(Lyrica, see further posts here). For a "normal" person with no anxiety issues per se, it's gotta suck; for an otherwise normally anxious person it was hideously miserable and nearly drove me to self destruction. However, despite the tolerance, and backing off to prevent it(and having alcohol cravings and drinking return) I cannot help but wonder if I'm having a realization similar to this person:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...hol-42714.html
Then I started researching again, trying to find an alternative, and learned more about GABA-b agonists and modulators and all of the extensive research that has been done in recent years on this unsung hero of a system. Furthermore, I read about GHB, GBL, all of the similarities, the GHB receptors and how it is endogenous, how it is found in fermented drinks(particularly, WINE...hmmmm), Baclofen and found this site and all about Dr. Olivier Ameisen and his book and and and....here I am. More on all of that later...
I've ordered some Baclofen to see if my hope is true, but have been unable to find anyone else's similar transfer of dependance between these two Gaba-b drugs. ANy input anyone can relate will be helpful while I wait for my first attempt at baclofen to arrive...
:thanks: to everyone on this forum; it has been so educational and I will be absolutely smitten with life if I can find a way away from my ethanol demon.
The short question is: If Phenibut works(aside from curbing alcohol cravings) for me to almost exactly he same degree and ways that I read Baclofen works(aside from curbing alcohol cravings) for others(items common to my experience with Phenibut are bolded) here:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...its-45389.html
Mirawizad;971420 wrote: I am wondering other peoples beneifts with Baclofen. Here are mine...
1-Weight Loss - Less Hungry
2-Getting stronger in the gym without eating as much.
3-Anxiety is 90% gone or more. Went from can I handle life to life is easy.
4-Off all anti-depressants was on 200 mg of Zoloft and 60 mg of Busporne both max doses. I am currently on 120 mg of Baclofen a day in 4 doses.
5-Sleep better now that I take a 4th last Baclofen dose 1 hour before bed.
6-Libido through the roof.
7-Craving/Desire to drink went from 8 down to 0 to a 1 on a scale of 0-10. Have went 18 days ABS free, longest I went in a few years.
8-Actually listen to what my wife says now without being defensive.
9-Get more done at work and life.
10-Don't really remember feeling this good EVER.
Only side effect has been a bit clumsyness but that is because I went up on it fast.
Wondering when the My Way Out book might be updated with Baclofen instead of Topomax because of less side effects and all the positive results and then some. Is this a miracle drug or what?
So what benefits have you noticed on Baclofen?
-John
1-Weight Loss - Less Hungry
2-Getting stronger in the gym without eating as much.
3-Anxiety is 90% gone or more. Went from can I handle life to life is easy.
4-Off all anti-depressants was on 200 mg of Zoloft and 60 mg of Busporne both max doses. I am currently on 120 mg of Baclofen a day in 4 doses.
5-Sleep better now that I take a 4th last Baclofen dose 1 hour before bed.
6-Libido through the roof.
7-Craving/Desire to drink went from 8 down to 0 to a 1 on a scale of 0-10. Have went 18 days ABS free, longest I went in a few years.
8-Actually listen to what my wife says now without being defensive.
9-Get more done at work and life.
10-Don't really remember feeling this good EVER.
Only side effect has been a bit clumsyness but that is because I went up on it fast.
Wondering when the My Way Out book might be updated with Baclofen instead of Topomax because of less side effects and all the positive results and then some. Is this a miracle drug or what?
So what benefits have you noticed on Baclofen?
-John
...and here:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...fen-49498.html
Otter;1101671 wrote: I thought I would start a thread about the positive side effects I have noticed with Baclofen.
Here are some. I will add some more when I think of them.
This is the behaviour which Baclofen has changed:
Obsessive compulsive behaviour has gone, ie., buying clothes every day until the whole floor of a bedroom was covered with shopping bags of clothes which took three hours at Marks and Spencers to return for refund.
Here are some. I will add some more when I think of them.
This is the behaviour which Baclofen has changed:
Obsessive compulsive behaviour has gone, ie., buying clothes every day until the whole floor of a bedroom was covered with shopping bags of clothes which took three hours at Marks and Spencers to return for refund.
Violence. Reduction in violent outbursts which had resulted in broken windows, ornaments, remote controls.
Stops self harm. Stops incidents of self inflicted harm such as wrist slashing, attempting to jump off piers, cliffs, jump into water, stand in front of buses, wander into traffic.
Ends drinking binges lasting 8 to 10 days
followed by days of recovery on librium.
Largely eliminates PMT symptoms.
Eliminates depression.
Eliminates fear.
Aids sleep.
Gives a general sense of well being and optimism about the future.
Allows one to cope with considerable stresses and anxiety.
Sharpens the mind, allows one to focus on things, rather than being distracted by anxious thoughts.
Better relations with family and neighbours.
Increases confidence.
Reduces irritability.
Largely eliminates PMT symptoms.
Eliminates depression.
Eliminates fear.
Aids sleep.
Gives a general sense of well being and optimism about the future.
Allows one to cope with considerable stresses and anxiety.
Sharpens the mind, allows one to focus on things, rather than being distracted by anxious thoughts.
Better relations with family and neighbours.
Increases confidence.
Reduces irritability.
Reduces speaking volume.
Better sex!
Will Baclofen work the same way for me?
Can I make the transition from Phenibut to Baclofen without having to withdraw from Phenibut(daily at 500-1000mg for a coupla months now...) first?
Some personal alcoholism background: First drank and abused alcohol at age 13, chugged a bunch of wine(mom never noticed because she didn't drink much) in mom's garage and have been more or less an addict ever since. It has waxed and waned but since turning 21 and always having been gainfully employed(since 14) I have always craved alcohol. Always been an anxious kid, anxious adult - never went on dates in highschool, dated little in college because it was so hard for me, and always always liked to party. Alcohol always soothed this and became a daily habit. Over time, I've gotten to the point where four Long Island's leave me just a little buzzed, and at times I could easily kill 10 liters of Franzia Sunset Blush box wine in a week. Wine gets poured into a 20oz cup over a little ice, and if I'm home I always seem to find a drink in my hand.
The only thing that prevented me from becoming a full-fledged alcoholic like my mother's brother and father was athleticism and a very alcohol-free upbringing for the most part. I always had a reason to not drink even though I craved it so, and as such the disease has progressed very slowly(relative to many I read about). As life and jobs and stress has set in and I have less time for athletic pursuits, the drinking takes it's place further and further into my life. I recently visited said uncle and witnessed his deterioration, he is 60 and looks 80+ and - lo and behold - drinks incredible quantities of Franzia Sunset Blush, no joke. We even like the same drink and without having seen each other for 15 years. And, even though my mom never told me, he related to me that his father(my grandfather) on that side also liked sweet alcoholic beverages, daily, until he died early of cancer unrelated to drinking. To say that I got the alcoholic gene from that side of the family is clearly and understatement and this episode, among a million others, had me looking to resolve to minimize my drinking...
...to no avail. Sufficing a lot more progresively grim details, I ended up with a pretty serious alcohol problem that was worsened by a failing relationship and living situation...that is history but living alone has really revealed how much I use alcohol to deal with general anxiety as well as social anxiety, mostly to my detriment physicall, mentally and financially.
Bear in mind that through this I have always held professional jobs, climbed the ladder, travelled a lot, skiied all over the Southwestern US and Europe, attained semi-professional sponsorships racing motorcycles and bicycles in multiple racing organizations, and been "successful" to most looking in on the outside. I'm not trying to brag, I'm simply stating that I've done pretty well desipite all of this silly addiction nonsense...but if I could beat this, I could do so much better and realize my real potential in so many great ways. It all looks pretty good, with the exception that I frequently drink to be happy when alone, to calm my nerves, to be able to focus...the usual functional alcoholic excuses. Never have I been through any sort of physical alcohol withdrawals but never have I used it casually like most people seem to be able to. I'm the guy that buys an extra beer because I don't want to have to stand in line again, and because I'll kill them off that fast. And with the volume I've progressed to, I began to realize that this was NOT the way to deal with this - sacrificing my liver for my sanity. And lastly(and mostly, anymore), drinking that much took too much time and started taking away from the things I truly loved...
So what does this have to do with Phenibut, you ask? Well, by strange hook and crook I ended up taking fish oil supplements, for a raised cholesterol level, and my head felt clearer. Some googling revealed that fish oil was considered "nootropic" - more googling revealed that nootropics like Piracetam, and Phenibut, were readily available via mailorder. Being an intellect, and never shy to try a chemical with a little research behind it and established groups of users validating it's efficacy, I delved into experimentation with a vengeance. I liked the clear-headedness and began to purchase and experiment with all of these fascinating drugs("supplements").
They all worked and "did what they said they'd do;" but Phenibut was a shining star for me, a diamond amongst gems. It was the lubricant my mind needed, without the glass in hand and bad breath and risk of a DUI and lack of coordination and memory loss. In fact, thinking was so clear and crisp, memory so good(have to remember 10-digit numbers for work all the time, an impossibility even when sober, and could do it with ease on Phenibut for the first time EVER). But the amazing part was the lack of alcohol craving - even my girlfriend noticed that the same box of wine was in the fridge for weeks, and I was suddenly majorly productive at work. In addition, sex was awesome all the time, projects left idle at home suddenly got resumed and completed, social events went from dread and drudgery to sparkling displays of personality and charm, etc. It was great, for about a month, and then tolerance started to be a real problem...and then I ran out andrealized after the withdrawal had set in(another LONG story) how "addicted" I was to Phenibut.
But, it was a glimpse into an alcohol-free or alcohol-indifferent life, where my brain and body worked so much better, that I could not forget. So I resolved to leave it alone for a long time and come back to it, to try and use it more responsibly the next round. And I did, and it's working fantastically: I have every one of the positive effects in bold above on a consistent basis...but tolerance is indeed building, albeit much, much slower than the first time. I don't use it recreationally at all to prevent and minimize this, in fact I don't even like it at doses that most people who are just using it for kicks use it at, at least, without tolerance being a factor. It's been several months even to get to where I am now, with no breaks at all and still daily use carefully moderated. However, I never want to go through that withdrawal again...even though I have a secret weapon now(Lyrica, see further posts here). For a "normal" person with no anxiety issues per se, it's gotta suck; for an otherwise normally anxious person it was hideously miserable and nearly drove me to self destruction. However, despite the tolerance, and backing off to prevent it(and having alcohol cravings and drinking return) I cannot help but wonder if I'm having a realization similar to this person:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...hol-42714.html
Then I started researching again, trying to find an alternative, and learned more about GABA-b agonists and modulators and all of the extensive research that has been done in recent years on this unsung hero of a system. Furthermore, I read about GHB, GBL, all of the similarities, the GHB receptors and how it is endogenous, how it is found in fermented drinks(particularly, WINE...hmmmm), Baclofen and found this site and all about Dr. Olivier Ameisen and his book and and and....here I am. More on all of that later...
I've ordered some Baclofen to see if my hope is true, but have been unable to find anyone else's similar transfer of dependance between these two Gaba-b drugs. ANy input anyone can relate will be helpful while I wait for my first attempt at baclofen to arrive...
:thanks: to everyone on this forum; it has been so educational and I will be absolutely smitten with life if I can find a way away from my ethanol demon.
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