TimberTim is in the House!

[ignominious]

TimberTim is in the House!

:H We've got Drs that deny there will be any significant SEs and now we have Doc's saying that a 10mg dose will hit you hard!

Whatever, right? You guys can put up with a bit of discomfort if it comes along if you know that it's going to work. That was the main thing for me, having tried every other route to sobriety I was now taking 'snake oil'. The thing is; it had proven that it could have a profound effect on my personality and I was prepared to give it a chance, come what may. That made it fairly easy for me, if I had had more doubts about its possibilities I would have been more sidetracked by the SEs. Amazingly the stuff actually works!!!!

Although you've made the decision to go ahead Tim, I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I've said before that I don't envy people who have a job when taking a course of baclofen but keep going its worth it.

And a last thought: As a last moment, 'pre giving up' gambit, take a few days off work and take an extra 100mg!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

TimberTim is in the House!

Same doctor, Ig. And that makes it all that more rich, doesn't it? :H

[beatle]

TimberTim is in the House!

Hi Tim, I haven't pitched in since my welcome to you when you joined.

(Hope you noticed I was the very first member here to welcome you, and with some spiffy emoticons, too. Okay enough self-aggrandizement... sorry, it just feels so good)

I do indeed have a large tool chest (it's a chest, not a box... why does that seem to have sexual innuendos for me? I think this fruition issue is making a fixated porno queen out of me) with all kinds of sleep aids, both drugs and natural remedies. i'd call it an arsenal, I guess. And pity I've been ignoring it of late. Not really, but not taking it seriously enough. It has to do with my continuing drinking, though -- enough asides.

I can't repeat my arsenal here and, unfortunately, this site's search function is crap (or I am crap at using it, although I use search function a thousand times a day in my work), so I can't find links for you without using inordinate amounts of time -- and even then I am not guaranteed results.

Is there is anyone who can find those links and post them for Tim, Iwould really appreciated itlease:

I don't want Tim or anyone else to suffer insomnia more than tey have to.

That said, I am a failure at sleeping atm.:upset:

[TimberTim]

TimberTim is in the House!

Yes, thanks beatle. I remember. Would be interested in see your medicine cabinet.

Something happened this afternoon. Remember, I was all wacked out yesterday due to lack of sleep and bac SE's. I was so miserable I wanted to reverse my titration to a lower dose.

This morning I got a call from NE (thanks NE) who talked some sense into me. In addition, I got all the encouragement from you all (thanks, you all). So, it started out only incrementally better than yesterday. I may have gotten 4 hours of sleep, so I wasn't so crabby. The point is that I was still having some significant SE's.

About 12:30 I layed down to take a nap and slept for an hour. And I'm taking the kind of sleep where you don't even move. It felt like I had just layed down a minute ago.

I woke up and had a cup of coffee. And then I noticed it...my head was clear. What the hell? I sleep for 1 hour and my head is clear. So I slammed 40mg and finished my coffee. An hour later, I still barely felt that 40mg boost and I'm thinking " what would 8 hours of sleep do for me".

So, for me, sleep is an important part of the path that we are on. I have been testing some sleep aids and while they work to one degree or another, they all leave me feeling kind of hung over the next day. Look forward to learning about your experiences.

[ignominious]

TimberTim is in the House!

ignominious;1127274 wrote: :H We've got Drs that deny there will be any significant SEs and now we have Doc's saying that a 10mg dose will hit you hard!


Ne/Neva Eva;1127282 wrote: Same doctor, Ig. And that makes it all that more rich, doesn't it? :H

Am I right in presuming that you're talking about Dr Levin, Ne?

When did this 180 degree happen? It wasn't on my watch and was it made public knowledge on these threads?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm surprised that I missed such a complete 'about face'.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

TimberTim is in the House!

ignominious;1127326 wrote: Am I right in presuming that you're talking about Dr Levin, Ne?

When did this 180 degree happen? It wasn't on my watch and was it made public knowledge on these threads?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm surprised that I missed such a complete 'about face'.

Yes. It's all here, and it's not exactly an about face. Dr. L has always had a protocol that was set to avoid SEs. His point, at least my understanding of it, is that with a slow enough titration schedule, one can do just that. I don't happen to agree, personally, about the fact that one can avoid SEs altogether. Insomnia, for instance, is one that almost all of us have experienced. The degree varies, for sure, from person to person. But sleep disruption seems to be pretty universal.

Dr. L has slowed his titration even more than when we started. He still prescribes 20mg/week increases, for example, but the start is a good deal lower and slower than it was. I think I understand the motivation, but again, don't see eye to eye with the doctor.

I'm really glad the nap helped, Tim. It's amazing what a bit of sleep and a bit of time can do. I, myself, can't express how much of a difference it made to have people to rely on and turn to, too. I'm glad you did that. :goodjob: (one of my fave emotis. Have to remember to use that more often.)

In my experience I found that more sleep didn't necessarily mean better rest. And sleep was just hard to come by, period, for a stretch. Rest assured it does get better though, and it doesn't take too long for most of us. Now, when I sleep for more than 5 hours it's annoying and gets in the way! When I sleep for more than 6, I'm fairly put out about it!!! A far cry from when I nursed a hang over in bed for the better part of a day, or even thought a good night's sleep was 10 hours of restless, dehydrated, yuckiness. You know? I know your disease didn't manifest in the same way mine did (I was a daily drinker) but it's still the same beast.

You've got it caged, you know. Now you're just sealing the deal.

Speaking of snoozing, it's way past my bedtime. Looking forward to hearing how the night went for you!
:l
Ne

The sleep stuff can be found here, as can info D about Dr. Levin. The Dr. Levin threads are at least a couple of months old, and may be confusing though.
The sleep threads are also older, but the info remains the same. I'll take a minute to see if I can't find some, but look under the general forum menu for Holistic Healing or something. You'll find A LOT of info about sleep aids. Too much, maybe! :H but it's all there!
xo

Sorry to add to any confusion.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

TimberTim is in the House!

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ead-48116.html

[Ne/Neva Eva]

TimberTim is in the House!

Here's a great one from beatle related directly to our disease:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f6...ned-46772.html

I'd forgotten about it, glad to have it pulled bac into circulation!

I couldn't find any other sleep related ones quickly, but they're here, for sure! Also, you'll find no end to the suggestions, often contradictory! :H about this one.

[beatle]

TimberTim is in the House!

Thanks for that link, Ne, helpful, but I don't see any of my contributions in there, just bits and pieces of people's thoughts and advice. imho, I believe I have summed up things in several places, with lists of the supps and how they work. And how I experienced them. This is the result of extensive research and personal experience. (These days I make word documents of that kind of stuff, but then I did not.) So it would be great if someone linked up to that... Longshot's thread might be a good place to start.

[beatle]

TimberTim is in the House!

I feel for you Tim, more than you can imagine. I hope someone comes in and figures out the link thing.

But if you look through my thread, bleep's thread, and Longshot's thread, it should all be in there somewhere. I know it's a lot of sifting to do, but you don't have to read every post.

In my experience, the natural sleep aids and calming aids work wonderfully (in my carefully worked out protocols, of course:H) afer you go AF. I had an aversion to sleeping pills, for good reason, and I found my own way out of sleeplessness through natural remedies. This was especially important in the days and weeks after detox (or sobering up, or however you do it).

I don't find the holistic sleeping aids work as well whilst drinking. I think they get overshadowed by the effect of booze on the body, and can't do the subtle things they do with alcohol in the system. And I don't mean that the cumulative effect is subtle. I reall found relief from insomnia post detox with these non-drug methods. It was far more than subtle.

[TimberTim]

TimberTim is in the House!

I slept!

I slept!:thumbs: I took 2mg of Lunesta (Eszopiclone) last night at bed time and I got a solid 7 hours of sleep. Yes, this is a prescription drug and does have some side effects. I do feel a little groggy this morning, but that's not unusual. What I do feel is rested.

I will be trying some of the additional herbal remedies that have been suggested and I will get back to you all with the results.

[bleep]

TimberTim is in the House!

The link thing takes an inordinate amount of work because of the horrible inefficiencies of this site's search engine. Just read around Tim - you've got insomnia ffs, what else are you going to do On that note, I must add that I have nothing helpful to suggest with regards the insomnia. Nothing seems to work with me. The only thing that has ever helped has been to try and change my attitude and embrace being awake so much. Not so easy to do sometimes, but it definitely helps if you can do it.

I didn't realise Levin was aware of the SE's either Ne, I was under the impression his titration made taking baclofen "as water" or have I misremembered something somewhere. Going super slow is, I think, terrible, terrible advice. We have seen, time and again, that baclofen is not an intuitive drug. strange things happen with it that somebody who has not taken it would never be expected to know or even guess. The longer you fuck around with it, the longer you prolong the torture. It was this thought, Tim, that made a few of us suggest just going up quicker because you were battling, and it is something to bear in mind.

[bleep]

TimberTim is in the House!

Cross posted there...

Well done on finding a solution. You must feel fantastic right now?!

[TimberTim]

TimberTim is in the House!

bleep;1127575 wrote: The link thing takes an inordinate amount of work because of the horrible inefficiencies of this site's search engine. Just read around Tim - you've got insomnia ffs, what else are you going to do On that note, I must add that I have nothing helpful to suggest with regards the insomnia. Nothing seems to work with me. The only thing that has ever helped has been to try and change my attitude and embrace being awake so much. Not so easy to do sometimes, but it definitely helps if you can do it.

I didn't realise Levin was aware of the SE's either Ne, I was under the impression his titration made taking baclofen "as water" or have I misremembered something somewhere. Going super slow is, I think, terrible, terrible advice. We have seen, time and again, that baclofen is not an intuitive drug. strange things happen with it that somebody who has not taken it would never be expected to know or even guess. The longer you fuck around with it, the longer you prolong the torture. It was this thought, Tim, that made a few of us suggest just going up quicker because you were battling, and it is something to bear in mind.

Thanks bleep,
I am considering it. I might wait till Friday so I can have the weekend to deal with the SE's. As always, you folks are full of good advice; or full of something; I haven't decided which.

[taw]

TimberTim is in the House!

That is usually when I bump mine dose up...weekends when I don't have my son....just in case...worth considering, Tim....

Thanks, NE...thought if was fitting considering my thoughts and patterns!!