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My Baclofen experience so far

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    My Baclofen experience so far

    Just found this forum, thought I'd share how things were going for me. I know there are a ton of threads like this, but at least I'll be in good company Besides, I've had a few insights that I'd like to share, so please read on...

    I'm a pretty hardcore alcoholic. I could easily put away a litre of vodka in the course of a day. I had a nervous breakdown about two years ago and have been trying to kick both the alcohol and the depression since. The depression definitely started first; the drinking was my way of dealing with it. I've heard a lot of people in AA meetings say that they thought they were always an alcoholic, but I'm pretty sure I had to put the effort in to get there. And boy, did I get there.

    After moving back home with the folks I've tried numerous times to give up through AA, the local alcohol treatment unit and eventually twenty-eight days in rehab. I heard about Baclofen in August of last year, but couldn't find anyone to recommend it- my GP wouldn't prescribe it off-licence and the doctor at the rehab centre dismissed it out of hand. The feeling at AA was that if I had to take a pill to stop drinking I wouldn't be achieving 'true' sobriety, and if I couldn't stop using willpower it was because I didn't truly want to stop.

    But does any alcoholic ever truly want to stop? If you'd asked me if I wanted to stop a year ago I honestly couldn't answer. What I would have liked to do is continue drinking but have none of the associated problems. I could certainly see the need to stop and the consequences of not stopping, but if you'd offered me a drink I probably still would have said yes.

    Anyway, rehab worked better than straight AA- met some great people, shed a few tears, had a relaxing month in the country in a safe environment, reclaimed a bit of my humanity, etc etc. I started smoking again too, but that's beside the point.

    I managed about three months sober afterwards, mostly because I was too scared to drink. But after a while the cravings got too much, and I relapsed. The longest I managed after that was about six weeks. I was at least honest with my parents about when I'd drunk and when I hadn't, which helped, but I was still on edge any time I left the house. Fear was keeping me sober, but it was also keeping me from getting back to reality.

    Fast foward to about two months ago: my cat died. Poor Ambrose. He was keeping me sane, and was genuinely affectionate (which is pretty rare for cats). I just knew I was looking at another relapse, so I decided to screw the advice and try Baclofen. The stuff arrived about two weeks later. About forty minutes after taking my first pill I noticed a difference- the part of my internal monologue that was dedicated to drink switched off for about twenty minutes. Thing is, I hadn't really noticed that it was there at all until after it had gone.

    Before then everything to do with booze had consumed me- not just the drinking, but also the strange comfort that I got from simply buying it; the pleasing weight of a bottle of vodka in my bag on the walk home, the knowledge that even if I wasn't drinking it now, I'd be able to drink it later; the qualia
    of just owning alcohol. I was secretly hoping for the day when I could safely drink again, worried that I'd never be able to share a quiet pint with a friend or get a girlfriend without a few drinks to break the ice. And when I did drink, I had the overwhelming feeling that it was somehow correct.

    As I've increased the dose- I'm on 240mg a day now- the length of time I've spent without that aspect of my psyche has increased. I still get the urge to drink, but it's more to do with suppressing the depression than with a direct need for booze.

    About two weeks after the first pill I started feeling depressed, and decided to get some vodka. I bought it, but had none of the feelings of release that I used to get from buying alcohol. When I did drink it later, I didn't really get the same buzz. It got me drunk, but I only had half the bottle that night, saving the rest for the next day. I drank that too, but mostly just to get over the hangover. I spent the rest of the day feeling crap, but didn't feel the need to get any more.

    I can see the difference between the two feelings now- before, it felt like they were expressions of the same thing. It's easier to deal with the academic desire to blot everything out when it's not being backed up by a visceral urge.

    Now, I've yet to reach the critical dosage, but I'm sure it's having an effect. It can't just be psychological. The only side effects I've had so far are sleep-loss and mild constipation. I've started going to the gym again to help with the former, and I might get some laxatives for the latter if it continues. The anti-depressants I'm taking- mirtazapine- have a sedative effect, so I'm loathe to add sleeping pills into the mix. I'm still getting bouts of depression, but I'm hoping the increased exercise will help- I'm told exercise is particularly effective for young men, and I'm only 29, so fingers crossed.

    That's where I'm at- can anyone identify with this, or is it just me? Thanks for reading regardless.

    #2
    My Baclofen experience so far

    Godwhacker - interesting story. Great to hear your having some relief from that constant longing to drink! Exercise is definetly a great mood boost, but I would check out Wellbutrin, and SNRI's like Effexor for antidepressants that can increase your energy. Especially Wellbutrin.

    Many of us can definitely relate, and there's some great people on here that are always up for helping us out. Welcome to MWO, and keep coming back!
    Knowledge of what is possible is the beginning of happiness.
    George Santayana

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      #3
      My Baclofen experience so far

      Hiya, GWhacker!
      :welcome:

      I'm a woman, 41, so nope. Can't relate on those two.

      I can definitely relate to a lot of what you wrote about booze, though.
      I'm just passing through but wanted to say hi!
      Bac () tomorrow!

      Glad you found some relief! Glad you found MWO!
      Ne

      Comment


        #4
        My Baclofen experience so far

        hey godwhacker! great handle. and i love someone who can teach me a new word: qualia! thanks.

        glad you found mwo. this is a great place to share your very relevant story. who cares if there are lots of similar stories/threads here already?! your experience is unique and nothing replaces your own sharing of it. you'll probably get a lot out of it if you do.

        i can't imgaine having gone the course right up to 240 all on my own! in fact, just today i was thinking about the courage and strength it would take to do that. i'm at 190 at the moment, and i never would've gotten here with this much confidence without the support of the good people here at mwo.

        how are the side effects treating you? and yes, the gym is a great idea! if you can work out early in the day, i find that it's much less of a challenge to get to sleep later. the physical tired can be comprimised by a late workout, in my experience, probably from all those endorphins and maybe adrenaline that comes from vigorous exercise. (i went to the gym this morning and i feel great, and good and tired.)

        good luck. please keep us posted.

        rudy b

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          #5
          My Baclofen experience so far

          ...and i hate that stuff you find in aa about how you have to white knuckle it and you don't really want to stop if you take a pill to help. that somehow a magic pill is an evil fable. hate that attitude! it's so outdated and it doesn't usually work (like in ninety five percent of cases). so good for you for venturing out on your own.

          Comment


            #6
            My Baclofen experience so far

            Hi GW, and welcome.

            Our stories are pretty similar, although my poison was beer and wine. Like you, I found no solace in AA, and rehab only worked for a short period for me.

            Baclofen completely turned my life around, and it sounds like it's having a very positive effect on yours as well. What titration schedule have you used to get to 240mg's?

            You'll probably find the constipation is level dependent, and will pass of it's own accord (pun intended) once you go up. In the meantime, there's no harm in throwing a laxative or two down the hatch to get things moving.

            Best of luck with the remainder of your titration, please keep us informed!

            Comment


              #7
              My Baclofen experience so far

              Godwhacker;1137535 wrote: That's where I'm at- can anyone identify with this, or is it just me? Thanks for reading regardless. No. I can identify with almost all of it. You could almost be writing my story. The only thing that's different is this:

              Godwhacker;1137535 wrote:
              worried that I'd never be able to share a quiet pint with a friend or get a girlfriend without a few drinks
              Personally I've never had to get a girl drunk in order to shag her. I just use rohypnol.

              The unexamined life is not worth living

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                #8
                My Baclofen experience so far

                The feeling at AA was that if I had to take a pill to stop drinking I wouldn't be achieving 'true' sobriety, and if I couldn't stop using willpower it was because I didn't truly want to stop.
                Is this more Joseph Heller or Bill Hicks? Either way it's comedy gold... how come there's no TV series?

                Great to hear you're digging your way out of this mess, Godwhacker... and congratulations on having the guts to do something about your drinking. I sure can relate to the comfort of having enough booze lined up for the next few hours... in my case a crate of beer would be perfect. Enough to get bombed, wake up, and get bombed again if the hangover proved too much to face up to.

                Not a great way to live. Thankfully there is a way out and you seem to have found it. So -- go for it! And enjoy life, instead of stewing in a this boozy hell-hole...

                (If you need a new cat, by the way, I've got several of the bastards cluttering up my garden trying to steal lunch from my precious moggies. Just send a stamped addressed envelope... )

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                  #9
                  My Baclofen experience so far

                  Personally I've never had to get a girl drunk in order to shag her. I just use rohypnol.
                  You'd have thought Mrs Murphy would have noticed by now...

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                    #10
                    My Baclofen experience so far

                    Try spinach before the laxative. I'm not being flippant. Dark leafy greens do the trick. Really.

                    What's a moggie?

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                      #11
                      My Baclofen experience so far

                      Thanks for the kind words guys, I'll keep you posted. Off to the gym now, then the library to start putting a new portfolio website together, but I'll write some more later.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My Baclofen experience so far

                        What's a moggie?
                        Oh, sorry NE, I had no idea I was using one of those words that, like Robbie Williams, failed to make it Stateside.

                        Moggy definition
                        "BRIT., INFORMAL a domestic cat, esp. one of a common or mixed breed"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          My Baclofen experience so far

                          Moved up to 260 today, no additional side effects. I'm feeling more and more positive about the drinking, which is having an effect on my mood. I went to the newsagent's today to get some cigarette papers and had absolutely no jealous reaction to the woman in front of me buying three bottles of wine.

                          I've been testing myself by asking the question 'Do I want a drink?', and increasingly the answer is negative. The only cravings I have are abstract- i.e. to go for a quiet drink with a friend, but increasingly I'd be happy just to go for coffee.

                          Some quick responses:

                          bleep;1137584 wrote: What titration schedule have you used to get to 240mg's?
                          RudyB wrote: i can't imgaine having gone the course right up to 240 all on my own! in fact, just today i was thinking about the courage and strength it would take to do that. i'm at 190 at the moment, and i never would've gotten here with this much confidence without the support of the good people here at mwo.
                          I went by the advice in The Bigger Book (that is, The End of my Addiction by Dr. Olvier Amiesen) 30mg to start with, taken in 10mg doses three times a day, followed by an increase of 20mg every three days thereafter. I put together a spreadsheet that listed the individual doses, the total for the day, the amount taken so far and the remaining amount of Baclofen I had in stock. I printed this out and stuck it on a cupboard in the kitchen so I could keep track.

                          I've started writing a quick bit of software that'll do the same for people- expect a post on that in the next couple of days.

                          RudyB wrote:
                          how are the side effects treating you? and yes, the gym is a great idea! if you can work out early in the day, i find that it's much less of a challenge to get to sleep later. the physical tired can be comprimised by a late workout, in my experience, probably from all those endorphins and maybe adrenaline that comes from vigorous exercise. (i went to the gym this morning and i feel great, and good and tired.)
                          Gym seems to be helping, the side-effects are annoying but manageable. I've put on a couple of stone over the last two years but I'm still pretty healthy- well, unless you count the cigarettes. I'm guessing your general health will have something to do with how much Baclofen you can handle.

                          For example, there's something in the book about how Dr. Amiesen calculated how much he could safely take based on his body weight. It's quite possible that if your weight is too high you might not be able to safely reach the critical dose- especially if you also have a bad liver. Excess fat causes as much liver damage as alcohol, and is by far the biggest cause of liver disease in the UK.

                          Seethepony wrote:
                          Is this more Joseph Heller or Bill Hicks? Either way it's comedy gold... how come there's no TV series?
                          Given that I've http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo[/video]]worked in marketing for quite some time I'd prefer Joseph Heller. It is a bit Catch-22 though- the only way you can prove you want to stop drinking is by stopping drinking.

                          I still go to meetings, but I'm loathe to talk about Baclofen, since it'd probably just cause a lot of bad feeling amongst the old guard. I don't want to take anyone's hard-won sobriety away from them, and any newcomers deserve a chance to try willpower first.

                          For a number of people, simply being able to share what's going on may be enough. If they're drinking because of some event that happened in the recent past, they may just have to process that and move on. Psychiatry is expensive, so the lay-therapy at AA may work just fine. But as it stands, a great many people only start taking AA seriously after hitting rock bottom. It shouldn't be necessary, but so often that's how it seems.

                          I'm not sure where I can really talk about it other than here- my GP remains sceptical, though I hope the extended sobriety will convince him, and I can't really talk about it at the 'aftercare' sessions at the rehab centre because there are always four or five inpatients in the room. It'd completely disrupt their recovery if I did.

                          Seethepony wrote: (If you need a new cat, by the way, I've got several of the bastards cluttering up my garden trying to steal lunch from my precious moggies. Just send a stamped addressed envelope... )
                          We've still got one, but unfortunately it's the psychotic one who's probably going to live until he's 40. I can't imagine any cat being as nice as Ambrose right now. Here's a picture of him in his usual position, which was usually next to wherever I was:

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                            #14
                            My Baclofen experience so far

                            Hey, GW. Good stuff all the way around. Glad for you about the 260!

                            I wonder if we might have an open discussion about AA and bac. (Without all of the hoopla this normally entails around here, folks.)
                            If that would make you uncomfortable, maybe we can exchange pm.s about it?

                            I've just started going again, and I'm a little (lot) conflicted about it. Thoughts from someone on the inside would be useful I think.

                            Carry on with the kitty-love, then!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              My Baclofen experience so far

                              ouch on the Bill Hicks vid. How do you sleep???

                              I was contemplating applying for a position with a big pharma for a while... Does that compare?

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