Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

turboscottomatic;1144372 wrote: If I never have another bite of broccoli in my life, I'll be okay. Though, I can't lie: I'll kind of miss it. I like broccoli.


I don't know what it feels like to be a normal person. I haven't spent a day of my life as a normal person. But I think this is how normal people feel about alcohol. I'd like to feel that way too.

T

Brilliant, Turbo! I don't like broccoli. Too many other ways to get what I need to spend time eating broccoli. Unless the situation demands it, but how often does a situation demand, for instance, broccoli. If it made me sick I don't think I'd eat it at all. But I'm not there yet, so I'm going to sit tight with I don't particularly like it and I can get what I need someplace else, for a change.

Me neither, but I don't want to be particularly normal now. Wouldn't know where to start. Not that anybody ever feels normal, I don't think. I dunno if I'll ever feel normal about alcohol. I know it doesn't run my life anymore. woop-woop!

Congratulations! You're almost there, I suspect. THERE is a very, very nice place to live.
You're welcome, though spewing is not my favorite verb... :H
:l
Ne

[Bruunhilde]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

Hope you guys don't mind me pitching in here, but I wanted to contribute that I would compare a food you crave like chocolate or chips instead of something you don't. I can't say I have never craved brocolli, but that was only when I was on a diet and it was about all I could eat. BTW, did you know eating a pound of brocolli a day causes intense flatulence?

So for me, it would be about getting my alcohol cravings down to my chocolate cravings level, which varies by day or time of month. Murph, I'm sure you can relate to this even if Ne can't.

Most days I can have one hunk off the chocolate bar, rarely I do really want more and if I really do I have it.

Regarding indifference, I'm indifferent to AL all day long until about four o'clock...

[Lo0p]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

It would take more than an intervention to keep me from eating broccoli.

I've never been in a fight in my life. But if someone told me I couldn't eat broccoli...there would be bloodshed.

[bleep]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

turboscottomatic;1144372 wrote:
I don't go into a panic if I don't have broccoli in the house.

I don't consider a dinner a bad dinner because there was no broccoli at the end.

I don't wake up in the morning regretting something I did last night from eating too much broccoli.

I don't try to hide my broccoli consumption from other people.

I don't worry that my life will be sadder and shorter because I eat broccoli every day.

And finally, I don't worry that people will stop loving me because I am a hopeless brocoholic.

A great analogy, unfortunately you chose broccoli as your substitute! I consider a meal with broccoli a travesty, I'd regret it for weeks if I ate some, I would never admit publicly to having eaten it and my life would feel infinitely sadder should I actually eat it.

It sounds great though Turbo. You can't be far off. I'm really pleased for you.

[beatle]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

Just getting caught up here. LOL and HS.

Amazing thoughts.

Can't wait to participate. Although, technically, I could, I think.

[turboscottomatic]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

Sounds like a few broccoli haters in da house. Just typing broccoli gives me half a boner. Uh-oh. Better stop typing broccoli before things get out of hand. Don't get me started bout what happens when I eat some......



T

[Lo0p]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

Broccoli makes everything about me harder.

[hangingoninFL]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

I bumped this thread because its topics are really the issues that I am currently struggling with. Although I had first thought I was happy with moderation, I'm really not. Moderation, for me, still means I drink as often as I used to, just not nearly as much. But as I travel down that road, I realize that it's not enough. I want to be able to get back into a workout routine, to drop about 20 pounds. That's very hard to do when I still want to crack open a beer most days when 5:00 rolls around. I want to be able to go out to dinner and not have to order alcohol, to go to important functions or social events and not have to head to the bar. So, I keep asking myself, is that really moderation?

[LadyLush]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

Hangingon,

I thought too I wanted to moderate but I know I can't. The old routine would be open the wine when I get home and nothing gets done. I can't do that anymore if I really want my life back. The craving may be gone but the habit persists. But habits can be broken and that is my challenge now. Baclofen has done wonders for me but I have to be the one in control and Baclofen has given me that control back.

Hang in There,

I know exactly how you feel!

LL:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

Hey, hanging!
Funny you should bring this up right now. I got a PM from someone yesterday--(I confused her with you initially!)--in the same quandary.
The idea of modding, though enticing, scares me. I find it absolutely effortless to not drink, or even think about it. Until I do! Which is about once a month. And then I struggle and agonize, have a drink (or drunk) and get over it.
I'm pretty clear that mine is hormone and stress related, since abstinence was and is again my goal... I'm looking forward to being able to manage those on my own without booze.

What are your thoughts about the next step for you? And modding in general?

[hangingoninFL]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

NE, I don't know what my next step is. I think about trying BAC again, but unless I could take a 2 month leave of absence from work, I can't do it. I am mentally incapacitated while on high dose BAC which is probably why I could never titrate high enough to hit the switch (my job requires a high level of mental ability/concentration).

[hangingoninFL]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

I should also mention that I have been using Antabuse to try to force myself to be abstinent for a good part of the week. It works for most of the week, but by Friday I find myself unable to hold back, and yes, I suffer the red face, palpitations, etc from drinking on Antabuse.

[Dave_]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

I was 6 months al free then I relapsed. I was on 30 mg of Bac for that period to help with cravings. I went to my doctors after spending some time here and asked if I could increase my doses of bac. He had never taken someone past 100mg before but having read alot about it he was willing to try with a suitable candidate which is luckily me. I have been going up 20 mg a week and am currently at 120mg a day. The se's are ok but I fall alseep at all hours of the day in a snap which is not good but I hope that passes. I also get dizzy from time to time but all in all the se's are manageable.

My question being how do I know if i reach indifference if I am not currently drinking? Do I have to drink to know if I crave it or not? Am I going to have to remain at high doses forever? What are the common se's at really high doses like 250+mgs? Do you just fall asleep everywhere?

[bleep]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

Hey Dave,

The SE's are different for everyone. I only started getting SE's somewhere around the 200's iirc. Great news that your doc is prepared to go the whole way.

The best judge of this would be you, I suppose. How do you feel when you think of having a beer, or whatever your poison is? Does it sound good, a pleasant way to pass the day, or are you just meh, not right now, I'm busy?

It's a bit trickier, there's no doubt.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Abstinence, Moderation and Indifference

hangingoninFL;1161606 wrote: NE, I don't know what my next step is. I think about trying BAC again, but unless I could take a 2 month leave of absence from work, I can't do it. I am mentally incapacitated while on high dose BAC which is probably why I could never titrate high enough to hit the switch (my job requires a high level of mental ability/concentration).
I have had a bit of a change in perspective about the HDB thing in the last month or so, Hanging... There's enough evidence that Low-Dose-Bac really helps curb craving. I suspect it's most effective when coupled with a commitment to abstinence and some therapy. But either way, the medicine works in our brains.

There's also some pretty compelling anecdotes around here, and two I know from outside of MWO, that HDB has a rather lasting affect on people's ability to abstain after the fact. I know of one other who is moderating. Only one of these thinks bac is the reason, but I have my suspicions!
[Needless to say, I believe combatting the disease from a chemical-balance perspective is imperative for success for most of us, and the following is based on that position.]


You can use bac as a tool, not as a miracle (which for me, it has been just to be clear.)

If you didn't take it slow and steady, you can do that. You can start low, and I bet dollars to donuts you find some relief pretty quickly...
Might be worth a shot.
L-Glut is working for wanttobesober. Several people are using 5HTP to manage depression (including me.) I stick by my recommendations about xanax for people who are taking HDB. The more I read about it, the better it seems as a solution to any underlying anxiety that fuels the need/beast.
Sleep disruption contributes a great deal to the mental fuzziness and lack of clarity. Managing that well can reduce the other.
Just some thoughts, Hanging! Hang in there.

Dave_;1161657 wrote:
My question being how do I know if i reach indifference if I am not currently drinking? Do I have to drink to know if I crave it or not? Am I going to have to remain at high doses forever? What are the common se's at really high doses like 250+mgs? Do you just fall asleep everywhere?

No, I don't think you need to drink. i have a good friend who found indifference and had been sober for months. Plus he'd been sober for years, in general, but had binges that were debilitating. So no, drinking isn't necessary! I'll try to find what he wrote to me about how he knew.
I'm quite comfortable at 200mg, and pretty comfortable with taking it for the foreseeable future. I suspect I'll be able to go down when I'm comfortable with the idea of not drinking to manage my stress.
The SEs completely abate, Dave. You'll go up, and then move back down the ladder to find a comfortable place.
I'm really glad you were able to get some help and some relief! Sorry about the relapse, though. ugh.