TSM or Just Naltrexone?

[Noelle]

I was looking at River Pharmacy for some reason and found this:

Naltrexone for Alcoholism -- familydoctor.org

Weird.....it doesn't mention drinking while taking the Naltrexone. Maybe I have some kinda dense problem, but I still don't understand TSM, nor do I understand balcofen either. I just don't get taking a drug to stop drinking, yet one keeps drinking. It's so unbelievably contradictionary. I mean if it works for you, that's great, but I just read about so much struggling and terrible SEs. Has anyone tried taking Naltrexone/Baclofen without drinking?

[bleep]

TSM or Just Naltrexone?

Hi Noelle,

I can only speak to the baclofen side of this with any certainty. The reason one can carry on drinking with baclofen is that it makes no eventual difference to the outcome - that of reaching indifference to alcohol. This makes it a big plus for those of us who are deficient in willpower, or who can't/don't stop for other reasons.

It is contradictory only in the very short-term. I took a drug to stop drinking, and drank the whole way through it. Now, I hardly drink at all, so for me, it worked beautifully.

People have taken baclofen without drinking, and as I say, it makes little difference to the outcome. It does seem to make the SE's more bearable.

With naltrexone, I believe the theory of TSM method is that it "re-wires" the pleasure pathways of the brain, so that drinking does not give the drinker a massive sense of reward. It is this overdeveloped reward mechanism that is the cause of the drinking, so if this is removed, the drinking to excess will be removed. That's my understanding of the theory, it may be incorrect though.

[Guest]

TSM or Just Naltrexone?

Noelle;1120469 wrote: I was looking at River Pharmacy for some reason and found this:

Naltrexone for Alcoholism -- familydoctor.org

Weird.....it doesn't mention drinking while taking the Naltrexone. Maybe I have some kinda dense problem, but I still don't understand TSM, nor do I understand balcofen either. I just don't get taking a drug to stop drinking, yet one keeps drinking. It's so unbelievably contradictionary. I mean if it works for you, that's great, but I just read about so much struggling and terrible SEs. Has anyone tried taking Naltrexone/Baclofen without drinking?

Noelle

Here's how TSM works in very simple terms. Naltrexone blocks endorphins which are the feel good chemicals often released when you drink. The stuff that makes me feel excited, want to party and carry on on my binges. What happens when you drink on Naltrexone is that reaction is reduced or even eliminated. So basically when you drink you are not getting that initial "buzz", this is I guess why I'm only drinking a fraction of what I used to pre-nal because I'm just not getting the 'hit' as such - which is what tended to drive most of my binges.

So you carry on drinking on naltrexone and over time you and your brain learns that drinking alcohol does not equate to an endorphin high (or buzz), and you break the link in your brain - that pathway is eliminated (extinguished is the term often used). Result is you gain control over alcohol, it doesn't bother you. I like to think of it as Pavlov's Dog's in reverse (he trained dogs to salivate at the ring of a bell after always giving them food when he rang the bell - eventually they'd salivate just by hearing the bell). Basically you learn with repeated drinking that you simply will not get a buzz, so you don't crave the stuff. The association just isn't there.

Some Doctors don't understand how to apply TSM and prescribe Naltrexone along with abstenance. This is one reason my Dr is insisting I see a(nother) specialist - she needs to make sure I'm getting the proper guidance from someone who knows more than she does.

So basically if you don't drink on it you do not get to learn that you won't get the buzz from it, so the learning pathway isn't set up and you never lose that association.

Hope this makes sense I've put it in non-scientific terms, it's probably not accurate but it's how I understand it and it keeps me following TSM! Wikipedia has a very good entry if you search for TSM.

Sinclair Method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[spuddleduck]

TSM or Just Naltrexone?

thanks bleep and uk, that puts it very clearly, ive been asking myself the same questions