Me and Bac

[Zephra]

First let me tell you a bit about myself. I am 54 and drink a bottle of red a night or more. I find it makes me lazy and wanted to change this. I feel like I am sleep walking through life. I am not living my life. I am underplaying this I am sure. I have tried to taper and can’t. I recently witnessed my Dad dyeing in the hospital at 84, a good age. He was an alcoholic and they gave him valium etc. not a pleasant way to die, withdrawals from alcohol as you are making your exit.
I am still trying to find my way out. I started on bac a few months ago. I got up to 120 but had to back down to 80 at the moment.
Symptoms
Constant ear aches
Swollen joints fingers and knees, actually constant pain and trouble walking
Feeling like I am coming off of coke, I only did a bit of coke for entertainment for a few years
It’s the feeling of clenched jaw and uneasiness in body
I just feel like shit
In Toronto I have not found a Dr. Too help with this.
I never go to Dr.’s. I am one of the new age types that only uses energy healing etc. I have felt I can’t go to my healers at the moment because Bac feels like poison in my system.
What really pisses me off is the good Dr. Always saying that there are no side effects or minimum side effects from taking this drug. For me this is pure bullshit. I am not a someone who always thinks they are sick. I am hardly ever sick. Since I have been on Bac I feel like shit.
I am still trying to continue this Bac journey. I want to stop drinking. I will go down more until the knee problem leaves. My other concern is there have been 2 people in my family that have had kidney transplants which seem unrelated to each other. My grandfather also had kidney problems. It looks like if I want to continue I will have to consult a Dr. Which I really don’t want to since this is not how I live my life.
I am not trying to turn anyone off of this, hell I still want to try. Let’s just tell the truth that some people get bad side effects from bac. I am sure I am not the only one.
z

p.s. I am not putting this up to bash Bac. I am trying to help myself and others to see if we can work around these issues.

[bleep]

Me and Bac

Zephra, it's good to see you again.

Sorry to hear you are being kicked in the teeth. It happens. Baclofen isn't always the easiest drug to take. Know that it is worth it though. There are a couple of things that can help - are you splitting your dose up so that you take it evenly through the day? Hmmm. That's just one thing, but it's the only one I can think of right now.

Baclofen never really hit my kidneys, and I went up really high. Why not visit your healers, and see what they have to say? I have found very few doctors who are aware of baclofen and its effects on the human body in the doses we suggest here. This forum will likely be your best bet for advice and help, although don't let it replace proper medical advice.

Best of luck, I hope you are able to overcome the horrid SE's and see this through. I have found it to be amazingly worth it.

[Zephra]

Me and Bac

Hey Bleep, I have adjusted my does to 10 megs every 2 hrs., prior was taking 25 meg doses.

I think your right, I should visit my healers. I just feel my energy will show up so negative.

It just pisses my off that people continue to say there are no side effects when clearer i am having many.

Thanks Bleep, I appreciate you. z

[Bill.P.]

Me and Bac

Hi Zephra,
Sorry to hear you are having these issues. I just posted about side effects in my welcome back thread but I think its relevant to you.
In terms of research, the side effect profile is very low. You take a 1000 people and control for if baclofen is the culprit and it says the side effect rate is quite low when compared with many other medications and far lower than continuing to drink. . It suggests that people that people who self-medicate with baclofen i.e. without a physician managing their health. They overreport side effects at a higher amount than the evidence suggests.
Now I do believe in evidence-based medicine. Its the only way to really muddle through in any logical way how to treat patients.
If you went to a doctor and they didnt prescribe or discuss accepted evidence-based medicine then the vast majority of people would think the doctor was a quack. I especially am amused at the doctor who was just arrested after prescribing orgasms to women to help lose weight. I think his downfall was prescribing to them his treatment of inducing orgasms in his office.

I think the overreporting of side effects can be a bit frustrating for those who dont have side effects. But I can assure you that baclofen does indeed have side effects for a select few. And if you are having side effects, then darling, you are having side effects. No one online can diagnose you otherwise as that would be impossible. And so in that argument, a person who knows yourself well (you) or someone who never met you at telling you online you dont have side effects, guess who wins that argument every time? You do, physiologically or psychologically, doesnt matter, you are having side effects. I know this from my wife who has side effects with nearly every medication. She has side effects, I have witnessed them. I have tried to allay her concerns by explaining mechanisms of action blah blah blah.
And that seems to always come as callous and disregarding of what she is feeling. So I can totally see your side of the equation on the side effect. My wife is meaner than catshit too, so she just doesn't tell me the discussion on side effects and rates of occurrence is bullshit. She literally calls me a scumbag mothertrucker lol.
So relax, you are not alone in this. Their is definitely side effects and given the vast number of people on baclofen in this chat forum. A significant number of members are going to fall into the crevasse of getting frustrated about people telling them there are no side effects when in fact statistically several members here are actively having baclofen induced side effects. You are just one of them

[ik1966]

Me and Bac


hi there,
i am reading your post and thinking isn't that drinking and taking bac make the site effects worse??
i don't have any se's s but i don't drink any more maybe people forget that?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Me and Bac

Hi, Z. Nice to see you around.

No hiding the SEs in my world, that's for sure.

Taking bac sucked. It sucked worse than just about anything I've ever done to myself at some points. I won't belabor the point. I can't stay, I'm painting, needed a cigarette break and logged on to check on what was going on... the paint is drying so I must run.

I wanted you to know

oop... gotta go. busted on the computer again! bac later. xo, and hugs Z
Ne

[Zephra]

Me and Bac

Thanks Bill P. glad you got your wife to kick your ass. I am not a cry baby and bac is really kicking my ass. What I object to is ever thing I read says there are no side effects, the good dr. constantly repeats this and that is not the case in some people.

To Ik1966, I am an alcholic I drink. I thought Bac is surpose to help with this.

I am actually thinking of posting a picture of myself for few days so you will get that I am actualy a real person. z

[Zephra]

Me and Bac

Ne, thanks for the support. I always appreciate your honesty. z

[Bill.P.]

Me and Bac

Yeah Zephra, no worries and hope you get right as rain on this stuff.
I can tell you from experience, that if you merely suggest a side effect, a significant number of patients will experience it. If you merely suggest there are no side effects, a significantly less number of patients experience it.
Its just the placebo effect in reverse and really, the long term outlook for alcoholics is quite grim. As I mentioned before a 5000% increase in suicide rate. Death from all sorts of maladies and not to mention the extremely poor quality of life as well as for those who care about them.
So I think it is probably the right thing to emphasize the low side effects as a significantly greater number will not die from alcoholism if you look at the larger numbers.

But, if you are having side effects, I agree, reading this over and over time and time again would indeed be quite maddening. "I know this is happening and these assholes keep telling me it doesnt exist".
This all is really a balancing act, helping as many people as possible who can tolerate baclofen and maybe, by kind of explaining this, my posts can help a bit of the unfortunate few who cant tolerate the side effects.
Again, if you have side effects, you are having side effects. Please dont read posts saying they do not exist and get upset. That will just upset you more and be counterproductive. Take it into context of the placebo effect and the greater good.
Bill.P

Interesting article on the placebo effect below, or in your case a failure of the reverse placebo effect

Pharmaceutical giant Naildge Amama this week was awarded FDA clearance to roll out its newest prescription wonder, Placebonol. This breakthrough drug boasts over a 30% cure rate across the board. The drug may be taken preventatively twice a day as a precaution against cancer, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, bowel irregularity, male pattern baldness and weeping genital sores, just to name a few. Further, the FDA acknowledged that absolutely no drug is more affective at treating all psychosomatic illnesses.

"The beauty is this, when you get sick you take something specially designed to cure it, and you have a 30-80% recovery rate. When you take Placebonol you don't even have to know what you are treating or how many ailments you are treating, you can simply know that it's working." Says Archie "Slick" Birmingham, marketing coordinator for the product.

Trial doctor reports, "We have been slyly using this as the test drug for all of our clinical trials for the last 35 years. The results speak for themselves." In many case studies where this test drug was administered it had comparable if not higher success rates than the drug in trial." The active ingredient, Inerticose, may sound very active, but don't worry, it's not."

Executives say the drug will retail for around $38 per day and has the lowest cost per cure rate of any drug on the market. Sources close to the situation tell that the executives have already begun living obscenely lavish lifestyles, including champagne enema's and the senseless defacing of antique art.

"This drug is going to take some faith on the part of the consumers. Without that, it's not going to go anywhere. Trust us that it is in fact doing at least something. This is the best medicine ever," added Slick, "I think I'm going to start taking it for my gout!" When asked if in fact laughter was actually the best medicine he replied "Don't know, but we're going to be doing that all the way to the bank, so I'll get back to you."

Side affects may include tooth decay and excitability in children. Not recommended for those suffering from diabetes.

[bleep]

Me and Bac

Hmmm. A member not so long ago was shot down in flames for suggesting that SE's were psychosomatic. While I agree that it may make some of them a little worse, there is no doubt that the SE's from baclofen are very, very real, and very discomforting.

What Ik said is true, at least it was for me (still is, actually!). Drinking makes the side effects from baclofen much more real. Alas, nothing to be done about that! Just a sad and grim fact. I wish I had found something to mitigate this, but the only thing I have so far discovered is to drink less. While this becomes a very real possibility after indifference, it is of no use prior to the fact. Hang in there Z.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Me and Bac

Alright, Z. I'm sorry that we have to revisit this, and I'm sorry it has to be done when you were looking for support.

You have, in fact, come to a supportive place. Despite all of the kerfuffle, I will point out that my SEs were horrendous. There is nothing inherently wrong with me that taking baclofen and finding indifference didn't take care of.

Dr. L doesn't know about the SEs. I shared mine with him only twice and on both occasions he said that I should go down. I tried. It didn't work. The lower doses were hellish for me. The high, high doses were also pretty hellish, but not as bad as the low ones. There was definitely a middle ground for a long stretch, though. When my drinking started to lessen and the bac stopped kicking me around, I found a happy-ish medium.

I know of three other people on this forum who also tempered their experiences when talking with him. We were all a little unsure why we did so. I think maybe I was nervous that he would stop treating me. Plus he kept assuring me that if I stayed at a particular dose for long enough the SEs would abate. THAT was definitely not the case. Fortunately Lo0p and a couple of others encouraged me to go up, and rather more quickly than I had been. There was not even necessarily a direct correlation to the SE abatement and a dramatic reduction in my intake of AL. That ebbed and flowed throughout the whole process.

I will add that I, too, thought of myself as being able to drink, because it's what I do, right? But the truth is that it definitely made the journey worse. (It makes everything worse, doesn't it?) So lay off the sauce for a night or two, if you can. Give yourself a little breathing room and it will make a whole world of difference.
Ignore the kerfuffle. It is what it is.
I'm really glad you posted. Thanks.
Ne

[bleep]

Me and Bac

Zephra;1119359 wrote: ...

I am actually thinking of posting a picture of myself for few days so you will get that I am actualy a real person. z

And there I was thinking you were your avatar, and had just caught this disease young...

[ik1966]

Me and Bac

hi again,
i did not want to make you feel bad, i am a alcoholic too i yust wanted to tell that i have seen that some people get worse sick and i didnt mean that all these people who drink must not take bac it was yust a suggestion i think it is great what you are doing.....me for myself i am taking antabuse to prevent me from drinking went for detox with libriumumbrella that tey call it in holland and i went af for quite a while now when i quite i didn't know about baclofen i know you whil be quite fine after a while!!! bac i am taking for the cravings i am at 175mg now and for me it's a great help yust wanted to tell you that ....hugs irini:l:l:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Me and Bac

Z-
I got distracted from what should have been my original post:

What side effects are you experiencing? How much bac are you taking? I remember that you said you are spreading them out more. When did you start experiencing debilitating side effects?
How can I help?
Hugs, sister!
Ne


Hiya, Irini!
Forgive the thread hijack, but I've got to give a shout out! It's nice to see you here sister! I'm glad to hear that you are doing so well! congratulations! :h Ne

[beatle]

Me and Bac

Zeph, I feel for you like you have NO idea.

People on this site, and off, saying most people don't have SEs from bac, and people insinuating that the SEs are psychosomatic, would appear to be full of shit (and sorely lacking in compassion), but that's just from where I'm standing.

To say a select few suffer from SEs from high-dose bac for alcoholism is the ultimate example of what I would classify as falling into the category of "full of shit".

(Unless a large-scale scentific study that charts people's progress on high-dose baclofen for alcoholism and their side effects, has been done and the results show that only a select few suffer from SEs. If only there were such a study (but I find it nigh impossible the results would show that only a select few suffer SEs.))

But if MWO is any measure (and quite frankly, what other measure is there?), then you are solidly in the majority.

Many many many many other people have suffered many many many SEs with bac, and they have actually written about them, in detail, after a period in which most people seemed to feel intimidated about mentioning them, thinking they were anomalies ... and not wanting to ruin it for others who might not try bac if they heard about the SEs.

(However, early on, a thread was started about negative side effects of bac. I have bumped that thread for you.)

Anyway, a while back people started writing freely about their SEs, to the great relief and huge benefit of other users suffering, and to all other users and potential users. (This was pretty much the case until a huge discussion about SEs being psychosomatic started, based, again, on bac users who didn't suffer major SEs (and had little compassion for those who did.) Far from being helpful, it was demoralizing and likely kept people from discussing/divulging their SEs as much -- who wants to be branded as having psychosomatic SEs? Anyway, that's an aside and a personal thorn in my side. So ignore it it (unless it comes up again).

Zeph, there has been SO MUCH discussion in these threads about SEs, much of it helpful and supportive.

I started bac after reading Dr. OA's book and the glowing stories here on MWO about how bac was magic and nobody mentioned SEs. My SEs came completely unexpectedly and most certainly were not psychosomatic. I also titrated up WAY to slowly because of the SEs -- and the lack of discussion about them on the threads here.

I believe I have suffered the worst SEs of anyone here -- I am quite sure of that. (Go ahead, anyone here, challenge me on that.) Pardon me for asking this, but have you read my thread, and many others (Ne's for example?) in which SE discussions are rampant? Many of the other personal threads on here are chock full of SEs (and support and commiseration and advice on how to deal with them). I know, it is pretty daunting to try to read through all those threads -- a huge investment of time, so maybe it's best to just start here from scratch? Or keep the negative side effects thread going? Not sure what the best way forward is.

Sorry, this is rambling.

Just know that you are so not alone, and certainly not one of a "select" few.
:l (and I do not use that emoticon lightly, as many here will attest)