Baclofen and Anxiety

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

another bump for newbies and lurkers
Ever since Dr Ameisen reported on the anxiolytic effects of baclofen, numerous members here have reported that baclofen greatly reduces their anxiety.
However, the relationship between alcohol abuse and dependence and baclofen titration and anxiety is not simple and straightforward. Many report episodes of anxiety and depression while titrating up and some report episodes at high doses and after indifference. This thread discusses the issue.

[Eve Gatha]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Cassander, thanks for the nudge to re-engage... it's time. I am currently at 150 mg bac, titrating methodically up over 111 days ("slowly, slowly catchee monkey," I seem to recall some guy/gal suggesting earlier in this forum) I'm under Dr. L's good care, thank Goodness.. speaking to him gives me renewed hope no matter how tough things get! Having SE issues, that's why I'm going slow.

But to the Anxiety issue: mine is multidimensional, for sure. I've recently been diagnosed w/ ptsd, whatever that means since the violence happened years ago. However, my anxiety and alcohol cycle (and other cycles, too) that all begin at that fulcrum point are making so much sense now as I untangle the bindings and recognize the patterns of behavior that have held me prisoner for years. Alcohol has been a Huge part of the glue that held me down in the muck. It's all getting better, especially with the Baclofen.. I truly see and feel the rainbow not too far in the future.

This forum has been tremendous to me as pretty much a "lurker," and now I hope to contribute forward and get a little encouragement myself, since it's getting tougher in the final stretch. Thanks

[Eve Gatha]

Baclofen and Anxiety

And a great thing I notice with the baclofen is that it relieves some general anxiety enough that I can actually "sit with" and observe my intense feelings as they come and go, much easier. In other words, it helps make it easier to not get caught up and lost in the wild ride of my fears and emotions... does that make sense? All my mindfullness meditation is really rewarding on a whole different level, now. I'm LOVING this journey! Thanks to all.

[suneelca]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Eve -- great stuff. I notice the same phenomenon, which tracks with a kind of therapy I'm engaged in called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. It's basically Buddhism, in the sense of teaching one 'in-the-moment' techniques for observing thoughts and trying to be with them and accept them, without necessarily acting upon them. It's mindfulness as you suggest, but not the 'on the couch' variant that I've also tried to practice.

Funny thing is that I'm not sure this would be working with me without Baclofen. Actually, am pretty sure it wouldn't be working. Hard to get in this frame if you're constantly under the influence of a high baseline level of anxiety, no? In any case, great to read your posts, and keep on keeping on.

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Here are some additional reports running over from posts ##1 and 25:


34. Getting There
August 6, 2011
My Way Out

...I started BAC a few weeks ago. ... I have an anxiety problem and I can say that BAC has really helped with that which is the best thing about it for me so far. ... I am patiently waiting for the "switch". I am craving less but it is still there every night. I am 16 days AF. Keep us up to date on your results. It is helpful knowing how other people are doing on BAC.

35. jimmyjam
July 24,2011
My Way Out

I am currently at 50 mg. and not really really seeing any decrease in my cravings. ...I am 44 year old male high pressure sales job. ...approx. 50 units per week. No side effects yet. I work out daily and eat healthy. My drinking is completely related to stress and anxiety. 2 kids and tired of sneaking drinks every evening to feel comfortable. Tried to stop or cut down but cant...

August 6, 2011

A little update seeing i am up at 6 30 am on a saturday morning, which never happens. Not getting as much sleep on bac but i'll take this over being hungover waking up at 9 am anyday. ...Still at 70 mg and going to 90 mg. ...Definitely drinking quite a bit less but cravings are still strong. ...Lastly, i was hoping the bac would reduce my anxiety but that has not happened. Wow, this is the longest message i have left. Its nice to be awake and not hungover so early on a saturday morning (even though i had 5 drinks last night) hoping for more success as i go up on dose. I'm off to do 5 miles on the elliptical. I'm sure i'll end up crashing and needing nap later in day.

36. Texie
August 6, 2011
My Way Out

It’s DAY 12 and still AF. This is truly amazing. I haven’t had any cravings this week and am headed into my 2nd AF weekend. Also, no food cravings and I’m losing weight. Sleep is wonderful! Anxiety is all but gone and I’ve even had my AC go out on a 110 degree day and it looks like there may be foundation damage to my house. Those would have been very anxiety provoking before and sent me running for a drink. Could it really be this easy??? I still have the big tests and that’s two out-of-town trips coming up next week. I’m going on a campus visit with my son and up north on Monday for business. We’ll see how those go.

August 17, 2011

The biggest difference that I think I see with bac is the relief of the anxiety. I used to feel a physical ache deep down beneth my breast bone. It made it hard to breath. Most times when I drank I didn’t really want to get drunk I just wanted that feeling to go away. In fact I often wondered if having my Vagus nerve clipped would stop the anxiety. I tried every AD and Benzo on the market and nothing except AL really worked until now. This is really a miracle. I kept seeing Dr. after Dr. looking for that miracle drug that could “fix” me and I think I may have found it. It really almost makes me cry. ... Oh and BTW I’ve lost 11lbs too. I’m thinking of stockpiling bac in case something happens like an earthquake or hurricane and I can’t get it. I don’t know if bac has affected this too but all of a sudden food is not constantly on my mind, it has turned into just fuel. I enjoy it when I eat but I’m not craving carbs and sweets lately. Hmmmm… could life get any better????

37. Sprat
November 27, 2011
My Way Out

I've been thinking about this thread too. I've been on HDB for 6 months, and my anxiety is through the roof. Why? Everyone else here is saying, I was stressed before bac and drank alot, bac took that away and now i don't need to drink. I've had some real success w/ bac but not switched yet. I'm not going to stop. But some say bac works for people who drink for anxiety, and if bac doesn't work for that then it won't work at all. I exercise a lot, don't work too much, swallow my St. Johns, drink my chamomile tea, read my novels, but am stressed. I always feel I should be somewhere else. If I have free time and go to the beach, I should be studying and I can't enjoy it. If i go to the library to study, I should have stayed home to study, etc. If i go out i should be home, and if at home should be out. Just some examples. Feeling wrong, regret, anxious all the time. How can this be? I know i should try more yoga. Anything else? Any other complementary meds? Any reason i'm on 250 mg of bac and feeling stressed all the time, especially over small things?

38. Suneelca
MWO forum
September 22, 2011

…What I really connected with in Dr. Amiesen's second book is his confirmation that dysphoria and anxiety are the drivers of these addictions, as opposed to the other way around. I've definitely been using these substances to regulate my mood, albeit often unsuccessfully. I think my shrink is great, but even she can get into the psychiatric happy talk about how I should curb certain behaviors, without necessarily exploring what's triggering those behaviors. …When I got hold of her today to ask her to put me on to Baclofen, she did indicate that she has had good results with some of her patients… I half expected her to say she would not let me go past 80mg per day, but she actually indicated that she's taken most of her patients to 250mg and has had them stay there, despite Dr. A's talking about the switch for him at 270 or so mg, and then titrating back down to 100 with 40 when there are certain stressors.
…Beyond the hoped-for reduction in my alcohol intake, I'm hoping it will also help with the chronic anxiety -- although my doc also wants me to taper off the Ativan as I titrate up on the Baclofen. So yes, am trying to temper my expectations, but after a life of hoping for a miracle cure, that's really hard.

So hopefully my journey begins tomorrow. I appreciate what I've read on this board, and hope I'll come to befriend and enjoy your collective support. Moreover, am moved by what I've read, and hope to someday (soon) pay if forward, in 12th step-like fashion.

November 18, 2011

Coming up on the end of my second month in the pool. Quite a ride thus far:

Drinking is down to two to three a night -- with occasional bumps back up … Stopped smoking two weeks ago. …- Still smoking weed, as it seems to moderate the worst side effects, although it too is losing its charge. I think I'm generally feeling less anxious -- my wife and I were having a real bad patch before I started on the Bac, and it's been pretty quiescent since a week after I started. I realize now how much I had been acting out based on persistent anxiety ... and now I guess I'm not. The price I've paid were increasingly severe side effects. Bad somnolence, bad insomnia, constipation, etc. I had titrated up from 20 mg … to 200 by November 4, and … I was pretty much non-functional, which wasn't great, for instance, the other day, when I needed to moderate a session at a conference. No pain, no gain is one thing, but that was getting out of control. So titrated back down to 140 mg, and slept 10 hours last night with only one stretch of waking up in the middle of the night, and am feeling pretty good after four cups of coffee today.

December 10, 2011

Tonight [my wife] said we might be on our way to our first happy holiday as a family ever. How cool is that?


December 26, 2011

I'm in a bit of a Bac-induced stupor much of the time lately, but will attempt to relate where I'm currently at in the hopes that folks who are new to Baclofen or who have been meandering around might find my experience instructive. … I was having SEs in the range between 160 and 200 mg, and have been in the past couple of weeks been bouncing between 120 and 180 mg. And paying for it! … But I'm starting to question this process on a much deeper level. Not in the sense of thinking about not taking Baclofen. Out of the question -- my wife has recently told me that our marriage is back from the brink, and that whatever has happened has given me back to her after being gone for years (like, eight of the nine years we've been together -- guess that first year was a REALLY great year!).

What I've come to realize is that the reason I'm taking Baclofen is less about drinking per se than about ameliorating what had become a crippling level of baseline anxiety.

This expressed itself in a number of ways, from addictive behaviors to years of bad back pain. Much of that has gone since I started Bac -- cigarette smoking, excessive pot smoking, the back pain. I do drink, but even that is down by at least half since I started Bac. In fact, all of this kicked in around 80 mg. While I'm still drinking daily -- two to four glasses of wine a night, I can see how to start having AF nights, as the need to medicate the anxiety, irrespective of consequences, seems to have mostly evaporated. This, to me, is what makes Bac a wonder drug -- especially if the debilitating SEs go away as the body adjusts to the dosage, without seeing a similar reduction in the good effects. Can you imagine getting this level of evenness with a benzo? You'd be so whacked out ...

But I digress. The real point is, I guess that for the moment, I'm not going for hitting the 'switch' -- am going to consolidate the huge gains I've had, and maybe just hang out here indefinitely unless the drink accelerates back up to a bottle-plus of wine per night. We shall see.


39. MurphyX
July 3, 2011
My Way Out

Eventually I realised, the problem wasn’t the amount of baclofen, it was my attitude to it. I expected baclofen to take away my cravings, when in actual fact, all it was doing for me, all it ever could do for me, was reduce my desire for booze, just as it had 5 months ago at 150mg.

The switch doesn’t exist for me. And I think I know why. I don’t suffer from anxiety. I’m not anxious; I never have been, well not as an adult anyway. Except for a period long ago when I was an actor, when I was almost paralysed with fear and tension and loss of concentration and I would be shitting myself on a daily basis (figuratively speaking, not literally…well almost never literally), but once I walked out on to the stage or the set I was absolutely calm and in control. Apart from that time, I have never been even slightly anxious. I don’t worry about things irrationally. I’m not tense. I’m not easily startled. I’ve never had a panic attack. I’m not edgy or irritable, except when drunk. I’m not concerned about how others perceive me. I know that if I have to chat with someone, I can do so easily (although perhaps not when Skyping lol). I’m simply not anxious.

Baclofen is an anxiolytic. It relieves anxiety and panic and it relaxes muscles (another symptom of anxiety). THAT is how you achieve true indifference. THAT is how you switch. If you drink because of anxiety, baclofen can help you to 100% indifference. Anxiety seems to be such a common theme amongst us here. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve read people reporting relief of their anxiety, sometimes even though they didn’t previously even realise they were anxious. But if that’s not the reason you drink, then you won’t permanently switch. You won’t reach 100% indifference. And why I never will, no matter what dosage I go up to.

I suspect those who didn’t suffer from anxiety but who have achieved long-term abstinence, have employed a certain amount of willpower/white-knuckling in order to do so. But nowhere near as much as they would have needed without the assistance of baclofen. Baclofen helps reduce our cravings, even if it doesn’t eliminate them. It worked wonders for me at 150 mg. Many people have reported great results at much lower doses; in extreme cases, even from the very first pill.

Baclofen works, not just for the anxious, but for almost everyone.

Baclofen works, just not in the way we’d all like it to.


40. Ad777
February 7, 2012
My Way Out

Just want to add a bit to the bottom of this thread, am Adam, 49, in Edinburgh Scotland. stopped drinking 4 years ago, but,like every other time i stopped,crippled with anxiety. 2 weeks in to taking bac, and for the first time in 40 years have experienced short bursts of feeling 'relaxed'! freaked out at first because didn't realize what it was. much gratitude to people on this forum, and a couple of other baclofen forums for help,advice,support and encouragement. you know who you are!!!

For the first time ever in my life, I have hope.




.

[suneelca]

Baclofen and Anxiety

It would be interesting to see a clinical trial on baclofen purely in terms of alleviation of anxiety. Does anyone know if that's been a secondary or primary endpoint on any of the studies, other than the 2003 study of veterans with PTSD?

(Not too long ago, had a smack-head-on-wall conversation with MD psychopharmacologist about how I was using alcohol and other stuff to cool down my overactive brain -- in other words, to self-medicate, and wanted to explore what it was that I was medicating. She seemed to look at me as if I were an alien, and seemed to indicate that the drinking itself had become the problem ...)

In the absence of knowing about a cadre of scientists who are plumbing these various questions -- the Amsterdam researchers notwithstanding -- one is left to speculate, of course, about how and why a compound like Baclofen works. Maybe the key is around the relaxation of muscle tension, rather than necessarily correcting Amygdala malfunction per se? As I've indicated, five years of chronic back pain have gone away since I started using Baclofen. Turns out that Baclofen is used to treat lower back pain. Maybe it's that Baclofen doesn't change the fight-or-flight response itself, but does alleviate the chronic muscle tension that makes us feel uncomfortable in our own skins? The kind of feeling that you often hear about in AA, in terms of why people drank / drink?

Enough theorizing. Happy new year, every one -- and may your lives continue to get better and better.

Right up until the world as we know itends on December 21!

[Otter]

Baclofen and Anxiety

There is a radiological term called White Matter Hyperintensities which, if you Google it along with other conditions, is associated with alcoholism, stroke, bipolar etc. Increased White Matter Signal Hyperintensities in Long-Term Abstinent Alcoholics Compared to Non-Alcoholic Controls

I don't claim to understand the significance of this but interestingly there seems to be some involvement of this in seizures associated with alcohol withdrawal as per the quoted articles. I think this is interesting because it perhaps gives some support for the idea that it is best to follow Ameisen's method of slow increase of Baclofen accompanied by slow reduction in drinking rather than starting with high dose which leads to rapid withdrawal. Hmmm....

Not that his has anything much to do with anxiety although perhaps it shows how alcohol consumption changes the brain and anxiety is a product of brain chemistry change and not just a mood thing.

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Another bump for newbies and lurkers
Ever since Dr Ameisen reported on the anxiolytic effects of baclofen, numerous members here have reported that baclofen greatly reduces their anxiety.
However, the relationship between alcohol abuse and dependence and baclofen titration and anxiety is not simple and straightforward. Many report episodes of anxiety and depression while titrating up and some report episodes at high doses and after indifference. This thread discusses the issue. You are all welcome to participate.

[suneelca]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Thanks, as always, Cassander, for this thread.

This is a re-check, so to speak, on what's been on this thread, and particularly what you describe as 'episodes' of anxiety and depression. I am experiencing such an episode of recurrent anxiety and back pain, which has me worried.

I went up as high as 200mg but have titrated back down to 120mg because of some self-induced wackiness involving other meds / substances. I think am now stabilizing in terms of SEs, thanks to a chat Sunday with Dr. L -- he identified that Baclofen may not be mixing well with Seroquel, which have been using for sleep. In fact, it may not be helping with sleep and is adding to somnolence. And on Tuesday, I had my first AF night since starting on Baclofen some three months ago -- and, as suggested by others, had a relative SE-less day yesterday. Fancy that!

But have noticed that muscle tension and anxiety are creeping back in. The anxiety isn't driving a lot of negative behaviors ... yet. And it isn't having an effect on addictive behaviors (although did notice a pang to smoke cigarettes a couple of hours ago, which haven't had in some weeks since quitting two or so months ago).

I know that everyone's experience varies. And this could be an, er, um SE of tapering off on the Seroquel. I know everyone's experience varies. I haven't hit the switch per se, yet, although I wasn't exactly white-knuckling my way through that AF night. So here's my question for those who feel comfortable sharing -- assuming a stable dose, if you have experienced periods of anxiety, have those gone away? Or have they stayed with you? If they have gone away, for how long did you experience those episodes of transitional anxiety, and how did you handle them?

[LadyLush]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Hi Sune and everyone,

I had started taking Celexa, L-Glut, and other stuff with the Baclofen about 2 months ago. I began to feel like crap and the anxiety attacks came back 10 fold.
I have decided to go to Baclofen only and the anxiety subsided. I feel great again.
I wanted to add that I am a constant worrier. Baclofen helps me tremendously in that area. I want to say worry is a side effect of depression for me as well as adds to my anxiety. I have never had anything that helps me in both areas as well as Baclofen.
The Celexa seemed to be on a collision course with the Bac and I feel sane again going off of it.

Anyway, good luck Sun and thanks again Cass for this thread.

LL:l

[suneelca]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Thanks, LL! That seems to be the upshot of what you write and what others, including Ne/Neva Eva have said. Sort of go back to Bac pretty much only, and let it do its magic. Really appreciate the quick feedback and the note of hope.

One qualifier -- I'm not sure the anxiety has returned per se. But the muscle tension has, and that's the 'crawling out of one's skin' feeling that I think a lot of people in AA describe. I can't really associate the muscle tension with anything. What's interesting is that my mind then goes hunting for a reason ... and when you go looking for something, does one generally find it (including making $#!t up)?

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

suneelca;1239486 wrote: ... But the muscle tension has, and that's the 'crawling out of one's skin' feeling that I think a lot of people in AA describe. I can't really associate the muscle tension with anything. What's interesting is that my mind then goes hunting for a reason ... and when you go looking for something, does one generally find it (including making $#!t up)?

Sune - - humor me and try drinking a bottle of water when you have the crawling feeling. Let me know how (or if) it works.

Cass

[suneelca]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Interestingly, I was opening up the top of a bottle of sparkling water just as I read that! Unfortunately (or not!), not having that 'crawling out of the skin' feeling -- but will try it next time.

[Eve Gatha]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Hi Cass n Sun,
Big Yes to the water cure! These references to recurrent muscle tension and "crawling out of your skin" strike a real chord. (I typically also have back-neck-jaw clenching tension, too.)
So, something strange I've noticed as I titrate up on bac (maybe cause it's a muscle relaxer?) is that my underlying muscle tension seems to be manifesting lately as this crazy, Intense Need to stretch every muscle, joint and part of my body imaginable. (Mostly in private, so as not to frighten the neighbors :H ) It just feels incredibly good to work and release body tension... and my flexibility in holding yoga/dance type poses hasn't been this extreme in years!!
The point is, this physical stretching to new limits helps relieve that awful tension that creeps up at times.
I'm also finding since on bac that slow, mindful, perfect form strength training (with a trainer) is working wonders along the same lines. Also, a bit of cardio always takes the edge off, too
It seems the multiple benefits of these practices are somehow being "amped up" to a new level with the baclofen effects. It's like they're all synergistically working towards some greater overall healing :h Feels good, anyway!
Anyone else notice this heightened body-tension connection with baclofen?

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Hi Eve

There is so much wisdom squirrelled away on the meds forum on all of the issues suggested by your response.

For example, many have commented on baclofen's effect on their energy, their "connectedness" to their bodies, their desire to work out or run or not work out or not run and what a "muscle relaxer" has to do with anxiety reduction and/or increase. In many ways it is still a quite unfathomable drug.

As many have commented the search function on mwo doesn't work very well, but if you hunt around you'll find lots of interesting insights on these issues.

Best,

Cass