Baclofen and Anxiety

[bleep]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Baclofen can change that Time. That's how it works - it changes the way you think about booze. Keep up your reading, there is a lot of wisdom to be found in these threads!

Well done on the AF nights, may there be many more! Best of luck.

[timetochangeforme]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Thanks bleep. I'll keep reading. I hope it changes my thinking. I was going to not buy wine last night but I ended up going to the store, so I guess it hasn't really yet. I know I can do it, I've done it before, and I know I start to see how I like many things much better without alcohol. Maybe with baclofen it'll be different this time. I'm still at a very low dose I know.

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

I added another report of the relationship between baclofen and its ability to reduce anxiety in alcoholics. For a complete list see posts #1 and #25 in this thread.

I would also like to re-invite any regular poster or lurker or newbie who has anything of interest to report regarding their experience with chronic anxiety, alcoholism and baclofen to post here in this thread.

Thanks!

[Bruunhilde]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Hi there!

I'm using baclofen and gabapentin for anxiety. I have severe anxiety from out-of-body experiences under duress to electric whole body shocks that feel like electrical zaps that I feel from my chest to my finger tips as a terrific jolt.

I find relief from baclofen if I keep going up in dose as my tolerance increases. I was doing well on 20mg/night but now at 40-50mg/night to control these things.

I have found gabapentin elevates my mood while baclofen relaxes my entire body.

[gratitude]

Baclofen and Anxiety

I had a realization the other day... I used to suffer from great depression at the end of my drinking career but now that I'm sober the depression has lifted completely and the underlying anxiety has surfaced. I believe I've had the anxiety since childhood but I was able to cover it up early on by not taking any real chances in life. then I found alcohol and my life changed for the better for a long time. finished college, took some risks, made some great friends,etc. then the drinking went south and you guys know the alky story. downhill. at great speed. massive depression.
fast forward to sobriety and now I suffer from great anxiety at times. I think the drinking masked my anxiety all these years and the depression was from the alcohol. anyway, long winded way of saying that my alcoholism and anxiety go hand in hand. so far, I can control the anxiety by massive amounts of exercise. no BAC yet. I'm planning on calling the good doctor this winter after I've done a month long hike in sept. I want to go low dose and see if it'll cure my anxiety like I've seen a few on MWO do. I seem to be able to do the rest of sobriety fairly easily now, after 4 years. only want to drink when I have massive panic attacks. be well, grat.

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

gratitude;1155129 wrote: ...I can control the anxiety by massive amounts of exercise. no BAC yet. I'm planning on calling the good doctor this winter after I've done a month long hike in sept. I want to go low dose and see if it'll cure my anxiety like I've seen a few on MWO do...

Grat, you should really buy and read "Spark", a book written by Dr John Ratey. It explores the relationship between exercise and anxiety, as well as other emotional and mental health, as well as cognitive ability, issues, including alcohol and drug abuse and addiction. Its easily available on Amazon. Its a fascinating read. And yes, he says that exercise absolutely does work. I think I'll go out and take a run right now!

[LadyLush]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Cass,
I had a meeting today. I had to do everything on the board. I had adversity that in the past would have made me pass the baton (sp?). I never let up. It is the Baclofen that gives me the strength I never had. I won once again. Anxiety killed me. Baclofen wins that fight hands down.

LL

[gratitude]

Baclofen and Anxiety

cass,
thanks for the "spark" recommendation. I'll check it out.

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

For economy, I have moved all of the "anxiety reports" to posts #1 and #25 in this thread

[Otter]

Baclofen and Anxiety

The big issue here is not whether Baclofen is a treatment or a cure for alcoholic craving or anxiety or compulsive behaviour or manic behaviour or....

The really big issue is that there is what is now being described as a "paradigm shift". This means that there is a move away from looking at behaviour as flowing from choices and "will" towards an understanding that behaviour is "caused", if you will allow me to use that word for the moment, by the brain interpreting input from our senses and from within our brain and bodies and turning it into "output" or behaviour.

The amygdala seems to play a very important role in this and I don't claim to understand it. However, the offshoot of this is there is a lot of emphasis now on this part of the brain in relation to various types of abnormal behaviour and it seems, to me, that Baclofen plays an important role because it can calm this area of the brain and return it to "normal", again, excuse the word.

So, the question for me is not whether it works on anxiety, but how it works. Flowing from this, is this all that needs to be looked at in terms of whatever "mental" condition you are looking at or is there something beyond this, for instance, some other form of medication or changes in diet, ie., to stem hypoglycaemia?

Of course, we differ from other animals in that we possess a cerebral cortex so we have higher thought processes and these may result in us approaching problems in our lives with a particular perspective which we have possibly learned and maybe this gets us into trouble and makes us drink, become anxious. It is hard to do this, though, while one's brain is not treated and not acting "normally". I suppose by "normal" I just mean in a calm non anxious, non addicted stated.

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Bump to say that I have added a few more reports to post #25. Not everyone finds immediate or eventual relief from anxiety in their baclofen journey, but many do. Here's hoping that through the twin miracles of the Internet and Dr A's discovery more people who could be helped find their way here.

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Otter;1162815 wrote: There is a clear evidence that the amygdala is at the center of all sorts of anxiety disorders, as well as addiction

Rutgers University, Newark - Neuroscience Research

Anxiety and the Amygdala

I also found this video:

Anxiety and Your Amygdala | Anxiety Guru | Hope and Healing

Some here say they don't suffer from "anxiety" as such. However, this part of the brain plays a part in memory as well. Some drink to forget!

Also, alcohol calms the amygdala so you get a sense of euphoria from it which is why others drink.

It all comes back to this part of the brain.

It appears that all "mental illness" relates to a neurological issue so that Baclofen has a wide application in a number of illnesses.

We are moving towards a day when terms like "mental illness" and even alcoholism don't make much sense because we will look at the underlying disorder of the brain and then treat it.

I am reposting Otter's post today here under Baclofen and Anxiety. Thanks, Otter!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen and Anxiety

I'm not posting here, but I am listening! Glad you got on that so quickly, Cass! There is some really good info related to bac/anxiety (but not explicit) from the Rutgers studies, I think.

[Otter]

Baclofen and Anxiety

With this study and others we have seen that the amygdala features in the following:

Alcoholism
Cocaine addiction
Heroine addiction
Autism New Version of an Old Drug Could Treat Autism (and Addiction Too) – TIME Healthland
OCD
Social phobias
Agrophobia
Bipolar and depressoin http://www.neurotransmitter.net/bipolaramygdala.html
Post traumatic stress disorder

Cass, talk about shouting out from the roof tops.

What happens to soldiers coming home?

The Rutgers article says:

According to the National Institute of Mental Health, nearly 40 million American adults each year experience an anxiety disorder. These include such debilitating conditions as phobias, panic disorders and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Left untreated, anxiety disorders can lead to myriad problems that hinder daily life and ones that can ruin it altogether, such as drug abuse, alcoholism, unemployment, marital problems and suicide.
Functional imaging studies in combat veterans have revealed that the amygdala, a cerebral structure of the temporal lobe known to play a key role in fear and anxiety, is hyperactive in PTSD subjects. Turns out that the amygdala, however, also contains a population of cells that if properly stimulated could potentially eliminate fear memories and reduce anxiety.


If this can be effectively treated with Baclofen then that is something to shout about and for the press to take an interest in. Baclofen is the only medication which is a Gaba B analogue and calms the amygdala and is non addictive.

After all, what happens to a lot of veterans with this problem? They end up on alcohol or dugs. Is it a surprise. Then it goes from bad to worse because they are criminalized, brutalized and ostrasized. Instead of recognizing that these people and millions like them have had their fear mechanism damaged, they are made more fearful.

If you do know anyone in the press, this Rutgers study combined with what we now know about the role of Baclofen in treating this illness is surely of huge national and worldwide importance.

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Giving some more thought to all of these complex, interrelated questions of anxiety, addiction, the amygdala, treatment and recovery...if you are interested, please walk along beside me...I apologize in advance for my proclivity towards long, rambling written exercises...

It seems clear having studied the subject informally (with myself as the subject) more or less for a lifetime, and intensely for the last year, that anxiety is often implicated in the decision to drink. (I understand that across populations there may be many root causes underlying the decision to drink and for some of us anxiety does not seem to be the main driver. )

No question but that for many of us who suffer from anxiety, alcohol is a terrific anxiolitic. Problem is, alcohol has way too many "side effects", it loses effectiveness with abuse and it is addictive. If dependence develops, it can be destructive. Nevertheless, for many of us with chronic anxiety it is the only treatment around. It is cheap, and if you are over 21 it is legal, and if you are under 21 it is widely available. Initially, at least, it works.

When you think about it from the following perspective our society's attitude towards alcohol is pretty shocking. There is abundant evidence that alcohol is addictive to some and that a significant proportion of us who drink will abuse and/or become dependent upon alcohol, taking a huge toll or cost not only on ourselves but on society.

Nevertheless, society chooses to look at alcohol as a crap shoot: as individuals and as a society we are not really educated about the dangers of alcohol abuse and dependence. Initially, we have no clue why we drink or what the possible consequences of drinking are. Our parents drink. Our friends drink. Our fraternity brothers drink. The alcohol industry spends millions on advertising. We get the message. So we drink. One goes to college or turns 21 or walks into a bar and there it is. Society's message: Go for it and see what happens...Society then treats the unfortunate consequences for those who become dependent with a massive criminal law infrastructure and an alcohol treatment infrastructure based, essentially, on the two-legged stool of wilful abstention. The resources applied to these responses are enormous, in the hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars.

At least here in the US, the main educational effort addressed to beginning drinkers is MADD: Mothers Against Drunk Driving. But when you think about it, all MADD is really saying is "Don't drink and drive." Implicitly, it accepts the following underlying lottery proposition: of 100 21 year olds, about 70 will try alcohol. About 50 of them will binge drink in their 20s and of them, 20 will become heavy drinkers. Of those 20, many, if not most, will develop the problems we are struggling with on this board. But, so long as you don't drink and drive, its ok. (Here are the statistics on alcohol use in the US: Chapter 3. Alcohol Use - 2001 Summary of Findings)

Together with the other costs of alcohol abuse and dependence, such as lost productivity, illness and family breakdown, the cost to society of running this lottery is stupendous. And the response is largely totally ineffective! I have found very little evidence that addiction is successfully treated by criminal conviction or incarceration and the real record of the rehab industry is quite opaque. There is no question that AA works for some but there is also plenty of evidence that the relapse rate is overwhelming. I have seen the statistic that the real recovery rate for treatment involving life training and social support (ie, 12 step or AA) may be as low as 5%.

While I'm on the subject of AA, it seems to me that (as well-intentioned as the true-believers are) the idea that a disease that can be attributed to chemical imbalances in the brain can best (or only) be treated by what boils down to group prayer is beyond comprehension...at least to me. The evidence on this board seems to be to the contrary: that group prayer (AA) isn't effective (or sufficient), but when combined with a medication (baclofen), which addresses the chemistry of the brain, relief from the disease of alcoholism can be achieved. If not for all, for many.

So...back to anxiety...and the amygdala...and baclofen. If it turns out to be simply true that many of us drink to deal with anxiety and/or other mental health issues...and if it turns out that baclofen (or even better compounds still to be discovered) effectively not only address chemical imbalances in the amygdala to eliminate the desire to drink and the resulting abuse and dependence but also address the underlying anxiety or other condition which causes us to drink in the first place...then can't all of the social costs of alcoholism -- the costs of the criminal enforcement industry, the "rehabilitation" industry, the medical treatment industry that addresses the results of alcohol abuse (in physical and mental disease such as heart disease and depression)-- be avoided?

From the point of view of the big picture, couldn't/shouldn't all of the resources currently devoted to ineffectively treating the consequences of alcoholism be devoted to avoiding the disease in the first place? And perhaps to solving other of the pressing problems we have in the world today?