If you believe the root cause of addiction is

[anne1232]

trauma, which I do...

Ayahuasca - National Geographic Adventure Magazine

I called this doctor (referenced in the piece) who's here in So. California...he said all troubled adolescents should have access to this medicine...but of course he can't get funding...

and if you haven't found Gabor Mate's work, you might look in to it. He's using ayahuasca now with his therapies in Vancouver, BC. His book 'Healing The Hungry Ghost' is ground zero re addiction issues

[Ne/Neva Eva]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

I really enjoyed the Natl Geo article. I had no "qualms" with her experience and don't doubt that that kind of experience can heal people in ways that we cannot account for with traditional (meaning tradition, modern, western :H) medicine.

That said, her final experience, when she reached out to her girl-self who felt abandoned and alone? That is a universal human experience. Every child feels that. Every parent I know carries a good deal of remorse for when they lost their kid at the grocery store, or in the park, or whatever, only to find him/her, a sodden, sobbing mess.

There is little acute trauma in my life. Nothing that I can't find a half dozen friends with similar experiences to report. Yet I'm a tried and true alcoholic and found relief from my first experiences with alcohol.

What they have, and I don't apparently, is the ability to cope. I keep coming back to fear as an experience that I have that is unique to my experience (compared to my non-AL friends.) Irrational fear, fight-or-flight-response fear. It's that that I'm trying to dispose of.

I also found it very important that she did it more than once. Nothing, it seems, is a one-stop cure-all.

I have had some profound spiritual experiences when drunk, taking mushrooms and on bac. I don't doubt the veracity of them, but I also know it has as much to do with my interpretation of them as it does with the experience itself. You know? And I wonder if we can't find those experiences, the profound and positive ones, in our daily lives, without traveling to jungles. I feel that in the most fundamental concepts in AA they are trying to simulate that experience and offer people the chance at a "profound spiritual experience." That in my opinion, is what Jung was getting after.

Which is not to say that I wouldn't love to do it. And frankly it's a lot less expensive than years and years of mediocre bull-shit therapy! Still, I don't think I would anymore, having found relief from the greatest obstacle there was, it's time to get on with it and heal. You know?

Love your thoughts, Anne. Glad you posted this.

[anne1232]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

Interesting

You are lucky to have put the demon behind you. I'll look at your threads to see if you're still taking bac. It's funny- how we all have different abilities (or disabilities) for coping. I have extreme PTSD which causes me to over-react (on the inside) to issues daily. Now if you wanna get REALLY trippy I've heard people say one can carry trauma over from past lives...

[Ne/Neva Eva]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

I'm still taking bac.
I didn't say I have put the demon behind me. No way. Still working on that one on a couple of different levels, you know?
Because I can relate to:

anne1232;1145019 wrote: over-react (on the inside) to issues daily.

The thing is, Anne, I didn't know that is what was happening. AT all. I refer to it as anxiety, but that doesn't feel totally accurate. It amazes me that I didn't know that I was always on high alert and ready to react. Which means that a little house spider was as threatening as something truly menacing would be.

Bac has given me profound relief from that. I finally feel as though my fight or flight is working, if that makes sense. I don't know why others don't have that experience, too.

It still happens. One of my current irrational (rational?) fears is that I'll stop seeing it when it does and start to think it's normal again. A 24/7 adrenaline high is not conducive to staying focused! I like being focused.

Anyway, it's a little awkward for me to post about this, and I post about EVERYTHING! :H

Glad you brought it up, though, and hope we can continue. I hope that bac is offering you some measure of relief from the symptoms of the PTSD and that you've been able to explore the other options for cessation.
:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

Oh, and while I don't discount that anything is possible (and loved the shaman's take on the other dimensions) I have enough to deal with thinking about this one, for the moment, you know?

[turboscottomatic]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

Ne/Neva Eva;1145053 wrote: I'm still taking bac.
I didn't say I have put the demon behind me. No way. Still working on that one on a couple of different levels, you know?
Because I can relate to:


The thing is, Anne, I didn't know that is what was happening. AT all. I refer to it as anxiety, but that doesn't feel totally accurate. It amazes me that I didn't know that I was always on high alert and ready to react. Which means that a little house spider was as threatening as something truly menacing would be.

Bac has given me profound relief from that. I finally feel as though my fight or flight is working, if that makes sense. I don't know why others don't have that experience, too.

It still happens. One of my current irrational (rational?) fears is that I'll stop seeing it when it does and start to think it's normal again. A 24/7 adrenaline high is not conducive to staying focused! I like being focused.

Anyway, it's a little awkward for me to post about this, and I post about EVERYTHING! :H

Glad you brought it up, though, and hope we can continue. I hope that bac is offering you some measure of relief from the symptoms of the PTSD and that you've been able to explore the other options for cessation.
:l

Damn, girl, yer all, deep 'n stuff....

Interesting. To me, you (Ne) and you (Anne) are both describing the same thing but using different labels. I was told by my (former) analyst that I had PTSD. That it was a sort of permanent scarring from a childhood where my needs were consistently not being met, which caused me to settle into a permanent relationship of 'non-trust' with all people and things and the world. The fundamental inability to trust anyone or anything. Thus, the trauma was not an event (like assault or rape), but was a period of time when things weren't right for me, for a long time.

One of the hallmarks of PTSD is hyper-vigilance, which I have and Anne probably has, and which you (Ne) describe perfectly:

"Irrational fear, fight-or-flight-response fear."

You can often recognized hyper-vigilance in others by observing an 'exaggerated startle response.' Like watching someone start to FLIP-OUT and go through mad contortions when a glass slips from their hand. A 'non-hyper-vigilant' person will have a modest response, while a hyper-vigilant person (perhaps a PTSD-er?) will try to catch the glass 5 times before it hits the floor. I do that.

I think of PTSD as anxiety/fear in which a specific root has been idenified. Probably half of us MWO kind of folks have PTSD, but we call it anxiety or fear because we haven't identified the 'T' in PTSD.....

T (no pun intended)

[Ne/Neva Eva]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

turboscottomatic;1145073 wrote: ...yer all deep and stuff...

I was told by my (former) analyst that I had PTSD. That it was a sort of permanent scarring from a childhood where my needs were consistently not being met, which caused me to settle into a permanent relationship of 'non-trust' with all people and things and the world. The fundamental inability to trust anyone or anything. Thus, the trauma was not an event (like assault or rape), but was a period of time when things weren't right for me, for a long time.


T (no pun intended)

Bac at you both, T and A. (I can't believe I wrote that either.)

Yeah, the PTSD thing keeps coming up. And I get it, I do. I also think it's a bit moot. Which is why the above paragraph irritates me, which is why, when I go to see my new (old) therapist next week it is likely to be awkward.

'cause I have a whole lot of, "Okay, so what the fuck are we going to do about it? It needs to go this time around!" going on. And a bit of, "Where were you the first 3000 times I tried to get sober and get past this?" You see the reason for the sigh.

Anyway. Better now than then. And looking forward to the rest. Against all odds, unbelievable as it is, I am not carrying the burden so heavily that I have to drink to ameliorate whatever problem that is. It is lessened that much. Everything else seems easily doable from this perspective. The chorus sings loudly day by day.

The 'T' is a bit, funny, T.
Ne

[Bruunhilde]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

Right on the money

turboscottomatic;1145073 wrote: Damn, girl, yer all, deep 'n stuff....

Interesting. To me, you (Ne) and you (Anne) are both describing the same thing but using different labels. I was told by my (former) analyst that I had PTSD. That it was a sort of permanent scarring from a childhood where my needs were consistently not being met, which caused me to settle into a permanent relationship of 'non-trust' with all people and things and the world. The fundamental inability to trust anyone or anything. Thus, the trauma was not an event (like assault or rape), but was a period of time when things weren't right for me, for a long time.

One of the hallmarks of PTSD is hyper-vigilance, which I have and Anne probably has, and which you (Ne) describe perfectly:

"Irrational fear, fight-or-flight-response fear."

I think of PTSD as anxiety/fear in which a specific root has been idenified. Probably half of us MWO kind of folks have PTSD, but we call it anxiety or fear because we haven't identified the 'T' in PTSD.....

Hi guy & girls, great thread. Scott, great point, Nev, great descriptions of exactly my situation. Anne, I do believe literally anything is possible, including past lives. In trying to make sense of the world and life, in attempts to scry a reason and purpose for life in general and for my life, I've used anything to help me see this reality I perceive differently.

[anne1232]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

Yup

I feel like the world is collapsing on me ALL OF THE TIME. Things just seem to go from bad to worse. AL is the only thing that makes me feel better. Oddly, I 'failed' at Bac because I felt way too high. And yes, I realize that this makes no sense at all...nothing's worse than AL.
The ibogaine was the only thing that helped me, as it goes "inside your head" and examines your mental, emotional, etc. state and you can figure out your motivations. But then I came home to the pressure cooker that is my life, and just collapsed again from the stress. For me, it is all about stressers. I couldn't cope. And then it becomes a cycle. As they say in AA "poor me, pour me a drink."

[RevoltingRich]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

fasinating stuff anne. I just read a whole load of the related subjects on the links to the national geographic mag (one of my favourite magazines) the whole thing really appeals to me, although i dont know how I could get the funds together to do it.
I have had some pretty mental experiences on DMT but they were mostly pretty hallucinations.
Would love to know how good this stuff really is in the long term, same as ibogaine etc

[anne1232]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

Also google Dr. Gabor Mate + ayahuasca. He's a very well regarded guy working with heroin addicts in Vancouver BC. Has written what I believe are the best books on addiction that exist.
He has just started using aya in treatments up there. He has also gone to Mexico and researched Ibo with the providers there. You CAN order ibo online quite cheaply and do it yourself. It is synthesized. Aya you have to go to the jungle...it's a combo of many plants and must be gathered and prepared very precisely. Peru's Blue Morpho is about $US2100, not to mention the travel cost. Re Ibo: if you really want to get into it check out eboka forum, or mindvox, or erowid.com. There are lower cost alternatives.

[Bruunhilde]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

Anne, have you considered doing the ibo yourself at home? Since you're experienced with it (somewhat) and you know people who practice, maybe they could advise from afar...

[RudyB]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

hi anne,
i did tha ayahuasca (santo daime?) ceremony here in ny about ten yrs ago. it was not life-changing, but i suspect my dose wasn't quite strong enough. i dunno. i definitely felt purged of something, though it was pretty subtle (not the ceremony, its effects; there's nothing subtle about puking for hours).

also, i've been reading about PTSD in 'healing without freud or prozac', and he writes about a therapy using eye movements that has been amazingly helpful for that condition. i'll get back to you on its name, but the gist is that the eye movements in this therapy, which resemble what our eyes do during rem sleep, help our limbic brains re-connect with our rational brains to sort out the mistaken associations of challenging moments with momentous traumas (or something along those lines). the book is an excellent read, and full of alternative routes to healing that you don't oft find on a shrink's couch.

[gratitude]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

EMDR is the eye movement therapy I believe you are referring to. hard to believe this works but it does. my shrink tried this on me and it was pretty powerful. don't think it was placebo because I had never heard of it. it was like a kind of hypnosis or altered state where I had insight into some early childhood stuff. I ended up having a full-on panic attack in her office and it didn't go away for three days.
I've been researching ibogaine lately. great stuff on utube.

[anne1232]

If you believe the root cause of addiction is

Yes, Brunny, I've def. considered doing it alone, or w/ friends here that have done it.
I did the EMDR treatment and it was not effective for me....but I read that it works for many. Usually, those w/ success had ONE very traumatic event; rape, violence, etc. It seems to work best with them.