Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

[ignominious]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

LittleLessBoozin';1128365 wrote: Glad I'm not the only one! I've always found this expression to be bizarre for the same reason. "I could care less" "Good! I'm glad you care!"

Now I'm chuckling because I'm recalling a conversation with a Glaswegian who has lived here in CA for many years but has kept his accent. I pointed this out and he said "Aye, I stell heve the occent, but ah've picked up some o' the lingo"

"Like what", asked I?

"Lahke "AAsome. And DUD!"

Now I re read my post, it isn't so funny written down as when I tell it in bars, but if anyone can picture a Glaswegian saying the word 'Dude', you might take some humo(u)r from it!

Paul.

Had me chuckling. Now I just have to wait for an opportunity to plagerise it.

[bleep]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

You seem to be doing well compared to the rest of your family Turbo!

How long do you stay at each level, and what made you and your doctor deviate from OA's titration? Your doctor deserves a bit of credit as well - very few doctors have fallen into line with this treatment, despite reading the book and other research that has been presented to them.

It is interesting to see that you say the SE's have been minimal. I wonder if this is due to your slow titration, or just a tolerance in general. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever know, but I'm guessing you have a high tolerance to drugs?

I hear you loud and clear on the instant results desire. How you have managed to restrain yourself is beyond me. I couldn't have cared less about the side effects when I began, so 10 points there for following your doc's instructions. As you say, you are undoing the work of a lifetime, what's a couple of extra months?

[RudyB]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

turbo! you have an interesting story. and it's great to have local here. i'm 100 miles north of nyc, but i did live there for 11 yrs. so, hop on board my neighbor, and please keep posting.

i'm currently on 130 mg -going up to 150 tomorrow. things are slowly changing, and i am a bit impatient.

kudos to your psych, and to you for your efforts at a better life. sounds like genetics have given you a hard row to hoe.

[Murphyx]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

Turbo, genetics suck arse don't they? I come from a long line of alcoholics (on both sides), so boo to genetics. But then again, apparently on my father's side they all had huge knobs, so YAY GENETICS!!!!!

redhead77;1128044 wrote: I was going to say, shut your cake hole Murph. Since you're writing and not talking, I mean something similar. :H Hey Red, very good use of a British colloquialism. Gold star for you. Except no one in Britain has actually said that since about 1975, so I'm taking that star back. But good effort.


redhead77;1128044 wrote: Turbo is a far better name. Yes, you 'older' ones, I expect you to get your bifocals out. :welcome: my friend.

I'm sorry but that small writing is difficult to read. Did you say you expect me to get my knob out? No need to tell me Red, it always is when I'm reading your posts.:H

[taw]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

I thought the saying was "shut your pie hole" or did I make that up?

Murph, do you need a reason to get your knob out? Does it ever go back in?

[Murphyx]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

taw;1128715 wrote: I thought the saying was "shut your pie hole" or did I make that up?That's the inferior American version. Ours was the original and ever so much better.
taw;1128715 wrote: Murph, do you need a reason to get your knob out? Does it ever go back in?

The beast has returned to its lair. Fear not.

[redhead77]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

One more response from me and then I really am taking a break from here. I said cake hole in Murph's case because he likes cake. I think more than pie. Now, I really am out of here for a period. xxoo

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

funny stuff, here.

Turbo, what's news?

[turboscottomatic]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

Bac(k) for more!


First of all, I vote for bigger letters. I am one of those Bifocalers. It's our little secret. Please don't tell anyone...

I still look good on the pony in my avatar, even in my bifocals, so don't even think I don't. Because they are progressives (no lines, for the perfectly-sighted).

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but OA's final baclofen titration was this:

1. Start at 30 mg/day
2. Add 20 mg/day every 3rd day after that
3. By the 37th day he was up to 270 mg/day
4. He stayed there for a while (12 days)
5. Then dropped down to 120 mg/day over the course of 12 days.
6. Stayed there, taking an occasional extra 20-40 for stressful situations on an ad lib basis.

I think I've got it down. I made the mistake of buying the book on my Kindle, against my better judgement. Because it wasn't available in my closest bookstore and I want what I want NOW. Imagine such a behavior in an alcoholic/manic/bipolar! Wonders never cease!

Don't get me wrong, I love my Kindle (though I secretly covet the color Nook from Barnes and Noble. I get a half a boner every time I see one.). But it's only good for things you read straight through, like novels and such. Anything that requires going back and forth and to the index and the table of context and so on SUCKS on a Kindle. Paper for me for that.

I digress. Anyway, I spent the last 45 minutes jerking off my Kindle trying to find OA's titration, so I could compare it to mine.

Feel free to correct me if Kindle has led me astray.

hugs and kisses,
Scott

[tiptronic_ct]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

Clearly no lag here, Turbo

[turboscottomatic]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

My titration

Okay, so here is (roughly) the titration my psych and I agreed to. This is from memory, so don't shoot me if some of the math is magical. But I think it is on point:

Start date 3 x daily dosage (x/x/x). so, 5/5/5 = 5 mg 3 x daily

03/31/11 @ 5/5/5
04/07/11 @ 10/10/10
04/14/11 @ 20/20/20
*** First side effects

04/21/11 @ 25/25/25
04/28/11 @ 30/30/30
05/05/11 @ 35/35/35
*** Second side effects. My psych made me stay at 35/35/35 for 3 weeks, so

05/12/11 @ 35/35/35
05/19/11 @ 35/35/35
05/26/11 @ 40/40/40
*** My psych is making me wait two weeks for every increase of 5/5/5 now, so

06/02/11 @ 40/40/40
06/09/11 @ 45/45/45
06/16/11 @ 45/45/45

Brings me up to date....

*** First side effects.
Agitation/anger. F this, F that. Everyone on the sidewalks (of NYC, mind you) is a prick and in my way and should be exterminated immediately, wanting to run people off the road, etc, etc. Exactly how I felt prior to undertaking the wonderful Lamictal/Klonopin treatment, which had given me so much Liberty of the Head. It felt like all the good work of the Lamictal and Klonopin I had been taking was being undone. I began to doubt baclofen was for me. Here is the great (ironic) part: when I went back to my psych, he said, "That is not what we agreed upon." I was playing a little fast and loose with the titration. What I remembered was that I was supposed to be at 'about' 20/20/20 when I saw him next, which was going to be a bit more than our usual 3 weeks because one of us was going away for a week or something like that. I was supposed to go something like this:

7 days @ 5/5/5
7 days @ 10/10/10
7 days @ 15/15/15
7 days @ 20/20/20

What I actually did was something like:
4 days @ 5/5/5
4 days @ 10/10/10
20 days @ 20/20/20

So basically I doubled my dose twice in very short order. I now keep a written schedule of exactly what date I am supposed to go up and I stick to that. I didn't like that period of side effects AT ALL and realize, looking back, that it nearly made me give up before I even got started.....

*** Second side effects:
My psych said he didn't like my reports of over-sleepiness in general and he noticed I was having trouble finding my words, which he had never seen before. So we decided it would be best for me to stay on my 35/35/35 dose until I saw him again in 3 weeks.

*** Slowing down the titration to 5/5/5 every 2 weeks:
I have a very important professional certifying exam in August coming up and he didn't like the idea of me nodding off every time I sit down to my books. I didn't like the idea either, so we agreed to slow it down a bit. It will take me a long, long time to get to something like 3 mg/kg (seems to be the magic area). I am up around 105 kg these days, so I'm looking at maybe hitting the 'sweet spot' at 270-330 mg (I like 'sweet spot' better than 'switch,' (copyright turboscottomatic, 2011)).

I have other ongoing side effects which I'll get into soon enough. I may have misspoke when I said my side effects are 'minimal.' But they are manageable, which is good enough for me. The side effects of my drinking are NOT manageable and the side effects of living a short, sad life are not manageable either. So, I can take it so far, without bitching and complaining.

Scott

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

I was going to send you a pm but my box is full and I don't have time to figure out what I can bear to get rid of. So consider yourself pm'd and here's the message:

Love your post. The nooks are very cute, but shoes are about the only thing that excites me that much. Plus, you can't beat paper.

Buy the book. Mine is marked up and battered and I luuuuuuuv it. I've found different things made sense to me in different ways at different times in my journey. Even now I refer to it. But I'm a groupie, so take that for what it's worth.

Sorry about the bifocals. I won't even get progressives, though apparently I should. I can see. What's the problem?

Yes. That was OA's titration. He's made it clear since then, in NO uncertain terms, that that's it. You can also refer to the case study published in the Lancet, but it says the exact same thing. I know he'd appreciate it if someone pointed that out to you, though.

Dr. Levin uses a much more cautious protocol, because he believes it lessens side effects. Not so sure about that one, myself. But I thought I'd point it out just to muddy the waters for you a bit.

hmmm. What else?
ah, yes. Murphy, x=kiss, o=hug therefore xo=kisses and hugs,
Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

We cross posted.

Very interesting what your shrink said. How's it working in terms of modifying the SEs? Especially the somnolence? For instance, when you stayed at a certain level for 3 weeks?

Everyone on the sidewalks in NYC is an effin' asshole, so what's the problem again?
Truthfully, the lovey part of my bac journey was really wonderful, hope you find that SE. Then again, I'm a bit like that in general...But others have reported it, too...

I was VERY worried about the somnolence/fatigue thing for a while, for many reasons. I've found that when I need to be "on" I am. When I need to concentrate, even while test-taking, I am. But I'm also indifferent and on a maintenance dose. Also, there are some holistic answers that I haven't tried, but someone might come along with a solution for that.

There is NO correlation between weight and # of milligrams needed. Despite OA's original assertion and subsequent reporting of such things. I can't bac that up, exactly, with scientific research, but I would still assert it as fact. My own experience aside, there are lots and lots of "sweet spot" doses. We have NO idea why. I had to go up to 340mg and I weigh 60kg. An average-ish size guy in Europe found indifference at 75mg, and I can't remember what he weighs, but it's more than I do! The anecdotal evidence is overwhelming, in this case.
Nice to hear from you!

[turboscottomatic]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

bleep;1128436 wrote: You seem to be doing well compared to the rest of your family Turbo!

How long do you stay at each level, and what made you and your doctor deviate from OA's titration? Your doctor deserves a bit of credit as well - very few doctors have fallen into line with this treatment, despite reading the book and other research that has been presented to them.

Well, by my estimation, the titration OA underwent is fine for an MD experimenting on himself - he has no one to answer to if something goes wrong. Someone buying Bac over the internet and managing themselves has no one to answer to either. Not being a critic, just my 2 cents. My psych has a lot to lose if I get hurt somehow by what he is doing. And he is mixing 3 psych meds in a person with a pretty rough history of substance abuse/mental illness. I have a fair amount of experience with (therapeutic) psych meds, pain meds, etc, in addition to drugs of abuse. I have dosed myself with all sorts of things I bought over the internet, trying to cure my ills. I have personally suffered quite a bit from rapid titrations of meds I really had no business trying to manage myself. As an example, I dragged someone off of a subway car by the hair and gave him a beat down in a rage brought on by putting myself on Wellbutrin 150 for a couple of days then up to 300. I got up and out of the subway station just in time to PASS THE POLICE ON MY WAY UP THE STAIRS who were coming to arrest me. They had no idea who they were looking for and rushed right past me. No joke. People with mania should NEVER be taking Wellbutrin. I've tried to manage myself other times as well, with less dramatics, but equal amounts of misery. I am VERY fortunate to have a doc who does this.

It is interesting to see that you say the SE's have been minimal. I wonder if this is due to your slow titration, or just a tolerance in general. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever know, but I'm guessing you have a high tolerance to drugs?

Believe it or not, I am pretty sensitive to drugs these days! I won't say whether I've ever done meth or heroin or not, but if I had, I haven't done either in exactly 20 years. ;-) I also won't say whether I've ever done cocaine, but if I had, I haven't done that in exactly 20 years either, except for a few times with a girl I used to run around with about eight years ago, if I had. ;-) I may or may not have smoked pot 4-5 times a week right as I was getting into bed to help me get to sleep. But if I did, I stopped needing to do that once my psych started me on Klonopin. When I started the Klonopin even 1/2 of a 0.5 mg tablet made me feel like I had a couple of martinis. I still take a small dose. About 1 mg total, throughout the day. Now I sleep like a baby.

So, I think the slow titration is the likely suspect as far as manageable side effects goes. But then again, a lot of people around here seem to have done alright with faster titrations than mine.

I hear you loud and clear on the instant results desire. How you have managed to restrain yourself is beyond me. I couldn't have cared less about the side effects when I began, so 10 points there for following your doc's instructions. As you say, you are undoing the work of a lifetime, what's a couple of extra months?

When I started with my psych I made a vow to myself that I would let him drive. I was tired of trying to be the smartest guy in the room regarding something I really had no business doing. So when he said you are bipolar and we will start Lamictal, I gulped and said "Okay." When he said we are going to start Klonopin, I thought to myself "I've already got enough F-ing problems with addiction, and this guy wants me to start taking Benzo's??" But I gulped and said "Okay." When he said okay, I'll do this baclofen thing for you, but we will titrate up as slow as molasses on a cold day, I thought to myself, "This is bullsh*t. OA got to 270 mg in 37 days and you want me to take 6-9 MONTHS??" But I gulped and said "Okay." When it is all said and done, he has done more good for me than about anyone else except my woman (and not just tending to my knob, Murph!). I trust him. I trust his judgement. I am relieved to not be stubbornly steering a ship I can't steer very well. That's how I restrain myself. By giving up.

=

[turboscottomatic]

Turboscottomatic's Baclofen Journey and, BTW - Hello!

My Mood: regular

My Darling Ne,

Thanks for validating the concentration of a-holes on NYC sidewalks! My research shows that there is one prick per square foot on those sidewalks during the daylight hours, and about 0.75 per square foot after dark. The other 0.25 are drunk and weaving.

I have had good SE's as well, now that you mention the lovey part. Not sure if you mean sex or affection, but both have improved a lot for me. From good to great, in fact! Unexpected but very welcome. My fiancee says that I laugh a lot more. She had to point it out but then I saw that it was true. Like uncontrollable, can't stop, can't breathe kind of laughing.

My experience with sleepiness is exactly like yours, I am fine when I need to be 'on.' When I'm at work, I am high energy and clear. When I am driving I am fine. When I sit down to my computer or to a book I start to drop off pretty damn quick. If I take a bath I start to drop off and my Kindle will sooner or later be ruined by dropping it in the bath. I get scolded and Kindle gets yanked out of my hands. Sally thinks she is getting the Kindle when I give in and upgrade to a Nook. She doesn't want it to go under. So far it has gotten some suds on it, but I've kept it out of the water. My luck won't go on forever......

Scott