Baclofen and Anxiety

[rangiatea]

Baclofen and Anxiety

seems to me Im ok with anxiety on low dose bacs. Bacs seems effective,but take some time to be effective. Its not like benzos where anxiety relief is is quick. Also never take too much at once as it,may increase anxiety,herat rate,blood pessure,etc with dissocation,hallucinations,paranoia,euphoria.Baclo fen is a GABA B agonist with phenethylamines mixture.The phenethylamine effect goes away with time,leaving GABA B to work its anticraving job. This is why u need to SLOWLY increase dose. Sudden sharp increase in dose is asking for trouble. Also also step down slowly as well or risk horrid withdrawals esp at high doses many of u guys are taking. Stay safe !

[Otter]

Baclofen and Anxiety

That is very interesting. Never heard it explained that way before. Thanks.

[terryk]

Baclofen and Anxiety

rangiatea;1222753 wrote: seems to me Im ok with anxiety on low dose bacs. Bacs seems effective,but take some time to be effective. Its not like benzos where anxiety relief is is quick. Also never take too much at once as it,may increase anxiety,herat rate,blood pessure,etc with dissocation,hallucinations,paranoia,euphoria.Baclo fen is a GABA B agonist with phenethylamines mixture.The phenethylamine effect goes away with time,leaving GABA B to work its anticraving job. This is why u need to SLOWLY increase dose. Sudden sharp increase in dose is asking for trouble. Also also step down slowly as well or risk horrid withdrawals esp at high doses many of u guys are taking. Stay safe !
Otter;1221535 wrote: There is just too much talk here about whether SSRIs or Baclofen treat this or that word, anxiety, depression, etc. Drugs treat the brain, not words. Baclofen treats the amygdala and limbic systems. SSRI's are reuptake inhibitors, whatever that means or good it does. They stop serotonin from "escaping", that is, if your drinking has left you with any serotonin to escape, which is unlikely.

Bipolar is a disorder of the amygdala so Baclofen would work on that. http://pediatricbipolar.stanford.edu...ala_BD_dev.pdf

The question is, why would Baclofen not work on bipolar and is it just another variation of "anxiety" which is treated with Baclofen? Manic - anxious, same thing?

Phenylethylamine-like properties of baclo... [Neuropsychobiology. 1983] - PubMed - NCBI

Neuropsychobiology. 1983;9(4):219-22.
Phenylethylamine-like properties of baclofen.
Wolf ME, Keener S, Mathis P, Mosnaim AD.
Abstract

Baclofen therapy resulted in improvement of dyskinesias only in patients with trunkal tardive dyskinesia. However, the appearance of undesirable side effects did not warrant continuation of treatment with this drug. Baclofen did not have any therapeutic effect in schizophrenia and moreover a trend towards a worsening of the psychiatric conditions with irritability, assaultiveness and prominent auditory hallucinations was observed. The effects of baclofen on tardive dyskinesia and schizophrenia can be explained in terms of its phenylethylamine-like properties.

PMID:
6646393
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


From the full-text: Baclofen is postulated to inhibit dopamine transmission, be an antagonist of Substance P, and an agonist of PEA. Of 10 patients in the study 5 were schizophrenic, 4 were bipolar, 1 organic mental disorder. Baclofen caused mania and irritability in 2 of the bipolar patients (each respectively), and varied amounts of irritability, assaultiveness, and hallucinations in 4 of the schizophrenic patients.

-tk

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen and Anxiety

oops. That was it. I should have read the full version! Sorry.

[suneelca]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Interesting stuff. As have otherwise indicated, my brother is a neurologist who runs a research institute focusing on rehabilitative neuroscience, and this gives me even more reason to want to chat about Baclofen with him. Also because I think that the amygdala dysfunction underlying my issues is also at play with what's happened with other members of our family. Will be interesting to see whether it's something he thinks is worth discussing.

My wife is becoming more and more convinced that Baclofen is a wonder drug. Interestingly, she's a neurobiologist by training. I haven't discussed the degree to which amygdala dysfunction may have played a role in our family's near-miss disintegration -- but that disintegration clearly has been an issue! Tonight she said we might be on our way to our first happy holiday as a family ever. How cool is that?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen and Anxiety

suneelca;1223282 wrote: Tonight she said we might be on our way to our first happy holiday as a family ever. How cool is that?
That is very, very, very cool. Rock on.

rangiatea;1223606 wrote: I dont have schizophrenia. My episode with 90-100 mg bac was an OD some 2 months ago. Yes there were vivid colorful visuals mainly closed eyed with some open eyed effects. Also childhood memories and stuff like that. No agressiveness,no real audio hallucinnations and only brief mild paranoia/anxiety in mostly euphoric mood ad very clear sensorium. But dont try this urself as it can lead to real OD with agitation,convulsions endind in deep coma and possibly death. I got caught as my pupils were dilated. I am now taking 10 mg TID under supervison.

There's an article/paper/study somewhere that says that the kind of reaction you have can happen to people without major mental illness but that it quickly resolves when the bac is removed, or when the proper dose is restored. It's probably the same one that Terryk cited below. He'll correct me, I hope, if I'm wrong. I'm glad that you've gotten some supervision and have a plan! And yes, I'd agree, ODing is not such a good idea. Glad you're alright.

[terryk]

Baclofen and Anxiety

rangiatea;1223606 wrote: I dont have schizophrenia.

I didn't mean to suggest that you do. My post was a response to the idea that baclofen may be useful in treating bipolar disorder and other mental illness.

I'm very familiar to what happens when you take too much baclofen at once, PM me if you want to hear about it.

-tk

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen and Anxiety

That is an awful thread. Edit: But good. A good awful thread.
You're on the agenda, just sos you know. Prepare for the barrage.

[redhead77]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Sunleeca, this is very good news about your brother. If you can bring the info back to share with us, it would be most appreciated. I know some neurologists as well, and I've been trying to think of a way to gather more information. I wouldn't want to share that I was on it, or what I was taking it for, so I'd have to concoct a story. I worry I wouldn't be successful in hiding it. I have thought of maybe another way, but I'll wait a bit to see if you're able to get some info.

I first started suffering from anxiety when I was very young. I, of course, didn't know the label for my feeling. Mine was in direct relation to blood sugar problems. I was diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia in the 3rd grade. I think this was a diagnosis given to many in the 80s, and later it was labeled a fad. Not in my case. My curve was pronouned, and I continue with it (except when I'm pregnant, in that case I turn diabetic.) I see an endocrinologist, who tells me the hypoglycemia I experience, is really a prediabetic state. My pancreas is overactive and trying to essentially burn out. It's most likely a matter of time. I do much to try to put time on my side. I maintain a stellar diet, supps, and exercise (gluten in my case causes anxiety too). I do so well on my own, that he doesn't feel the need to put me on an oral agent to try to preserve it. I digress, but I continue to experience anxiety when my blood sugar is low. I have read up to 90% of alcoholics have faulty sugar metabolism. They don't know if it's something the alcoholics are born with, or if drinking for so many years causes the hypoglycemia. I know in my case it's both. I was born with it, and later found that booze, which is metabolized like sugar, quickly stopped the feelings of anxiety when my sugar was low. It worked faster than food since it's a liquid. We all know that booze, in and of itself, has anxiolytic effects for many of us too. It also made my hypoglycemia worse. Sugar and booze causes a viscious cycle.

Later, I found myself with a different kind of anxiety. Social anxiety, I guess. I started noticing it in my teens, when I went to parties or with dating. These were the first days I dabbled with booze. I didn't tolerate booze well, so I would get drunk and fast from a small amount. I was never the drinker who could drink everyone under the table. My friends would comment on it. Three beers and I would pass out or get sick. It's almost like I was allergic. Why didn't I just avoid it? I don't know, I guess because it worked in some ways to ease my anxiety, and of course there's peer pressure. I already knew I was genetically predisposed to alcoholism (deep in my gut I knew it would eventually be a big problem.) This pattern continued somewhat into my early 20s, but my tolerance did increase, and I would binge drink. When I say I've only been an alcoholic for a couple of years, I guess it's true, but I had a very unhealthy pattern from just about the time I first drank...which was anxiety driven.

My anxiety got worse in my 30s. I think much of it was is in direct relation to my life, and what I was dealing with at home. I started taking Xanax (and Lexapro), as was prescribed for me. I also started drinking very heavily. Without going into it too much, I've written about it recently, I was starting to mostly use my Xanax to ease the severe anxiety I felt the day after I drank. It definately made it worse. Again, a viscious cycle. I stumbled on the forum around this time. I was able to get five 20 mg pills of bac as a test. It was almost instant relief I felt on 15 mg a day. I started working with Dr L, and really for the first time in my life, I noticed my social/situational anxiety was gone...until recently.

I switched at 240 mg of bac at the end of October. I was starting to feel anxious on the higher numbers, but then it just came on full force. I don't even know how to explain it. It was so bad, I had a hard time doing anything. I felt I was in panic mode, and like I wanted to jump out of my skin. I would obsess about all sorts of things. I would obsess a lot about what I'd written here. I could never be sure if it was okay, I mostly felt that it wasn't. I wanted to delete just about everything I wrote, or at a minimum, spent a ton of time editing it. I was also obsessing about things at home and work. Maybe I should have done this, or maybe this would have been better. I felt paralyzed by my fear of everything. A couple of times I was so worked up, I felt like I should leave work. This is absolutely no way to live, and I'd get even more anxious thinking about it. In the last few weeks, I started medicating myself with the Xanax I have here from my years of taking it. I noticed almost immediate relief. I was also a little worried with everything being written lately about benzos (especially Xanax) and cross addiction. Even though I've never gotten addicted before, I don't want to play Russian Roulette. I talked with Dr L about it at my last appt. When I told him my symptoms, I asked him if he's seen this before. He said, YES, I have. There's no doubt it's a SE from HDB. He believes Xanax is the best way to treat it at this point. He also doesn't believe we can get addicted to Xanax on HDB. I have a fresh script for it. How long will it last? He thinks it will work itself out, and I shouldn't have dropped my dose because of it. I'm down to 210 now (I didn't just drop my dose because of this, but I don't want to hijack your thread.) We all know what he thinks about the switch dose, and staying on it.


*I'm not taking an AD right now. I have battled depression (mostly situational), as well as anxiety at different times in my life. I've taken norpramine (before SSRIs were used), Prozac (in my late teens and that's a story, it put me over the edge.), Lexapro, and Wellbutrin. The tricyclics and the SSRIs didn't work for me. In fact, they made me worse. Wellbutrin was the best drug for me, but now I don't need anything. I'm not depressed since being on baclofen.

I hope this post wasn't too long, Cass.

EDIT: If any of you read this already, I meant to write, we CANNOT get addicted to Xanax on bac. It read wrong! And this post really is long. I'm thinking I want to edit it more. :H

[Cassander]

Baclofen and Anxiety

redhead77;1223933 wrote:

I hope this post wasn't too long, Cass.

Hi Red,

Thanks very much for this important contribution. Of course, its not too long. I have also added it to posts #1/#25, together with Sprat's and Ne's recent observations about anxiety while going up on HDB. Its hard to discern any patterns, though.

Cass

[suneelca]

Baclofen and Anxiety

One really interesting thing I noticed last night is that the persistent back pain and sciatica I've had over the past five years -- leading up and in the wake of two spinal disk surgeries in 2006 -- is gone since I started taking baclofen. Early on, the pain got worse, and just realized that I hadn't felt any at all in the past six weeks.

The problems started during a really high stress / anxiety period, and have continued over the past five as stress, including our having a baby, has increased, as has the drinking. Plus trying all sorts of various meds to deal with various mental-health-related diagnoses, including an anxiety disorder. What bakes my noodle is what might have happened if I had been prescribed Baclofen back when those troubles started. (There have now been studies that have shown that after one year, the result for people with disk problems is the same, either with surgery or other treatment modalities, such a steroid injections and physical therapy. Could I have avoided surgery, which turned into two surgeries in eight days? Who knows?)

Is this associated with the alleviation of the muscle tension that Dr. A prescribed? This thought may be completely out of left field, but does Bac work to alleviate anxiety in those of us in which it's manifested as muscle tension? Someone really needs to do a lot of research on this compound. Didn't I read somewhere that there is a new on-patent drug that has the same mechanism of action as Bac -- wonder what's coming out of those efficacy trials, if that exists, and what their endpoints are? What's the intended use, again, if that exists?

On another note, spoke with my MD shrink yesterday about Bac. Asked her again why she had suggested it, and it was based on her reading what literature there was, and becoming intrigued by it, even though the studies to date have had small samples. She did note that the maximum many docs will prescribe is in the 60 to 80 mg range, but the studies she read (including the Amiesen first-personer that was published in Alcohol and Alcoholism?) had talked about going up to 250 mg, which is what she has prescribed (am at 180). I asked her about the experience of her other patients, and she indicated that she's only prescribed it for two or three. I have described it to her on two occasions as a miracle drug that has an effect way beyond my drinking ...

[SabbyATL]

Baclofen and Anxiety

sunleeca - this post gives me hope!

[Bruunhilde]

Baclofen and Anxiety

Baclofen totally helps my sciatica at 40-50mg/day.

[suneelca]

Baclofen and Anxiety

redhead -- just re-read your post. Needed a second time as it's very rich. It's amazing what you've lived through! I think we're all like fine Italian cars. High performers, high maintenance.

[c0ffee]

Baclofen and Anxiety

cassander, what borough do you live in?