Baclofen on the Radio

[Murphyx]

Baclofen on the Radio

My spell-checker is set to British English, why aren't yours?

[ignominious]

Baclofen on the Radio

Firefox - Options - Advanced - Spellchecker checked but no options for English or Yank that I can see

[Murphyx]

Baclofen on the Radio

Hmmmm, everything on my 'puter, whether it be Word, browsers etc is set to BE. Not sure how or why. I'm sure some young person can chip in and explain it to us.

[terryk]

Baclofen on the Radio

Murphyx;1143701 wrote: Hmmmm, everything on my 'puter, whether it be Word, browsers etc is set to BE. Not sure how or why. I'm sure some young person can chip in and explain it to us.

British English dictionary for Firefox:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/british-english-dictionary/

-tk (40 years young)

[Cassander]

Baclofen on the Radio

It takes real courage to do what you guys and my son are doing: to start the baclofen course without the approval of the medical establishment. It is a daunting thing.

Case in point: My wife and I have been worried sick about our 22 year old son's drinking. Over the past three years he has metamorphosed from our shy, sweet, handsome young man who had never been in one speck of trouble going off to college to a very confused, angry and unhappy young man who has now had four serious, alcohol-related encounters with the police, including overnight jail and criminal charges (the worst of which has been thankfully dismissed, although after much trauma and delay and expense).

The medical establishment has had no answers. Last fall, a psychologist and a psychiatrist recommended a 30 day rehab and we (son included) went along with it. Thirty days and thirty thousand dollars later, the answer was: You are an alcoholic. There is no treatment. You must go to AA 90 times in the next 90 days and then you must go for the rest of your life. The family doctor washed his hands of it. A psychiatrist in the next town wanted $500 an hour to prescribe anti-depressants. Our son tried AA, he tried real hard, but it turned him off. He couldn't relate.

Then, last fall we came across Dr A's book. I couldn't believe it. Dr A describes the same kind of crushing anxiety that our son was describing. Our son had kept saying, "Its not like I want to drink. Its this anxiety that won't go away. Then I go to a party with my buds and I have a few beers and I feel normal, for the first time all day or all week. But then I can't stop. I drink too much and I get in trouble. I don't want to but I can't help it." This sounded so much like what Dr A was saying...it was uncanny.

So we went back to the medical community and tried to find a doctor or alcohol treatment specialist who would prescribe baclofen. Nobody would. Most had never heard of it. Some (experienced professionals, mind you) said things like, "There is no such thing as anxiety separate and apart from depression, its just the flip side. You treat it with anti-depressants." Our son reports no benefit, zero, from anti-depressants. Another comment from an eminent psychiatrist, "Baclofen is a narcotic. It is dangerous." From an experienced alcohol treatment therapist, "Baclofen? I have never heard of it. It won't cure the anxiety. You have to get behind the anxiety and treat that." So how do we do that? "AA is the only way. He has to get back to AA."

After six months of "therapy" and anti-depressants and painful AA advice our son's mood was terrible. To the extent he could describe what he was going through, it was clear it was the anxiety that was killing him. Then, a month ago he had another arrest - - for DUI. And another night in jail.

He and we were devestated. It was clear to me that the medical establishment has no answers. The rehab, the psychiatrists, the anti-depressants, the therapy -- none of it was working. All stupid little bandaids. To the extent our son was not drinking, he was doing it the old-fashioned way, white-knuckling pure and simple. And when the anxiety became overwhelming, he drank. And drank.

I pulled Dr A's book off the shelf and read it again. Again I was struck by the similarity in the description of his anxiety and my son's. I showed it to my wife. Why doesn't the medical establishment try this? I wondered and wondered. We are watching a perfectly good young life be destroyed by the bull-headedness of the medical establishment and the alcohol treatment community and by the criminal justice system and no body will even try this very persuasive course of action that Dr A had discovered.

Finally we discussed it with our son and gave him Dr A's book. He said he was open to trying baclofen. He underlined the portions of Dr A's narrative that resonated with him. I remembered that I had seen this forum and that Dr L was willing to talk to patients over the phone. I googled his phone number and called him. He talked to me and then he talked to my son.

He said, "Young man. This drug really works. It works for people like you with anxiety. It will work for you."

We had no problem getting a prescription from Dr L filled at the local Walgreen's. That was a month ago. Within a week our son reported feeling much better. He said, "The anxiety is way down. Sometimes its not there at all. Sometimes I don't feel it. For the first time in my life I don't have this tightness in my chest. This feeling of dread. Now I know what normal is. I never felt normal before."

Well, F**K. F**K, F**K, F**K.

I am not given to expletives as a way of expressing myself. But F**K.

I don't know whether baclofen is the most amazing placebo of all time or if it really works. But our son reports, now after a month, that his anxiety levels are way down. We believe he has had some beers with friends, but he seems not to have been drunk. I am not going to say everything is perfect, because its not. He still is very angry at how things have turned out and I will admit he has difficulty looking himself in the eye and accepting responsibility. He is still facing the consequences of his binge, including unresolved (but resolvable) alcohol related legal charges in 3 jurisdictions. So he may not be out of the woods, but he is so much better!!!!

As many of you know, I have collected as much information as I could find on this board about baclofen and anxiety and there "seems" to be an amazing correlation. Many many of the descriptions are similar to Dr A's and my son's.

There must be something here.

We'll see.

Dr L said, "OA will win a Nobel Prize for his discovery."

We'll see.

[SlipperyPete]

Baclofen on the Radio

Cassander, wow, your story with your son is really touching. He is incredibly lucky to have such understanding, supportive and proactive parents like you and your wife, but you guys seem to have an extremely mature 22 year old! When I was 22 I was definitely not ready to quit drinking, and I had gotten myself into tons of trouble by then.

I wish you guys all the best.

[Bruunhilde]

Baclofen on the Radio

Ditto what Pete said, Cass, you're great parents to a lucky son. He is being helped 25 years earlier than many of us. You can measure regret in years, it seems.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen on the Radio

I responded on your thread, but wanted to do it here too.
Thank you for that post. I can't tell you what it means to me to read it.
:l
Ne

[Lo0p]

Baclofen on the Radio

F**K!



I mean...I concur.

[Life After Addiction]

Baclofen on the Radio

Call me a non-drinking fool then...

"Five minutes of work on top five threads, I bet given an hour I can find a 100 more postings of these two point to dr L. with his 99.5% success rate and "variable fee based on YOUR income".
what a scam lol
Fools are born everyday it seems as PT barnum once said"

Call me a deluded scammed fool then Skeptic. Had I not found Dr. L's contact information in a forum thread on The Sinclair Method, I would still be heavily drinking and isolating in my apartment with no life.

We aren't shills driving up new business for Dr. L. We are enthused, in fact extremely so, because baclofen has freed us from alcoholism. Many of us tried everything to arrest or at least decrease our dependency on alcohol - for years - and were unsuccessful. Through taking baclofen in high doses, within several months time we no longer crave or obsess about alcohol. Miraculous indeed for those of us who stuck it out when experiencing a few to many side effects from the medication.

But this new-found way of living without being a slave to our addiction wouldn't have been possible without Dr. L's willingness to prescribe. I went to ten different internists at Kaiser (where you are allowed to change doctors if you don't want to work with them) beseeching a prescription for high dose baclofen. All of them not only refused my request - and I brought photocopies of Dr. Olivier Ameisen's FAQ as well as a list of links to scientific data about the efficacy of baclofen for alcohol dependence - they also shamed me for asking. Every single one of ten different physicians accused me of wanting to increase my buzz by ingesting high doses of a muscle relaxant. Meanwhile I was in the throes of late-stage alcoholism, estranged from my family, isolating from my friends, hardly able to pay my bills.

Dr. L. is a colleague and friend of Dr. Ameisen. Hence he learned early-on about the sure-fire efficacy of baclofen to arrest alcoholism within a few short months. He also is well aware that physicians won't prescribe an off-label medication in high doses, especially a muscle-relaxant, since baclofen for alcoholism is not FDA approved. Many physicians are willing to prescribe an off-label medication, but not in high doses. It is not dangerous to take baclofen in high doses, especially under medical supervision to help manage any side effects that may occur.

But since Olivier Ameisen's book, "The End of My Addiction" came out in 2004, he was really the first alcoholic to achieve success from baclofen. The first large-scale trial won't be until 2011. Hopefully when the trial results are favorable toward baclofen's quick effectiveness, more physicians will write prescriptions for their patients.

As it is, there are only a few known physicians in the U.S. who will do so. (That's why you identified five different threads here that only made reference to Dr. L.) Dr. L. is a gifted psychotherapist as well as a psychiatrist with a particular interest in neurology. He already has a busy practice and in no way needs more patients. His phone rings so often we refer to it as "the baclophone". Simply because so many people are suffering from alcoholism and haven't been able to find their solution in 12 Step groups, treatment centers or through cognitive behavioral techniques.

In addition to suffering from alcoholism I also have a disabling auto-immune disorder. My only income is a monthly SSDI check. Dr. L. was willing to work within my financial means as my prescribing psychiatrist. He billed me for our first consultation, but has not charged me for brief appointments where we talked about dosing and side effects. He calls in five refills for me at a time which makes continuous use very easy. I've been seen by all kinds of physicians over the years, and have never found a doctor as altruistic as Dr. L. Economic times are tough and many of us are particularly challenged financially due to the devastating affect of alcoholism on our personal and professional lives. But the state of the economy and our subsequent ability to pay doesn't often come into factor when it comes to paying for medical services.

I asked Dr. L. recently if I could refer a friend who is desperate to begin a baclofen protocol. I knew he had to be overwhelmed with his caseload. He was more than willing to work with my friend, despite the fact that he now works on weekends and keeps long hours. "I've witnessed what baclofen has done to alleviate the suffering of so many people and their families and I like being a part of something that exciting and incredible." Dr. Ameisen, Dr. L., and another Chicago psychiatrist who has prescribed for over a hundred patients have all been asked to speak at addiction conferences around-the-world. Their purpose is to educate and inform other medical professionals and those working in the addiction recovery field.

As to the 99% success rate? I can't verify that statistic and from reading the online accounts of others' experiences with baclofen, it would appear that some people don't stick with the protocol. Baclofen in high doses initially makes one very sleepy and somewhat forgetful. So it isn't easy to hold down a responsible job while ramping up on your dosage of baclofen. Then there are always those few heavy drinkers who miss feeling the effects of alcohol. If one was to measure the success of the baclofen protocol by factoring in both those who adhere to the protocol and those who abandon it, that statistic won't ring true. But what about the people who are committed to the protocol despite initial side effects? I bet that statistic is close to being accurate.

I hope I have helped dispel some of your doubts.

[Cassander]

Baclofen on the Radio

Dear Life

Of course you are largely preaching to the choir in this forum...but it is still so very important to say it over and over:

"Baclofen works."

Someday it will be an accepted treatment and Dr A, Dr L and the amazing people on this board will have the satisfaction of knowing they were right and that they participated in an amazing journey of discovery.

When I look at the horror of the world we have created...with unending wars on virtually every continent, with a global financial crisis still unfolding, with reckless abuse of the environment, with poverty and hunger wrecking havoc on, what, half the world's population...and then I look at the utter cowardice, stupidity and arrogance of the medical establishment, the greed of the pharmaceutical industry and the rehab community and the impotence of government health agencies in not addressing the tragedy of alcohol and substance abuse and addiction with scientific tools that can successfully resolve the brain chemistry issues present in addiction and CURE them...well, then I fear for the prospects for the human race.

Someday the story of baclofen and addiction treatment will be written and it will be an amazing story about the courage of a few in the face of the utterly amazing but all so human capacity of the many to self-deceive, persist in ignorance, often because of their own financial self-interest, and in fact do widespread and untold harm. It will be an amazing story.

Many of us on this board have been inclined to "SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS" when we see the amazing results of baclofen therapy. But we get exhausted when we do and it seems no one is listening. But it is important that we keep shouting because sooner or later the truth will out:

Baclofen works.

Like nothing else.

Cassander

EDIT: Comment: Did I say "amazing" enough times?

[ifulovelife2]

Baclofen on the Radio

Cassander;1202622 wrote:
Baclofen works.

Yeah baby! BACLOFEN WORKS!

[Life After Addiction]

Baclofen on the Radio

Cassander;1202622 wrote: Dear Life

Of course you are largely preaching to the choir in this forum...but it is still so very important to say it over and over:

"Baclofen works."

Someday it will be an accepted treatment and Dr A, Dr L and the amazing people on this board will have the satisfaction of knowing they were right and that they participated in an amazing journey of discovery.

When I look at the horror of the world we have created...with unending wars on virtually every continent, with a global financial crisis still unfolding, with reckless abuse of the environment, with poverty and hunger wrecking havoc on, what, half the world's population...and then I look at the utter cowardice, stupidity and arrogance of the medical establishment, the greed of the pharmaceutical industry and the rehab community and the impotence of government health agencies in not addressing the tragedy of alcohol and substance abuse and addiction with scientific tools that can successfully resolve the brain chemistry issues present in addiction and CURE them...well, then I fear for the prospects for the human race.

Someday the story of baclofen and addiction treatment will be written and it will be an amazing story about the courage of a few in the face of the utterly amazing but all so human capacity of the many to self-deceive, persist in ignorance, often because of their own financial self-interest, and in fact do widespread and untold harm. It will be an amazing story.

Many of us on this board have been inclined to "SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS" when we see the amazing results of baclofen therapy. But we get exhausted when we do and it seems no one is listening. But it is important that we keep shouting because sooner or later the truth will out:

Baclofen works.

Like nothing else.

Cassander

EDIT: Comment: Did I say "amazing" enough times?

Beautifully articulated post Cassandra! Agreed on all points. (Or shall I sing?) I told a family friend deep into her alcoholism about baclofen. Her husband and young children had just called in an interventionist to peddle a treatment center and AA for life. Yet she chose to keep drinking, saying she enjoys her life the way it is. Her husband served her with divorce papers the next day. I was mystified as to why anyone wouldn't be eager to try baclofen as opposed to losing their family?! But that was her decision.

Once I hit indifference and had stopped drinking for a number of months, I began to post on various addiction forums about the baclofen protocol. My posts always receive immediate replies - mainly negative. I've been accused of being a "Big Pharma shill," "delusional" and "full of woo". Even when I provide scientific studies as to the efficacy of high-dose baclofen and include positive salient points about the medication, there are always a flurry of disgruntled dubious remarks posted.

I remember reading Dr. Ameisen's moving and inspirational book and immediately setting about to find a physician willing to prescribe. I was diligent in this mission for well over a year until I came across Dr. L's contact information and promptly called him.

It baffles me why others still suffering would prefer to try to decrease their habit or abstain from drinking entirely by white-knuckling it.

I believe it's important to address the areas of our lives impacted by years of alcohol and substance abuse. Baclofen alone isn't enough for me to feel I've truly healed in a profound and lasting way. I don't knock other methods and picked up tools from trying them out.

But I was able to stop drinking entirely within months - after a decade of previous efforts - through taking baclofen until I hit the indifference point.

Some people never experience side effects other than somnolence from high dose baclofen. I wasn't one of them. I was willing to stick it out no matter what it took because I focused on the goal: freedom from addiction.

I admit it's been strange not to crave a fix or to wish to mood-alter through ingesting alcohol or narcotics. I have no idea what to do with the enormous emotional, psychological and mental space I'm left with now that my evil roommates moved out. Alcohol and Addiction (knew there would be an AA in the picture!) were served eviction papers by baclofen through Dr. A's breakthrough discovery and courage, and Dr. L's altruism and conviction. I will be forever grateful.

I'd like to recommend a passionate manifesto that rails against the mainstream addiction recovery model: Dealing With Addiction - Why The 20th Century Got It Wrong by Dr. Peter Ferentzy. I just read it and was encouraged to see a former addict take on the tired-old dinosaur. Hopefully we will live to see its extinction.

[Cassander]

Baclofen on the Radio

Dear Life

Great post. You might consider reposting your story on Ne's success thread.

We are very much on the same page...

Life After Addiction;1202974 wrote:

It baffles me why others still suffering would prefer to try to decrease their habit or abstain from drinking entirely by white-knuckling it.


Yes, I have a friend who is dependent and who has found sobriety through AA. He won't even read Dr A. He says he is afraid to try anything other than AA which is working for him. I wish he would try bac because even though he is sober, I don't think he is experiencing true indifference or the maximum relief of his anxiety (which he might achieve with baclofen).

Life After Addiction;1202974 wrote:

I believe it's important to address the areas of our lives impacted by years of alcohol and substance abuse. Baclofen alone isn't enough for me to feel I've truly healed in a profound and lasting way. I don't knock other methods and picked up tools from trying them out.


Yes, but please keep in mind that filling a life is everyone's great challenge, not just the recovered alcoholic's. I have been jealous over my life of friends and colleagues who rampage through life with enormous certainty that their goals, financial, career, whatever, are sufficient to fill the cup. I think there is more to it.

Basically, I think the missing ingredient is often "caring, compassion and community". I think its selfishness that leaves us empty and alcoholism is usually a pretty selfish thing...

Life After Addiction;1202974 wrote:

But I was able to stop drinking entirely within months - after a decade of previous efforts - through taking baclofen until I hit the indifference point.

Yes. Baclofen works.

Life After Addiction;1202974 wrote:

Alcohol and Addiction (knew there would be an AA in the picture!) were served eviction papers by baclofen through Dr. A's breakthrough discovery and courage, and Dr. L's altruism and conviction. I will be forever grateful.

Yes. If you stay around you will see people take pot shots at Dr A and Dr L. But you nailed it. Someday hopefully the debt of gratitude we owe them can in some way be repaid.

Life After Addiction;1202974 wrote:

I'd like to recommend a passionate manifesto that rails against the mainstream addiction recovery model: Dealing With Addiction - Why The 20th Century Got It Wrong by Dr. Peter Ferentzy. I just read it and was encouraged to see a former addict take on the tired-old dinosaur. Hopefully we will live to see its extinction.

I look forward to reading this book.

Best,

Cassander

[RudyB]

Baclofen on the Radio

life, thanks so much for that book recommendation. i shall order it now...

(cass, i still have only cracked 'spark' once, i've been so busy with 'bird by bird'. but i look forward to that, too!)

good conversation here!