Indifference

[mario]

Indifference

Thanks uk i will pass that on :-)

[redhead77]

Indifference

UK, I'll be back later to answer what I can (which isn't much), it may be a couple of days. I have a busy start to the week. I apologize for the swearing and crass response earlier. I went to bed and had to get up and edit. I sometimes forget where I am.

Teddy, sorry about the hijack of your thread. But it may have needed hijacking at this point. I wish you would consider your words and whether you know much about the topic in question, before you blatantly disregard people. Your response to taw was rude. It was an uneducated response. If you don't know much about a topic, maybe do a little research, before offering you opinion. I believe I read you label someone as arrogant on a different thread. This would be like the pot calling the kettle black. I doubt anyone will forget you existed. If you want to play nice, and share your infinite wisdom in ways that are helpful, I'm sure it will be well received.

[Guest]

Indifference

redhead77;1130113 wrote: UK, I'll be back later to answer what I can (which isn't much), it may be a couple of days. I have a busy start to the week. I apologize for the swearing and crass response earlier. I went to bed and had to get up and edit. I sometimes forget where I am.

Teddy, sorry about the hijack of your thread. But it may have needed hijacking at this point. I wish you would consider your words and whether you know much about the topic in question, before you blatantly disregard people. Your response to taw was rude. It was an uneducated response. If you don't know much about a topic, maybe do a little research, before offering you opinion. I believe I read you label someone as arrogant on a different thread. This would be like the pot calling the kettle black. I doubt anyone will forget you existed. If you want to play nice, and share your infinite wisdom in ways that are helpful, I'm sure it will be well received.

I didn't see any swearing!!!!

This is all good because we are sharing information and ideas, so as to help each other as well as others out there. Baclofen and Nal between them appear to hold a lot of answers for a lot of problems. AND I have an appointment with an NHS Doctor associated with the Drugs & Alcohol team now........oooohhh.

[Theodore]

Indifference

Eeeeeeeeeek! Yep you?re right Redhead- about the opiate thing. I should never have said that, because I know absolutely nothing about the subject. I?m am not the only academic/student who pontificates and makes arrogant statements about things they don?t understand- just think about Richard Dawkins banging on about theology in The God Delusion. But that was really a very stupid, and yes, dangerous thing to say. Sorry taw- my comment was not directed at you, but, at the doctors who gave you that information- and well- sounds like they were right- they do know something after all- who would have guessed?
I think I know where the problem lies. I said my article was about ?baclofen and its synergistic use with qi gong and acupuncture.? That is misleading- it?s not about using qi gong with baclofen; it?s about drawing on the theory underlying qi gong practice to explain the mechanisms of Bac?s actions. Bleep is absolutely right in saying that qi gong etc are completely unnecessary (more or less) once you?ve found indifference with Baclofen. But that?s why I should not really have posted on this site: I can?t be specific enough. I never thought I would cause confusion because you are all too stupid to understand what I?m saying, but, because when I?m writing quickly about theories that only I have seen, and responding to several questions at one time, I am likely to say stupid and misleading things. I can?t expect everyone to have read the science around these things- I?m a student and have lots of spare time on my hands.
As to the advice I left on Rich?s wall- I can understand why Murph, Ne and Bleep thought that was based on my own theory, because of the wording- namely the word ?synergistically?- but in fact you don?t have to have read or understood my ?theory,? nor even believe it actually exists, to appreciate that is sound advice. ?Synergy? is actually a very common, if pretentious and annoying, word in Traditional Chinese Medicine. It just means that one method i.e. acupuncture does not work isolation- you have to use them together. This is now fairly widely accepted, and in the US, where the situation is more progression, yoga, acupuncture etc are commonly used in detox/rehab centres- probably in the UK as well (dunno). Ameisen used some of them I think- they didn?t work- for good reasons, but he talks approvingly about them. Again, I?d recommend the book, Healing without Freud or Prozac, written, as I said, by Dr David Servan Shreiber, the scientist who?s quoted on the front cover of The End of My Addiction- he is an expert on integrative East West medicine. Either way- these methods won?t do Rich, or anyone else, any harm, so long as he pursues them along side conventional treatment.
In person I am, I hope, likable and charming, and I try to listen carefully to what other people have to say before asserting my own opinion. But I doubt any of that comes across on here. I probably sound like a precious little bastard (and believe me I can be that as well). So, sorry Murph. I am a hypocrite.
I assure you all that my research is genuine, and I should be able to tell you more about it, and perhaps even break my anonymity in a few months. There are no guarantees- someone somewhere along the line may say it?s a pile of shit, but I doubt that will happen, and I?ve had some pretty good feedback so far, from people who should know what they?re talking about.
I will say though that Dr Chick does know what he?s talking about- I?ve spoken to him at length, and I think he?s convincing more and more doctors all the time that Baclofen is the way to go.

[Theodore]

Indifference

I hope we can all be friends now. I don't like to fight. And I do, as I have said very much respect the advice of all the senior members. They more a lot more than me, about a lot of things. And it really is very generous and kind hearted that they regularly contribute come on to this site a dispense good advice, long after they themselves have found indifference And bleep is right- the advice on here does constitute a kind of expertise. But there are different kinds of experts, and that is why I say, listen to advice on here and to that of the scientists- that's why I did, and it worked for. But Bleep, a simple question, 'what does TCM have to do with Baclofen might have sufficed? There was no need to brand what I've said as 'absolute nonsense. I am not going to upload an 8,000 word article, which draws on over 50 scinetific sources without citations- that would could get me in to a lot of trouble. And besides, I am, I hope, altrusitic, but it is my article- I did the research and I do want to take some credit for it.

[Theodore]

Indifference

Anywhere- it's very reassuring to know there are so many clever, educated people on this site.

[bleep]

Indifference

Theodore;1130559 wrote: ...
I should never have said that, because I know absolutely nothing about the subject.
...

That hasn't stopped you from posting in any other area, nor did it in this one.

Theodore;1130559 wrote:
But that was really a very stupid, and yes, dangerous thing to say.
...

That hasn't stopped you from posting in any other area, nor did it in this one.

Theodore;1130559 wrote:
But that?s why I should not really have posted on this site: I can?t be specific enough.
...

That hasn't stopped you from posting in any other area, nor did it in this one.

Theodore;1130559 wrote:
I can?t expect everyone to have read the science around these things- I?m a student and have lots of spare time on my hands.

You will find that just about everyone here has read every scientific thing ever printed about about baclofen, which is largely why we are calling bullshit.
Theodore;1130559 wrote:
...
I probably sound like a precious little bastard (and believe me I can be that as well).
...

I think you meant precocious, and yes, you do.

Theodore;1130559 wrote:
I assure you all that my research is genuine, and I should be able to tell you more about it, and perhaps even break my anonymity in a few months. There are no guarantees- someone somewhere along the line may say it?s a pile of shit, but I doubt that will happen, and I?ve had some pretty good feedback so far, from people who should know what they?re talking about.
...

I'm calling it a pile of shit. There's some of your first feedback. Use it to move forward with.
Theodore;1130566 wrote: ...
But Bleep, a simple question, 'what does TCM have to do with Baclofen might have sufficed? There was no need to brand what I've said as 'absolute nonsense. I am not going to upload an 8,000 word article, which draws on over 50 scinetific sources without citations- that would could get me in to a lot of trouble. And besides, I am, I hope, altrusitic, but it is my article- I did the research and I do want to take some credit for it.

What is TCM?

Again, I think you overestimate the scientific community and the attention they are paying you. They aren't waiting in the wings for you to post a theory that doesn't give them sufficient credit so that they can swoop on you and destroy all your hard work. You aren't even able to give as an outline of this theory. You will never get any credit if you won't reveal your theory, and I say again - if your theory concerns high dose baclofen, this is perhaps the best place in the world to unveil it.

You promised in a PM that you weren't going to post anymore. What happened?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Indifference

I echo bleep's thoughts. Every single one of them.

If you'd like to participate here, I highly recommend you stop offering advice, and start sitting quietly and reflecting a bit.

I know what synergy means. I don't think you're precious or precocious. I think you're possibly dangerous. This makes me very, very alert. For my own sake and for the sake of people who are participating or lurking here.

Whatever you decide to do, I call bull shit on your research, your paper and your theories. Back them up, or be quiet about them.

Sincerely,
Karen

[Theodore]

Indifference

'You promised in a PM that you weren't going to post anymore. What happened?''- I realised I had made a mistake, said some foolish things, and wanted to apologise to you and the other members.
''Again, I think you overestimate the scientific community and the attention they are paying you. They aren't waiting in the wings for you to post a theory that doesn't give them sufficient credit so that they can swoop on you and destroy all your hard work''- No I'm not, and no they're not- only a couple of scientists have actually read what I written, and it may only constitute a modest contribution to what we already know. The most important work has already been done- Baclofen works- you know that, I know that. But, who knows, it is possible that my article may just help somebody and expand on the theory of Baclofen's effectiveness, just a tiny little bit- stranger things have happened.
??if your theory concerns high dose baclofen, this is perhaps the best place in the world to unveil it.??- well, that?s not entirely true- there is a risk of plagiarism, and nobody on this site is, as far as I know, in a position to peer review and assess my work. I?m not too bothered about ruffling scientist?s feathers- they are, as you say, unlikely to care at this point. I just don?t want to discredit myself and loose the opportunity to do more research- because I quite like what I?ve written- some of the other idiots at Edinburgh University like it too, but they?re not discerning scientists, and experts in Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) like you.
''You aren't even able to give as an outline of this theory''- I disagree- I think I have already given you some idea of what I'm talking about.
''I'm calling it a pile of shit. There's some of your first feedback. Use it to move forward with''- Do you not think it interesting that, if you look back over my posts, you will not find one single expletive directed at you or any other member. I regularly compliment, thank and encourage you, and apologise for my own mistakes, though I find your insults upsetting. I am not trying to step on your toes, but as I have said, I am entitled to my own opinion, especially when it is expressed on my own thread.
??I think you meant precocious, and yes, you do??- Yes, that?s what I said. And yes, that is another spelling mistake. I?m sure you will find many more if you trawl through my threads again, quoting from them selectively. Would you like me to do the same for you?
??You will find that just about everyone here has read every scientific thing ever printed about about baclofen, which is largely why we are calling bullshit??- apart from Murph- a chief contributor to this site, who has by his own admission ??never read?? the The End of My Addiction. But, and this is a genuinely interested question, have you read the full article written by Dr Ameisen about the function of GHB in alcohol addiction. It was published in Alcohol and Alcoholism (Chick?s journal) and may be quite difficult to come by unless you have access to a university library.
This is my post. Perhaps, if you don?t like it you can move elsewhere. I?m sure you will have no trouble convincing other members that my ideas are ?a pile of shit? and warning them that I am ?not an alcoholic, let alone a researcher?? (if we are quoting private messages) because you a frequently the first and last person to post on every single thread on this site.
TCM- means Traditional Chinese Medicine (as I have said several times before)
But that was really a very stupid, and yes, dangerous thing to say.- ?? That hasn't stopped you from posting in any other area, nor did it in this one.?? Some may argue that
??Concerning Dr Chick - he prescribes it in ineffective doses. Very few people will benefit from 100mg's of baclofen. I didn't even get side effects until the mid 200's and so if I had gone the Dr Chick route, I would still be a hopeless alcoholic right now??- is ?very stupid and dangerous thing to say?- it is factually incorrect- 50% of Chick?s patients find indifference through his treatment- that is not ??very few??- that is, well, 50%- and more still receive some relief from their cravings. What you say may be considered dangerous because it encourages people to contravene medical advice and ignore the recommendations of a neuroscientist and alcohol specialist. As I said to Murph, that is, in some cases, good advice, but I would add this one simple rejoinder: consult Dr Chick first before taking your treatment in to your own hands. Again, I?m not judging- I have, as you know, said some silly things myself.
??I would still be a hopeless alcoholic right now??- If I were to be unkind I might say that little has changed- you are still a hopeless alcoholic- a dry drunk as they say in the AA- stubborn, close minded, arrogant, and aggressive. But I am kind, so I will assume you are actually a pleasant and intelligent man, who has just had his feathers ruffled by an admittedly precocious twenty four year old student.

[Theodore]

Indifference

The problem is you guys rarely call me out on anything specific, or ask any intelligent directed questions. Regardless of what I say you come back with the same kind of response, fuck you, you’re full of shit etc etc. I did try to send Murphy some scientific information about what I’d posted on Rich’s wall but he refused to read it. I also sent you something similar Ne. If you found that information insufficient or wanted more, why not just ask? You tell me. How is it possible to reason with people, who repeatedly call your bluff, swear at you, demand scientific information, and then refuse to listen to anything you say, and read anything you have sent them. You tell me. How is it possible? No doubt, Murph will be a long in a minute to tell me that my dick’s too small, and that Dr Chick is the Devil incarnate.
If there is any specific information about which you would like some scientific evidence- and I do not mean my entire article then- by all means ask me and I will duly provide it. I don’t see why I should, because having read every piece of scientific information every written on Baclofen, you already know everything, or at the very least you could get off your asses and find it, but I will.
As for my advice- it has rarely, if ever, diverged from this simple instruction- consult Dr Chick first before taking your treatment into your own hands.

[Theodore]

Indifference

I will return to this site in one week’s time. If, at that point I have received any reasonable questions or comments- preferable from someone other than you three, who are overbearing and bullying and probably scare off other people- then I will respond. If not- we’ll just have to wait and see who has the last laugh. Good luck.

[Theodore]

Indifference

And by the way, if you 3 look back over your responses you will find that you are the only one's who replies do not contain a trace of sceintific infomation. UK Blonde, Redhead, and Taw have all said intelligent and reasonable things- and duly corrected me when I needed correcting. For this I reason- I do sometimes find it rather worrying that you three are the chief contrubuters to this site, and regualry, as I have said, encourage people to disredgard medical advice.

Good bye.

[ignominious]

Indifference

Hi Theo

I think you've been treated rather harshly myself but as you say the boards do get dominated by a few characters and then there is a great deal of pressure to play by their rules or not at all.

No comment on the views expressed here but would be interested in seeing OA article on GHB and alcohol.

[tiptronic_ct]

Indifference

Oh, FFS... Not again. Can we not learn to live in better harmony or communicate differently? This kind of thing makes me lose my bounce.

[tiptronic_ct]

Indifference

I'm not even going to bother reading back to get the full picture.