Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

[RudyB]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

i think u can acheive that by continuing to post and encouraging nal takers to do same.

i have seen NO anti nal attitudes from the bacsters at all, execpt in expressing our own particular experiences with it, so i dont get the purported problem that there's anti-nal sentiments in general. i personally think that if it works for you, use it! if you want more nal traffic, please, do make more nal traffic.

[Guest]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

RudyB;1139992 wrote: i think u can acheive that by continuing to post and encouraging nal takers to do same.

i have soon NO anti nal attitudes from the bacster at all. so i dont get the purported problem. ifyou want more nal traffic, make more nal traffic.

Rudy I do actually try my best - unfortunately last week I was extremely busy, although I did actually consider putting other more important things to one side. I cannot do any more.

Suppose I could start off a couple more Nal threads, bump them daily!!!:H So as to keep up with all the bac threads.

[ignominious]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

KatieSmiles;1139951 wrote: Ig...dya wanna arm wrestle?????

That's the pot calling the kettle black I would say.

I am one of those who wasn't familiar with alternatives when I started baclofen and would also like to see more even representation for the meds. This cannot happen until baclofen gets its own dedicated forum.

From the sounds of it Nal is a very useful drug and in retrospect I'm sure I would have tried it if I had heard about it first. Its a moot point here as baclofen led me to MWO rather than the other way.

[Murphyx]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

What "them and us"?
What's the issue?
What problem is this addressing?
What's Katie's cup size?

[Godwhacker]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

If it works, do it. It's not us vs. them. The whole point is that it's a general 'meds' forum, and I'd like to hear more from Naltrexone users too. If you respond badly to one, try the other.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

mmm. yes. I think as a profoundly pro-bac participant I can say that I have always believed, as has anyone I've ever spoken with on or off the forum, that there is and should be room for all of the options. Plenty for white-knuckles, lots and lots for support, some for prayer, and lots of space in meds.

The only reason it seems that there is a preponderance of bac-ers is simply because there are many of us who start and maintain threads regularly. We have no control over where the threads are on the pages. It would be really, really nice to have a consolidated, check in here daily thread. In the General Discussion section it is these that get the most attention and the blogs that don't. At least that's my take on it. And frankly, would be my preference.

All that said, I am personally pro-Nal too. The science is there, genome or not, and with the gene, well, wow!
I made the decision recently to get tested for the gene, and to order some Nal.** Not because baclofen didn't work for me. On the contrary. But the What-Ifs reign in my brain, which doesn't work quite right when it comes to booze... I'm looking to maintain freedom forever, you know?

Short version: I'm in. What's the problem again?

**In no small part because of your thread, Ukb. Hats off, sister. And congrats.

[RudyB]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

great! i'm glad others have chimed in. ditto what they said. except, i'd rather not move all of this stuff to a different forum. maybe a different section of mwo forum? or is that what you meant?

cup size, i'd rather not talk about that, as i am no longer a c now that i'm not nursing. (eew, murph is thinking.)

i edited my above post as i'm on computer now, not i touch. it more completely expresses my thoughts on the matter.

and UK, i totally dig that you're so into helping people know about nal, and i am thrilled for you that you found something that works to slay the beast. i wish more people would jump on board with you to spread the word and share their questions and experiences. it shouldn't be up to you alone. and people needn't feel intimidated or deterred for any reason by the amount of talk about bac. it's really shouldn't function as a deterrent for anything. it's just the busiest med right now, from the looks of it. but maybe not, maybe there are tons of people using nal with success, but they're just not sharing as much about it. maybe that's partly because, from the sounds of it, the se's aren't as big of a challenge for nal.

as i said to my son about the puzzle: work with what works!

carry on folks, nalsters and bacsters alike. we all have the same goal, don't we?!

[BacloTim]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

Adding some sort of useless question that I bet is answered else where but I can bump the thread with it at least right?

Isn't Naltrexone what they give to heroin addicts that are OD'd? Like it is a opiate antagonist and wipes any opiates out of your system? I also know it works for opiate addicts since they can't get high while on it if I have the right medication and they have like a pellet you can get in your arm so you have to take it. I think they did that to some heroin addicts for them to be able to get out of prison or something weird I heard before. I really don't understand how it also works for alcohol cravings but apparently it does, I'd like to hear more about it as well as a possible combo to go with the bac. Maybe there is something there with the opiod system that is out of whack in addicts/alcoholics as well. I feel embarrassed that I haven't read much about it.

Anyway I am interested in learning more and you are right there aren't a whole bunch of Naltrexone threads here. My only concern about taking it was that my opiate type meds/herbs wouldn't work anymore but maybe that is another addiction worth getting rid of anyway.

EDIT: Oops I had Naltrexone confused with Naloxone.. The implant was the Naltrexone though. Sounded similar in my mind. Also I like that it seems to have something to do more with the pleasure center of the brain and the Bac gives the calming needed to stay sober. It sounds like a good combo since I drink or do drugs based on cravings of pleasure along with using it as a coping crutch for anxiety/nervousness,etc. If I don't have much luck with Bac alone i'm going to give the combo a try.

[KatieSmiles]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

Yes Rudy, I think we all do have the same goal.

My observation is that Baclofen seems to work faster than Naltrexone for many, but I also see there are those who are still struggling after what seems months? I wonder where they would be in this struggle to be free of the chains of addiction if they had spent that time trying Naltrexone instead.

I also see on the TSM forums those who aren't having great success with Nal after many months and I am wondering if I should point them this way for more Baclofen information. Anxiety seems to play a big role in addiction and it seems that Baclofen really helps those who suffer with it.

[KatieSmiles]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

Tim,
I will try to give you the very basics as I understand.
Naltrexone work by blocking your reward center in the brain. So everytime you drink your brain doesn't get it's "fix". Over time the desire to drink becomes non existant because the brain doesn't see it as anything special. The beauty of this is that you only have to take 50 mg of Naltrexone one hour before drinking, you can take one tablet daily as insurance if you like, but you don't have to.

[Guest]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

Naltrexone is an opiod blocker. It sits in the opiod receptors and stops them [opiates] from entering and exhibiting their effects - ie getting you high. So a drug addict basically will not feel anything if they use opiod based drugs such as heroine, and I think cocaine too it basically becomes a waste of time.

For alcoholics endorphins are released when you drink, those endorphins are taken up by opiod receptors resulting in the 'buzz' you often feel. If you have taken Naltrexone before you drink then you don't feel the effects of the endorphins. For me I felt this fairly quickly and the effect was a dramatic reduction in my intake - basically I'd get bored of drinking. Yes I was tipsy but the 'drive', and 'urge' to chase the buzz was gone. Over time your brain learns that drinking alcohol doesn't give you the buzz any more, and so you stop associating drinking with the high. You break the link and regain control. For me it was pretty quick and some people are genetically predisposed to this method. There are also applications in binge eating and self-harm too, basically both these activities result in endorphin release - which is why sufferers get a 'high' from it. It's thought using Nal removes that buzz and thus over time the addict says "Well what's the point I'm not going to get anything out of it, so I won't bother".

It can take up to 12 months for Naltrexone to work via the Sinclair Method (which is the technique of taking Nal at least 1 hour before everytime you drink), for me it appears to have only taken around 2 months and I saw improvement right from the start. I did get drunk last week for the first time in 2 months, however looking back the desire was within me to push it that day for various reasons and I was able to stop when I realised I wasn't enjoying it any more!

Regards side effects, now I cried like hell on Baclofen found it absolutely intolerable. With Nal all I have had was a bit of nausea right at the start. I have absolutely ZERO SEs, it doesn't affect my sleep, attention span or anything whatsoever. Some people find it does make them violently sick - I used to feel terribly sick all the time on Baclofen, but with Nal it was minor and only for about half an hour during the first few days.

Dosing - most people only need to take 1 x 50mg tablet 1 hour before they drink, and that's it. I used to take 1 tablet every day, now I only take it on days I know I'm going to drink - which is quite rare (apart from last week during exceptional circumstances). I have very few cravings these days too.

Doesn't work for everyone, and it doesn't relieve anxiety. At first I was pretty wired most of the time, but with less and less drinking episodes I've been able to get used to being sober, dealing with life and facing stuff that is going on. It's not easy but I'm improving all the time!My drinking has gone from binges of 20-30 units to moderate then minimal drinking. Most days I'm now AF and not bothered about it, if I drink I might manage 1 or 2 before forgetting to finish the second glass, pouring it away or just going to bed. Often I just feel tired, which I believe is a normal reaction to ingesting a sedative such as alcohol.

I sometimes use Baclofen for sleeping, but generally it makes me groggy in the morning and I don't really need it - I just have a cupboard full of the stuff!

So that's Nal, 1 tab a day with virtually no SEs if it works it's great.

[Guest]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

By the way, you still get 'drunk' on nal - and the lack of buzz can con people into thinking they are ok to drive. Just something to watch out for.

A lot of people also report they are less troublesome, stop being aggressive and are more agreeable when drinking on Nal, even if their intake doesn't decrease.

Costs about ?2 a tablet via Goldpharma - works out at ?60 a month. You can obtain it on private prescription in the UK for about ?1 per tablet (?30 per month) and if I can get it on the NHS the cost will be a fraction of that again. By the way it's licenced for use with alcohol problems in a couple of countries already, and as a result GPs are more open to prescribing than for Baclofen.

[BacloTim]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

Thanks, I think I understand how Naltrexone could work for addiction/alcoholism now. I know I and many other addicts I want to get on meds have big issues with seeking pleasure and not just anxiety problems. Pleasure seeking of that sort literally destroys lives as well as anxiety does. That is a whole other problem to deal with. The pleasure/reward system is just all out of whack and it needs help as well as the gabaergic system which causes extreme anxiety/nervousness. I get it now.. I'll try just the Baclofen for now but I have a strong feeling that Naltrexone could become part of my regimen as well.

EDIT: My uneducated theory is that drugs/alcohol get into the pleasure/reward system and seem like food or sex. As in it is required to survive and be happy. Maybe i'm talking out of my ass but it's what I think.

[KatieSmiles]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

Tim, I agree our pleasure/reward system is out of whack.
I read some where that addicts have trouble feeling pleasure that's why they "chase" it. Non addicts feel pleasure easily, therefore having one or two drinks satisfies them. This could pertain to anything addictive, drugs, alcohol, food, gambling etc.

[tiptronic_ct]

Dear Baclofiends and Nal'ers

OK... so here's my take on all the noise coming from the meds threads and specifically from my fellow bac-heads.

There is a tendency amongst bac-takers to create individual threads. They take up a lot of virtual real estate.

What happened to the good 'ole consolidated threads? There is only so much one can learn from any particular individual journey. I'm hoping it's a fad. Dear Dog, please let it be a fad, because it's getting to me.

You can get the same level of support, or let your voice be heard as effectively in a more communal environment than what we're experiencing here. We're all special and unique. But not that special.

Carry on... as I'm sure you will in any case