just got my own bac!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just got my own bac!

I'm just going to throw this out there:

I think I would ask Dr. L about this particular protocol if I were starting out. That seems awfully low, and for an awfully long time, to me. And this protocol is new, as in within the last month.

There are several people who have a relationship with Dr. L who have reached indifference on the boards right now who used a very different protocol.

I know that I would have been very, very reluctant to go down, and bac up. And speaking for myself, it absolutely did not diminish my SEs. The lower doses were the worst.

I hope that if you find them particularly difficult or onerous you'll consider going up and not back down again. They often dissipate. I know it's counterintuitive, but it is the truth.

just fwiw, okay?

[Isolde]

just got my own bac!

I agree with bleep and NE. If you've been doing fine at 20mgs a day, I personally would not go backwards (and that is what you are doing, as far as I'm concerned). I know that it doesn't sound right to go against the advice of the good doctor, but what have we all been saying around here for ages that seems to have been working out just splendidly? "Listen to your body." If you are feeling good on 20mgs w/out any SEs, friggin' GO for it.

Disclaimer -this isn't medical advice, blah blah blah. Just my personal opinion.

5mgs and then 10mgs for a week each seems REALLY low to me..

And of course you know that whatever you decide, we're all here behind ya!

[redhead77]

just got my own bac!

Hi Rudy,

If you were doing fine on 20 mg/d, why are you going down?

[LittleLessBoozin']

just got my own bac!

ignominious;1109496 wrote: Hi Paul. Very level post. I'd like to here a bit more about this and the reasons thereof. If you've got the time.

Hi Iggy,

Put simply, going from 5mg/day to 30mg/day is a 600% increase in dose. This isn't at all normal when titrating meds- a more normal profile would be 100%, in fact normally much less!

That said, this is a special case, and I believe there are two key reasons for the unusual protocol:

- This is a serious disease, and by the time people decide to start Bac, you can bet it's fairly advanced in most of us. the sooner we stop the booze, the better.
- Pragmatism sometimes trumps patience. Dr. L. knows that no-one switches on less than 100mg, and if you imagine going up in 5mg increments the whole way, you're looking at a LOOONG time before the therapy becomes substantially effective. In short, people would either abandon the therapy or just break the rules anyway.

Paul.

[LittleLessBoozin']

just got my own bac!

RudyB;1109785 wrote: howdy all. thanks for all your input.
paul, yes, i'd love to keep track of us and our dosing here together, that would be great.
i've been very blue today, and cranky as hell. i feel like i've had a special treat yanked from me. (i'm sure i'm also a bit hungover, and i am sick of my students!) i was doing just fine on the 5 mg x 4/day thing, and i hate to back up! but, i'll do what dr L said and slow it down a bit (tho i CAN'T go to 5 mg a day, just can't bring meself to it!). so, for the next few days, 5 mg, 2x a day, which is half of what i was doing. murphyx, your words that "it will eventually catch up to them", ie titrating too fast, are interesting... it's hard to imagine that, if you get through the first week or so w no se's on your initial dose, that you might just get a little bite in the hiney down the road. i guess i'll swallow the difficult pill of titrating slowly, llook for my patience, and keep the faith, as they say...
thanks for the input. 'preciate it so much...
r

Rudy:

Keep the patience, keep the faith but also keep to your dose. As others have said, if 20mg/day is working for you, there is no good reason to back down. Just keep to that dose for a week and then tit up to 40mg next week would be my advice.

But I'm not a doctor!

Paul.

[ignominious]

just got my own bac!

LittleLessBoozin';1109907 wrote: Hi Iggy,

Put simply, going from 5mg/day to 30mg/day is a 600% increase in dose. This isn't at all normal when titrating meds- a more normal profile would be 100%, in fact normally much less!

That said, this is a special case, and I believe there are two key reasons for the unusual protocol:

- This is a serious disease, and by the time people decide to start Bac, you can bet it's fairly advanced in most of us. the sooner we stop the booze, the better.
- Pragmatism sometimes trumps patience. Dr. L. knows that no-one switches on less than 100mg, and if you imagine going up in 5mg increments the whole way, you're looking at a LOOONG time before the therapy becomes substantially effective. In short, people would either abandon the therapy or just break the rules anyway.

Paul.

I've got a slightly different take on it. The extremely slow start is to gauge or allow for the few people who may have extreme reactions to baclofen , either physically or psychologically. (I guess it's possible to be allergic to baclofen?!)

After 5mg/day for the first week there is a 300% increase to 20mg/day (that's what you originally posted) which admittedly seems quite a lot. Thereafter 30mg/day increase per week is significantly less of a percentile jump and I think you're probably right that it's too accommodate people wanting to get to the switch as fast as possible. 30mg increase in one shot could also provide enough of a 'punch' for baclofen to come into it's own.

Any thoughts?

Hi Rudy. Sorry for the hijack. Hope you're feeling better today. Slowing down can also mean just taking longer between upping your dose. It can take up to 5 days or more for the SEs to subside once they kick in. Please keep us updated so we can cheer you on and for scientific purposes!!

[loveforlife]

just got my own bac!

Hey everyone, I just started working with a doctor who put me on Baclofen, an anti-seizure med, and naltrexone. I am sooooooo ready to finally not have alcohol be an issue in my life. Can you tell me your experience with side effects on any of these medications? I am hopeful but scared that I will "fail" at this. AA NEVER worked and all I felt was guilty that I could not stay sober.I would love to hear your success stories!!

[Murphyx]

just got my own bac!

RudyB;1109785 wrote: howdy all. thanks for all your input.
paul, yes, i'd love to keep track of us and our dosing here together, that would be great.
i've been very blue today, and cranky as hell. i feel like i've had a special treat yanked from me. (i'm sure i'm also a bit hungover, and i am sick of my students!) i was doing just fine on the 5 mg x 4/day thing, and i hate to back up! but, i'll do what dr L said and slow it down a bit (tho i CAN'T go to 5 mg a day, just can't bring meself to it!). so, for the next few days, 5 mg, 2x a day, which is half of what i was doing. murphyx, your words that "it will eventually catch up to them", ie titrating too fast, are interesting... it's hard to imagine that, if you get through the first week or so w no se's on your initial dose, that you might just get a little bite in the hiney down the road. i guess i'll swallow the difficult pill of titrating slowly, llook for my patience, and keep the faith, as they say...
thanks for the input. 'preciate it so much...
r

Rudy, when I said that, I was referring to the people who follow a ridiculously fast titration i.e. up to 100mg/day within a week, not what you're doing.

Your earlier post said Dr L had suggested 5mg twice per day, not once. It's up to you of course, and the other posters all have a wealth of experience, but you've got a great resource at your fingertips (Dr L) and the sensible thing would to go with his recommendation. Having said that, personally I'd probably stay on 20. So there ya go. Confused? :H

[RudyB]

just got my own bac!

yeah, a bit confused, but my instinct says that i'll be a-ok to stay on the 20 mg/day. dr L said go to 5mg/day, then after 4 days, 5 mg 2x/day, then up 20 mg/wk. dunno if i miscommunicated that before or what. but i had virtually NO se's, except a very happy almost euphoric feeling. not a bad thing at'all. so, after reading all of your mostly concordant input, i've decied to go up a bit again. did a day on 2x 5mg, but will up it to 3x 5mg today and will do so for a few days.

think i neglected to mention that dr L said start VERY slowly because about 300 people -if i understood correctly- went bananas on moderate doses (but higher than 5mg/day), and he wants to prevent that. perhaps he's just coverin his ass? i'm clearly going to lose my mind if i don't lose the booze, so i'm upping it a bit on my own. which would be worse? more euphoria -and a shockingly quick diminisment in my interest in drink- or more hangovers? hmmm, not a question that requires much thought...

thanks for your input. i'll keep you posted.
xoxo rudy

NE: where in the hudson valley did you grow up? i'm near kingston/new paltz.

[LittleLessBoozin']

just got my own bac!


After 5mg/day for the first week there is a 300% increase to 20mg/day (that's what you originally posted) which admittedly seems quite a lot. Thereafter 30mg/day increase per week is significantly less of a percentile jump and I think you're probably right that it's too accommodate people wanting to get to the switch as fast as possible. 30mg increase in one shot could also provide enough of a 'punch' for baclofen to come into it's own.

Iggy- FYI, I fecked up in my previous post- it was from my (booze addled) memory. Dr. L's schedule, which I am slavishly following, does indeed go from 5mg/day to 30 mg/day, and then up in 20mg/day/week doses.

HTH,

Paul.

[Murphyx]

just got my own bac!

edit

[ignominious]

just got my own bac!

LittleLessBoozin';1110476 wrote: [i]

Iggy- FYI, I fecked up in my previous post- it was from my (booze addled) memory. Dr. L's schedule, which I am slavishly following, does indeed go from 5mg/day to 30 mg/day, and then up in 20mg/day/week doses.

HTH,

Paul.

Thanks man. Just trying to put my life back together and that's another little bit that fits in. :new:

Edit: HTH ?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just got my own bac!

loveforlife;1109951 wrote: Hey everyone, I just started working with a doctor who put me on Baclofen, an anti-seizure med, and naltrexone. I am sooooooo ready to finally not have alcohol be an issue in my life. Can you tell me your experience with side effects on any of these medications? I am hopeful but scared that I will "fail" at this. AA NEVER worked and all I felt was guilty that I could not stay sober.I would love to hear your success stories!!
HI lovinglife! :welcome: You're in the right place. Here's a bit for you to look forward to:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...fen-47958.html

Looking forward to hearing more about you!

RudyB;1110343 wrote: yeah, a bit confused,
...
think i neglected to mention that dr L said start VERY slowly because about 300 people -if i understood correctly- went bananas on moderate doses (but higher than 5mg/day), and he wants to prevent that.

I'm WAY confused about that. Huh?

I went to college (one of the ones I attended!) there. VERY close to Kingston. Small school. Bob Dylan worked there. Lead singer of Steely Dan went there. Lots and lots of hippie-dippie types. I want to go bac. To 18. Anybody got a mulligan-pill?
xo
Ne
(btw, it really matters not, probably, in the long run, how much in the beginning (in terms of starting low.) It just matters that you can and will keep taking the damn pills! you know?)

[missyabby1]

just got my own bac!

Tracey??? lol How many people are you??

Missy

[Isolde]

just got my own bac!

ignominious;1110492 wrote:

Edit: HTH ?

Stands for Hope That Helps