Does Baclofen‏ work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

[Murphyx]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

Theodore, it's great that you have a theory. Expound to your heart's content on the thread you started for it. I'm sure lots of people will be interested in reading it. But when you go over to other threads and start offering treatment advice based on it, you cross the fucking line.

And don't send me PMs. I'm not interested. Other people may be, but I'm not.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

Do you think you could take any disagreements/innuendo/shocking revelation/theories- untested to threads that are not fraught newbies? Like your own maybe? That is, if you won't take it off the boards. It would be a shame to return to the days on recent times, wouldn't it?

Like now, maybe. Somewhere else. Somewhere slightly less inappropriate.

It would be much appreciated.

Rich, Dr. Chick was an early adopter of bac treatment. He's not just cautious, he's probably reasonable. Given the fact that there is NO scientific research that has been done about High Dose Bac treatment, I can hardly fault him.

That said, I am glad I found the info I needed to get started and find indifference.

It might be worth an email to the doctors at UPenn. They actually researched and worked with cocaine addicts. PbarE has the numbers. I do, too, but won't be able to get them and post them for several days, probably.

Good luck, whatever route you go, Rich. And do keep us posted, will you?

[Theodore]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

Yes, that is the problem Murph- you are not interested. That is why you, by your own admission, never read The End of My Addiction, and you dismissed OA is a 'boring bugger,' even though he is, in my opinion, one of the most interesting men in the world. He has lots of famous friends who would attest to that, I'm sure. That would be fine, but unfortuantely- curisoty in other people and their opinions tend to go hand in hand with consideration, and compassion for them. In my case, asking questions and listening to others has allowed me to cure my addciton by the age of 24 and begin a promising academic carreer. You lack curisoity, and that's why you regularly offend people on this site. But you do have lots of other good qualities, which is why I and a lot of other people like still like, despite your rudeness and arrogance.

The advice I offered was not based on my theory, but on that, as I said of World Health Organisation report, and lots of other well founded scientific evidence. It is, as such, not really a theory at all. I would send you this report, or even a youtube video of entire conference based upon it, but you are, as you say, not interested.

In any case, I am perfectly entitled to offer my opinion on other people's threads. I would not for a moment suggest that anyone place my advice on a higher footing than that other memebers, and Rich has already recived lots of other good suggestions for his treatment. He may have dismissed what I said about TCM, which is understandable- it does sound a little radical without the scientific information there, in front of you. But, it never hurts to have a diverse range of options and information before you when you are struggling with addction.

You yourself have lots of your own theories, and regualry dispense advice based upon them. As far I undertand, your advice goes like this; ignore the reccomendations of a world renouned neourlogist, and alcohol specialist, Dr Chick, and instead, order large amounts of baclofen from potentially unreliable sources on the internet, without reading any of the related literature on the drug. I would agree that, in some cases, this approach is appropriate, but I will, again, add this simply rejoinder- consult dr chick first before taking your treatment into your own hands.

I send you a PMS because I thought it would be more polite to express my concerns with your insults, face to face, so to speak. I have always been considerate towards you and read your posts with care and attention. I ask only that you extend me the same courtesy.

[Theodore]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

yes- I will gladly do that Ne. I try, namely in a private conversation with Murph, but that backfired. Sorry Rich. I hope it goes well for you.

[Guest]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

I've only met Dr Chick in person once, but I've seen enough Drs, specialists, 'treatment' centres, groups and systems to know that he know what he is doing. He is open minded, but also cautious. He doesn't want to go running around pouring baclofen down everyone's throats. He just wants to help people, best way he can do that is by staying within guidelines and quietly working away.

I don't do hero creating, follow-my-leader stuff but I will say he's the bees knees.

[RevoltingRich]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

Well he has proposed a meeting (Dr.Chick).
Do you think I'll get a baclofen prescription out of him?
He has mentioned benzos (only if I was on them or not). Stupidly I forgot about the cost -(used to NHS and prison health service) and if I want to see him I have to come up with some money.

That Ibogaine sounds like nutty stuff, everyone seems to have a bonkers trip on it that somehow relates to them, their life, etc. But despite my interest I am a little scared (says the bloke who regularly injected coke, smack and speed for 10 yrs). I had a bad experience on Salvia Divanorum about 6 years ago.
I get weird dreams all the time now I'm clean but not like those. Usually I'm trying to do something that is very important but no matter what I cant do it. What 'it' is changes all the time, but that anxious panic to get it done properly and quickly is always there?

[RevoltingRich]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

i guess i gotta go for it. is there many reports of people loosing there minds on ibogaine? Or having significant problems caused by baclofen? Any long lasting ones?
What exactly happens in a baclofen withdrawal?

[Greg]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

RevoltingRich;1128217 wrote: I conciously want to stay clean BUT
my desire hasnt gone away.
my desire is a feeling NOT A THOUGHT
it isnt reasonable.
I know that addiction is bad for me and has screwed up my life, its not like i havent relised that before now.
But its shit having to live with that annoying craving in my body even though my mind wants to stay clean my body desires it.
Can you understand me!

Hey Rich, I just wanted to start by saying how strongly I can relate to this. It's exactly how cravings have felt to me aswell...I often think of it as having two sides of my personality fighting, with my emotions wanting to use or drink but my thoughts knowing I shouldn't.

I'd personally try ibogaine if I could find someone able to supervise it and give reassurance, although I'm now doing ok just with baclofen. Bac does have various side effects in people who have tried high doses, but my dose is still lowish, so others here are probably the best ones to advise you on high dose issues. It doesn't seem to have any serious long term effects however once a person has reached a steady high dose.

Regarding abrupt baclofen withdrawal, seizures and hallucinations can be part of it (source=rxlist.com), along with severe anxiety and various other symptoms. Baclofen is described as having "general CNS depressant properties" which would logically make it similar to alcohol and benzos during sudden withdrawal (especially from large doses).

Gradually reducing your baclofen dose, and making sure you have enough in reserve to be able to do this, should minimise these problems. Good luck with it all.

[ignominious]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

By all reports any bad effects caused by baclofen are completely reversed when the dose is reduced.

Its a very safe drug that's been around for nearly a century, try it.

[taw]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

What have you decided to do, Rich?

We are here to support you whatever you decide....

Best wishes!!

[RevoltingRich]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

Just managed to get a Baclofen prescription off my NHS Doctor. He also used to work at the local harm reduction clinic (methadone parlour) and so has an interest in addiction. HE has heard about it and after a 5 min conversation trying to convince me I needed some kind of talking therapy (which i've tried and never reached satisfaction from a hundred times before) he prescribed me Baclofen. 20mgs per day for a couple days, going up to 60mgs after about 5days.
Does that sound right?

He also mentioned that 60mgs was the maximum dosage...

I hope that this works... Thank you all for your support and guidance

[RevoltingRich]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

Baclofen Side Effects - for the Professional
Baclofen
The most common is transient drowsiness (10 to 63%). In one controlled study of 175 patients, transient drowsiness was observed in 63% of those receiving Baclofen compared to 36% of those in the placebo group. Other common adverse reactions are dizziness (5 to 15%), weakness (5 to 15%) and fatigue (2 to 4%).

Others reported:

Neuropsychiatric: Confusion (1 to 11%), headache (4 to 8%), insomnia (2 to 7%); and rarely, euphoria, excitement, depression, hallucinations, paresthesia, muscle pain, tinnitus, slurred speech, coordination disorder, tremor, rigidity, dystonia, ataxia, blurred vision, nystagmus, strabismus, miosis, mydriasis, diplopia, dysarthria, epileptic seizure.

Cardiovascular: Hypotension (0 to 9%). Rare instances of dyspnea, palpitation, chest pain, syncope.

Gastrointestinal: Nausea (4 to 12%), constipation (2 to 6%); and rarely, dry mouth, anorexia, taste disorder, abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, and positive test for occult blood in stool.

Genitourinary: Urinary frequency (2 to 6%); and rarely, enuresis, urinary retention, dysuria, impotence, inability to ejaculate, nocturia, hematuria.

Other: Instances of rash, pruritus, ankle edema, excessive perspiration, weight gain, nasal congestion.

Some of the CNS and genitourinary symptoms may be related to the underlying disease rather than to the drug therapy. The following laboratory tests have been found to be abnormal in a few patients receiving Baclofen: increased SGOT, elevated alkaline phosphatase, and elevation of blood sugar.

Baclofen Side Effects | Drugs.com

[ignominious]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

It sounds unusual and great Rich.

Power to the Doc who's prescribing it for one.

Secondly it sounds like a fairly fast titration if you are expected to go from 20mg to 60mg after 5 days. I wont say its a bad thing but 20mg increase per week would be more a more normal schedule. This is more in line with Dr Levin's ideas. Having said that, a good few people have achieved the desired results in quick time without having to endure weeks of unpleasant SEs by increasing their dose quickly.

I think 100mg is the max dose recommended in England but if not, then its surely 80mg.

You need to get some online baclofen ordered post haste because the chances are that you will need to go higher and for that you will need to self medicate.

Good news and good luck.

[RevoltingRich]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

seeing my doc next thursday to get another prescription. Reckon I can appeal to the 'maverick' in him. Think he's the kind of guy whos geniuely interested to see if it works.
Otherwise - if I need to get a higher dose - I guess I can buy some online and just get as much as pos for free from the NHS in the meantime.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Does Baclofen work on Heroin and Crack addiction - in particular CRAVINGS

Congratulations, Rich! I'm really glad you found a viable and reasonable option. I think that's a great start, and as Ig pointed out, you may find that works just fine for you.

I'm really glad that there is a doctor out there willing to jump in to the mix!

Keep us posted, will you?
Ne