Naltrexone Works!

[Guest]

Naltrexone Works!

Well luckily Beatle I did and had already been reading around, including visiting a naltrexone forum which I have now joined as a full member. As already explained I didn't read much about baclofen in the first place because I had plenty of forum members shouting that it worked, just take the pills, titrate up and wham. This time I don't have all that going on (plus I can actually read stuff now I'm not taking baclofen)and I've gone off to check how this thing does work.

It can be all too easy to make assumptions about people over the internet.

Anyway that doesn't matter now I'm still taking the nal and do not have any intention of not carrying it through. Like I say it doesn't have any crippling side effects - which was the only reason I quit baclofen, and it appears to be doing something since I've not been able to get blottoed for 4 whole weeks now. Fully prepared for my drinking to get worse and not expecting a miracle.

Onwards and upwards.

[Noelle]

Naltrexone Works!

Ukblonde;1116171 wrote: Fully prepared for my drinking to get worse and not expecting a miracle.

While I'm glad you're prepared and all, please don't be defeatist about it. One never knows.

[eight days a week]

Naltrexone Works!

Ok I know I haven't been back to the thread since I last posted (and actually posted a fairly incomplete response in one crucial sense that I know I should redress, and that should be done most effectively by going back, reading any responses, and editing and clarifying - the thing is I just do not have time right now.)

So I'll just say, hoping that it will be enough, that the people I kept close contact with - a random group of around 20 who took Nal long-term (as-per the book, but perhaps more importantly also as-per the TSM forum; i.e. well beyond what the book contains) - none were 'cured' and people only benefited in ways other than those described by the book (reduced cravings, a sudden and complete cure as per AJ on the tsm forum, etc). This isn't a scientific sample by any means, but it's a sample enough for me to recommend that no-one listens to advice on the tsm forum to continue taking this extremely strong medicine for more than five or six months in the hope it will finally 'stick' if strong (personal) evidence isn't already there. Especially if they are getting close to death by alcohol as I was.

That said, and what I didn't acknowledge, is that there is a list on the TSM forum of the 'cured' which numbers quite a few. Now, I'm certain that the 'not-cured and persevered for a long time' list is very, very much longer, but just because I don't personally know the cured doesn't (of course) mean it doesn't happen - far from it, the list is proof enough for me. Nal is clearly a powerful medicine that works on all sorts of levels for alcoholics, and can help various people. Just not usually in the way the book promises or the TSM forum (at times) seems to 'over-promote' imho (and certainly not for 80%).

Try Baclofen instead. Or, if Nal's already helped somewhat, try them both together. If you try Baclofen first and it helps but you can't get far enough with it, add in Nal. For me, between them these two meds hold the key for almost all alcoholics, if the right way with them is found

beatle;1116135 wrote:

Another observation: baclofen seems to do the same thing you all are talking about with Nal -- it reduces the buzz you get from alcohol. For me, this is definitely true with baclofen, and there are many others who have reported this. I know the two work on different receptors in the brain, but perhaps the end result is similar and attained in similar (perhaps parallel) ways. i.e. the connection between alcohol and the reward is weakened to the point where the brain no longer craves it. ... ?

As far as I can get my head round it (perhaps not far!) the results may be the same, but the way of getting there couldn't be more different.

In layman's terms:

Bac works by boosting a necessary brain mechanism that isn't working properly.

Nal works by shutting down an area of brain-mechanisms in an artificial way.

Just my take on it, having been on both and my own research on them

[KatieSmiles]

Naltrexone Works!

That's a pretty dismal picture you paint eight days. I for one am not buying it.

Everyone has a choice to which journey they take, TSM for now is mine. This med is not that strong, 50 mg is a very safe dose. If in 6 months I don't see a notable difference, I will review my choice of recovery. Perhaps I will try Baclofen, perhaps I will try AA.

What works for one, may not work for another...the key is to keep trying until something does work.

[beatle]

Naltrexone Works!

eight days a week;1118776 wrote:
As far as I can get my head round it (perhaps not far!) the results may be the same, but the way of getting there couldn't be more different.

In layman's terms:

Bac works by boosting a necessary brain mechanism that isn't working properly.

Nal works by shutting down a whole area of brain-mechanisms in an artificial way.

Just my take on it, having been on both/researching the living daylights out of them/etc

I know you have researched extensively and I respect everything you say. I also thought there was a lot of good advice in the rest of the post I quoted here that I cut out for the purpose of addressing the one supposition you make that I wonder about.

As far as I know, from reading all the literature available and talking to Dr. L directly, the way baclofen works is specifically to break the connection which causes addiction... it is a specific connection, has to do with neurotransmitters, Gaba receptors, BDFN, god I don't remember what all, but it is specifically a connection that gets severed and that is when patients experience the switch point. I think this differs from how you are putting it, eight, although I see where you are getting it from. I think maybe since baclofen is naturally occurring in all mammals and those addicted don't have enough of it (for whatever reason), that adding bac helps break the addiction cycle... but nonetheless, the reason it breaks the addiction is purported to be that a connection is broken. Maybe this is what you were saying after all?

[eight days a week]

Naltrexone Works!

Sorry Katie, I didn't mean it to be dismal or discouraging. Nal and Bac are both wonder drugs against alcoholism imho, and I would strongly urge anyone to seriously look at trying them. I don't get much time to post here or even read as much as I'd like to, and sometimes I jump in with a post (book!) about one particular aspect of my feelings on the subject, which doesn't necessarily reflect how I see the whole picture. This is probably reason enough for me to try not to post serious comment at all for the time being. I've gone back and edited my post to be a bit less 'strident' btw.

The very best of luck to you

beatle;1118808 wrote: I know you have researched extensively and I respect everything you say. I also thought there was a lot of good advice in the rest of the post I quoted here that I cut out for the purpose of addressing the one supposition you make that I wonder about.

As far as I know, from reading all the literature available and talking to Dr. L directly, the way baclofen works is specifically to break the connection which causes addiction... it is a specific connection, has to do with neurotransmitters, Gaba receptors, BDFN, god I don't remember what all, but it is specifically a connection that gets severed and that is when patients experience the switch point. I think this differs from how you are putting it, eight, although I see where you are getting it from. I think maybe since baclofen is naturally occurring in all mammals and those addicted don't have enough of it (for whatever reason), that adding bac helps break the addiction cycle... but nonetheless, the reason it breaks the addiction is purported to be that a connection is broken. Maybe this is what you were saying after all?

Thank you Beatle. I long ago researched the Nal science, but haven't so much the Bac I must admit, or followed on with most of the posts on the forum since I found relief (other 'self' stuff to work on). Coming back after quite a few months it seems the forum 'consensus' on Bac has shifted quite a bit on titration and quite a few other things, which is fascinating and I wish I had the time to follow it all up.

I don't think what I wrote ruled out the 'switch' - I just didn't take the point to that conclusion (??) To be honest, I don't think about the 'switch' so much because I didn't reach a clear one myself, but understand your explanation, and if that's the prevailing thought amongst the experts (and Dr L is working closely with Dr O isn't he?) then I don't doubt that's correct, and now more clearly see the comparison you were making.

I still personally see a significant difference in the states reached under success with TSM and Bac, and in their actions in getting there, but think perhaps it's all academic, and the only thing that matters is that both can work miracles for alcoholics?

[KatieSmiles]

Naltrexone Works!

Thanks eight days

[Guest]

Naltrexone Works!

A quick update on my progress. I'm now into week 6 with the nal and still seeing significant benefits from using it. My total units for last week were my highest since starting, however this was spread over 4 drinking occasions and the total was just about the same amount I would previously consume in 1 sitting - not 4!

I've had 5 weeks of;

No hangovers
No blackouts
No cancelling/letting down anyone in my life

Worst thing that has happened has been a few mooching mornings lying in bed for an extra hour after drinking the previous evening - and that was mainly me not motivating myself to get up.

Only side effect is feeling nauseous at various times of the day, but it's nowt compared to what I experienced with Baclofen.

Been to see my GP today, Dr Chick wrote to her to say he was prescribing Naltrexone for me. I am therefore now seeking both an NHS prescription (this will reduce my costs significantly), as well as some local medical support. Naltrexone is still too specialised for my GP to advise at this point, I need to see a specialist in the form of the local Drug and Alcohol team. If/once they prescribe my GP will be able to continue.

For a moment I was quite frustrated but then I remembered it's only what cancer patients have to go through, ie they have to see a consultant before starting treatment. Annoying when I've already seen Dr Chick, but I'm prepared to be patient.

[bleep]

Naltrexone Works!

Really good to hear UK. From what I've seen with naltrexone, it is better to look at the overall progress rather than focus on specific nights, which you seem to be doing!

Good luck with your prescriptions - from what I understand, naltrexone isn't the cheapest drug in the world.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Naltrexone Works!

UKB!
YAY!
I can tell just from the tenor and tone of your posts how well you are doing. Congratulations. I am so glad that you found something that seems to be a good fit! I wonder if you are one of the ones with that particular gene, maybe? It doesn't matter, of course. What matters is your perseverance in the face of such overwhelming odds. I commend you!

I hope you'll keep this up so as to inspire others~
Again, congrats! I'm glad you're on the path!

Ne

[spuddleduck]

Naltrexone Works!

great to see its still going well uk. just one question (for now) i seem to remember you said that when you took nal you might as well have been drinking a non al drink. if thats the case why drink the al at all, is it brain training, i know you are supposed to continue drinking on this method, is that why.

[Guest]

Naltrexone Works!

spuddleduck;1120231 wrote: great to see its still going well uk. just one question (for now) i seem to remember you said that when you took nal you might as well have been drinking a non al drink. if thats the case why drink the al at all, is it brain training, i know you are supposed to continue drinking on this method, is that why.

Thanks NE that means a lot since I was feeling a bit like the naughty child around here. All I know is that my quality of life is massively improved, friend and family are commenting now on it including the fact I'm positively blooming. It's not easy though and I am having to make efforts at times, but things are a lot easier now. As for Nal all I know is that it appears to be working for me, my life is great as a result and that's all I care about. Perhaps I do have that gene, I don't know. Dr Chick wrote in his letter to my GP that Baclofen appears to be most effective in cases with underlying anxiety disorders, and in his opinion I do not show signs of such a thing. Perhaps that is key?but who knows.

Spuddleduck

Sometimes it feels like nothing lemonade even, but other times I do get that warm glow. I also still get urges and cravings but am very aware of them. The times I drink more are those when I do feel something, I simply then drink to a point where I am bored, tired, just want to go to bed. In the past blackout would have occured before I got fed up, now it's the other way around - I get fed up and stop.

I'm still drinking because the idea of getting wrecked is still there, coupled with the sneaky knowledge that I can drink and it'll be ok.

Haven't a clue what happens next though!

Oh one other thing, I have noticed my binge eating and desire for sweets, sugars, chocolate, junk food has been massively reduced. Whilst this used to be associated with my drinking, this was still present during my sober periods too. I am therefore thinking that binge-eating releases endorphins for me, I'm pretty sure I've heard chocolate does have this effect too. Since being on Nal I'm attracted by junk food, but often turn off before I even get to the takeaway or if I do buy some I'm stopping leaving it half eaten. Once again something new for me.

Wonder if I'm an endorphin junkie?

Luckily all of this isn't affecting my workouts, infact my strength and fitness plus motivation in that area is reaching high levels again.

So it's still all good for now.

[Guitarista]

Naltrexone Works!

Great to hear you smiling. Rock on UK!

:h

[Guest]

Naltrexone Works!

Just wanted to post that this evening I've been out to a bar to see a band, had one drink and that was it. Whilst I was drinking and listening to the band playing I was aware I was enjoying the warm glow of the drink, but not having that heart thumping, flushed feeling. Pre-nal I actually would often develop a red flush on my chest and neck after my first 1 or 2 drink. I no longer get that, nor the racing feeling. When I thought about how I felt I could have carried on because of thay nice warm glow, but deep down I also felt/knew I didn't NEED to carry on - I was quite ok and without the buring urgent desire to carry on.

So I didn't buy another drink, stopped by at a friend's on the way home for a coffee and chat. Got home feeling absolutely fine, I have alcohol in the house and it's sat in the cupboard.

This is the 3rd time in 7 days that I've stopped at less than 3 units. It has taken some mental input from myself, but only in the sense of being aware that I was ok and didn't have that need to carry on. Made it no battle at all to put the drink down.

[moglor]

Naltrexone Works!

Yay! Fantastic news!