Indifference

[terryk]

Indifference

Theodore;1130591 wrote: have you read the full article written by Dr Ameisen about the function of GHB in alcohol addiction. It was published in Alcohol and Alcoholism (Chick’s journal) and may be quite difficult to come by unless you have access to a university library.
ignominious;113063 wrote:

No comment on the views expressed here but would be interested in seeing OA article on GHB and alcohol.

if you're talking about this:

Alcohol Alcohol. 2007 Sep-Oct;42(5):506. Epub 2007 Aug 1. Gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB)-deficiency in alcohol-dependence? Ameisen O.

Comment on Alcohol Alcohol. 2007 Mar-Apr;42(2):158-60. Alcohol Alcohol. 2005 Mar-Apr;40(2):147-50.

PMID: 17673481 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text

it's not much of an article and it's freely available (no university library needed):


Alcohol and Alcoholism | Oxford Journals

baclofen works for me but I don't buy *many* of ameisen's theories, like baclofen has no side effects, like anxiety is the root cause of alcoholism, and this ghb musing to name a few.

-tk

[Lo0p]

Indifference

Ditto all 3 points tk just made. I'm on my droid and at work so I can't check it out but Alcohol and Alcoholism is Chick's journal...?

[ignominious]

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Gotta say that I was expecting a bit more. I've seen the extract before but when I reached the full article it was the same length! Thanks for posting the link Terry.

Not sure about the anxiety link to alcoholism. I've taken some personality tests in the past that have indicated that I didn't have any anxiety issues. Having come through the baclofen cure, I am now convinced myself that I have an underlying anxiety disorder that I hadn't recognised and that the tests were completed by my alter ego!

[redhead77]

Indifference

Ukblonde;1130060 wrote: No all I've read is how Naltrexone works, and how to apply the Sinclair Method. The best explaination I've seen so far is that Nal fits into the opiod receptors like a key in the wrong lock. It prevents the opoids from engaging, but doesn't fit well enough to exert any opiod effects itself.

So is THIQ there all the time for alcoholics, or is produced after a drinking session?Could this be why when using Nal I've never wanted to carry on drinking the next morning?Or am I woofing up the wrong tree?
I tried to do a quick search on why naltrexone works. All I could find quickly is that it blocks endorphins. Which endorphins it blocks, and why it works in some alcoholics, will not be easy for me to find. I did find some stuff written by laypeople on THIQ and naltrexone. It seems some people have found evidence that this is exactly what it blocks. I don't want to say this without concrete scientific research to back my statement. In theory, it seems it would be true. I don't know why else it would work for some alkies.

THIQ is only produced after alcohol consumption. It is thought it stays in the brain for a long time after drinking. From what I understand, not every alcoholic is a THIQ alcoholic. Some argue the disease concept of alcoholism, for this very reason.

Ukblonde;1129924 wrote: And does Naltrexone interfere with this at all?It is an opoid blocker, primarily it helps alcoholics by blocking the endorphins released when drinking alcohol - but does it block THIQ too?and what does that mean for the brain, and specifically mine now I'm taking Nal fairly regularly?

Ukblonde;1130129 wrote: I didn't see any swearing!!!!

This is all good because we are sharing information and ideas, so as to help each other as well as others out there. Baclofen and Nal between them appear to hold a lot of answers for a lot of problems. AND I have an appointment with an NHS Doctor associated with the Drugs & Alcohol team now........oooohhh.

I answered what I could above. Unfortunately, I don't have much info on naltrexone and THIQ. I'm glad you didn't see any swearing. I said shit originally, but later edited my post. I try to only swear on some people's threads. :H

I agree, regarding the sharing of info. That's why we need each other. I did visit your naltrexone thread UK. It has been a while. I'll have to pop in for a looksy soon.

I remember when I was first trying to research how I was going to stop drinking. I started researching drugs and did dabble a very little in naltrexone. I then discovered baclofen and this site. I didn't take naltrexone any further. From what I remember, the University of North Carolina has a researcher or a few, who are doing many studies on nal. You may want to go online and look around at the studies being done by their addictions department. In one study, naltrexone seemed to work very well in alcoholics who craved sweets. Not after being alcoholic, but prior. Intense sweet cravings that started in childhood. This stood out to me, because I was that child. My son is that child. Did you crave sweets as a child too? I know the researchers have email addresses. You could probably email questions to them.

[Theodore]

Indifference

Hello. Back a little late, but you know, what can you do?
‘’I remember when I was first trying to research how I was going to stop drinking (Redhead)’’- I love this. That’s the spirit! That was a great post, and it’s so good to know there’s some good Nal research going on. Keep me/us updated. And the sweet thing- that’s really interesting- I craved sweets as I child, and I continued to crave them, while I was addicted.
Thanks Terry. That was, as I said, a ‘genuinely interested question’ because I couldn’t find the article, and now I know why- it’s not an article at all- it’s just a blurb, which is disappointing. Chick is (or at least was) the editor of alcohol and alcoholism- is what I mean. And I agree- Ameisen is not God- he gets things wrong- though, personally, I still think he has made a massive contribution to the treatment of alcoholism (and of mental health in general).
Still banging away with the research, which still seems to be going pretty well? Still in regular contact with Dr Chick, who I still think is the most measured, and perceptive Dr on the Baclofen scene, and I’m still feeling pretty good.
Good to see that the regulars are still around.
I’m reading my way through Grey’s Antinomy- but I’ve never studied any medicine, (though I’m thinking of doing a conversion course when I get back from China) and I’m certainly not an expert (in any field). I have a feeling, however, that there are people around here who are! So, please help me out I’d be particularly interested to hear from people who know a lot about the nervous system/and or from any addiction specialist out there

[Theodore]

Indifference

(NE) ''The injustices related to addiction and treatment are not limited to AA. Neither is alcohol-related death, or trite, self-absorbed responses to death.

At the same time, being self-absorbed or narcissistic is not the sole purview of the alcoholic and I sorely resent the implication, for all that I perceive myself as both self-absorbed and narcissistic. If that makes an alcoholic drink, I know some normal drinkers who should be flat out drunk, or dead from the drink.

One of the greatest injustices that I perceive is the self-inflicted harm that goes on in the process of finding some measure of spiritual connection and serenity.
The idea that one part of us is evil and must be sublimated, in order to not drink again. That if we relapse, we must be too bad, too immoral or unethical. please. Lack of morality does not make me an alcoholic. In some circles it makes me a sinner, but I don't run in those circles. Plus, I think I'm pretty moral. And nice. When I'm not making a wrong decision, or being a bitch. I'm not Ghandi, and don't want to be.

So. To AA or not to AA. I did have the epiphany at the last meeting that I might not have really and truly wanted to quit drinking all those many times I tried in a 12-step program. It took a couple of days for me to see how ludicrous that is. I have repented and kowtowed and prayed more times than I care to count in order to enslave the beast.

Turns out I just needed a medicine to take care of a chemical imbalance. No beast. No morality involved. Now I can make better decisions. And when I fuck up, well, like every other normal-ish person, there are consequences to that. Right?

Thanks for the thoughts, GW and others. I've committed to the meeting for a month, and have two more to go. But I don't think it's good for me, in my search for spiritual growth and truth. I think it sucks for that for me.
(You nailed it, GW, I think, with the thought about rock-bottom...)
Peace! (NE)''

That's a very good post!

[Theodore]

Indifference

Godwacker- I'd like to say- I like your craic- you seem very sensitive and self aware- I wish I well