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    #16
    Losing my religion

    i see some excellent and active threads that directly address some of the concerns raised. there's the newbies nest for bac, which actively engages newcomers who might not feel comfortable elsewhere, and who mightn't want to start their own thread. there's the se's thread. there's the consolidated bac thread. and there's always the personal thread option, where an individual can, if s/he wishes, state outright that s/he wishes it to be straight to the point, not blog-style or cluttered with extranea.

    i don't think there's a cliqueishness at all. i think there's some real comraderie that is embraced and is truly very supportive. this is a mult-faceted process, and for some of us it is very, very helpful to include all of them in our writing. (and i do see lots of tools being empolyed and discussed on some of the meds threads, which becomes part of the lengthy narrative, but not detrimentally so.) people who don't want to partake, don't have to. people who do jump in on a particular thread are always welcomed. i have never seen anyone shunted, except for being overly rude or downright mean.

    there are solutions, folks, i do believe and see. this is a good discussion, but it is important to take the time to read each others' thoughts carefully (i know, that takes extra time, but we can trust that most posters put thought and care into what they write, and we owe it to them to read what they write with same), such that we don't make erroneous accusations and turn a potentially constructive conversation into a debate.

    we're all smart people here, with different ways of using those smarts. i think that there is a place for each and every one of those ways of being smart, but if someone doesn't find exactly what s/he needs, there is plenty of room for creating it. real estate does not exist in cyberspace, last i checked.

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      #17
      Losing my religion

      beatle;1147409 wrote: I agree mostly with what Ne said, with some refinements.



      This is true, but it has a lot to do with the blog explosion. Sorry, but it's true. If the blogs had been kept to a couple, even a few people, and everyone was not encouraged to make their own blogs, but to continue to exchange information, discuss certain themes thrown out there, questions people had, give advice, get advice, all useful and focussed, then the bac threads would not have got so out of control.

      As it is now, newbies will be overwhelmed (and they are), feel left out because they are not one of the "in" group, don't know the histories of each individual, haven't participated in the ongoing sagas of each person, have a hard time finding concrete information and can't find or search for information based on themes.

      It used to be easy to get info on, say, SEs, by finding the SEs thread. Now you have to wade through each and every individual's blogs to find out about SEs ... because they report them in their personal blogs. This buries the information and makes it all but impossible to access without inordinate (I mean INORDINATE) amounts of time, patience and ability to concentrate whilst reading all the individual blogs. If all of us posted our SEs on the SEs thread, for example, and continued to do so, instead of leaving them in our personal blogs, that thread would stay at the top and remain current. Now it is old and perhaps not even relevant for many.




      True -- although I can't see why posting instead of taking things into PMs should take any more time. That way the information is shared with all. The only reason for PMs should be to share private messages -- private -- because you don't feel comfortable discussing such private discussions publicly.

      Using PMs as a way to reach out is not, imo, a replacement for sharing information and giving support on the boards. And as I said, I really don't see how it saves time, either.
      Respond with a post instead of a PM, and you will keep the thread at the top. And share valuable information. Tell the person who is communicating with you to write the same things in a post. Why are you the one that has to support them privately all the time?

      I reserve PMs and emails to people I feel I have a personal connection with. People I would want to be friends with in real life. I know I am very guilty of telling people privately (off the boards) things that I should post. The questions and advice I get/give, would be relevant to many. But I also do this with just the people I trust, and with personal information I am not comfortable with sharing with the general public. In this regard, PMs and personal contacts have been a lifesaver to me. But the few people with whom i have personal relationships, I reached out to. Or responded to PMs in a postitive and personal way. I recognized them as like-minded people who could perhaps offer more than what was on the boards atm. And people for whom I had a personal question, perhaps not relevant to the current flow of the thread



      If they responded to themes and questions, they might be more recognized. And if people just looked at newbies nest a little more. This is a great idea that should have solved a lot of problems, but it gets lost in all the other stuff.



      Yep, too many personalities, too much to read, too much of a "clique" feeling going on. The bac threads have become too much to participate on. I still think the individual threads are terribly relevant and worthwhile, but wading through them and THEN participating seems like a lot to expect from a newcomer. Or an oldcomer.

      I suggested a long time ago, and several times since, to make a separate section for blogs. Not sure how this would have been accomplished, but many people negated this idea, saying things had become more "social" now, telling me to get my head out of the ground, let the threads and direction of the forum grow by themselves.

      So, this is where we are now.



      yep, yep, yep and yep (did I leave a yep out there?)

      So, all you diehards out there, post your relevant info on the relevant themes. Don'y let those threads die out.

      Too tired to go on now.

      Please don't tell me to get my head out of the sand., go with the flow, enjoy that ride... I feel passionately about this, always have and always will.
      Spot-on, Beatle

      :goodjob:
      I'll do whatever it takes
      AF 21/08/2009

      Comment


        #18
        Losing my religion

        I figured it out this morning. It is starting to feel like high school around here. Exactly like high school.

        I looked long and hard at this, friends. Looked at myself, looked at circumstances, and found that MWO was making me profoundly uncomfortable. Seemed a lot like the dining hall.

        The gossip, the intrigue, the clamoring for attention. Even the jokes are often tired and sophomoric. Add to that that no one is calling attention to bull shit when they see it. How is it productive or helpful to rah-rah when someone is in pain and needs a …little insight?

        Meanwhile, all the new kids, the ones who don't know anybody or who are a little bit different are left out of the conversation. If they're a little shy, or like something that one of the cool people dismisses out of hand, then they think what they have to offer isn't valid.

        I have never played that game, not once, and I'm not doing it now. This is life and death, not popularity and posturing. This is about information and support. It's about an accumulation of knowledge.

        Plus I HATED high school. The place that I hated the most was the fucking dining hall. If there is trauma in my life, you can find it starting right there in 9th grade with Paul D**tler.

        (Do you remember the story, Ig? Probably not. :H But ignominous is the only other human being who knows that story. It's something I couldn't and wouldn't share on the boards because this is not therapy. THAT is what off line communication meant for me.)

        I continue to communicate via pm to welcome newbies and share information and support with people who are not comfortable posting. It takes less time, beatle, if you are only doing it a little bit. I encourage EVERY one I communicate with to bring it to the boards, every single one of you can attest to that.

        I would gladly relinquish that, and this thread is, in part, a desire to do just that. If someone else, ANYONE, would pass on Dr. L’s number, for instance, I would be very relieved. I don’t want to post it again for all and sundry simply because we have already had Jekyll/Hyde threaten the link. It’s a precious link and he should be protected to the best of our ability. But I digress.

        The rest? My near and dear? Ha. I hope everyone can find the same, here or anywhere. I won’t apologize for making friends, and keeping them.

        This is between me and my people.
        Friends, hate me. Dismiss me. Resent me. Think I'm crazy. Ignoring me doesn't usually work. Sorry to air dirty laundry for all and sundry, but they tell me that secrets are bad. I can't give up my lifeline.
        Peace

        Comment


          #19
          Losing my religion

          This has got to be the most insightful, timely, relevant post I've read on Meds in a long, long time.

          I hope it's a game-changer.

          Comment


            #20
            Losing my religion

            And yes to everything beatle wrote, and Tip seconded.
            Sorry if I contributed to the frufra. That's over, fwiw.

            There IS a place. It's called the blog section. I may use it myself, it's hard not to post when something happens! Or just to write! It's awfully empty and in need of attention. Lots of lovely space calling for life stories and everyday thoughts. And who else, but the ones who can't be confined, to break it in?

            Comment


              #21
              Losing my religion

              If anyone has any doubt about the importance of the blog type threads, I suggest they pop over to my blog, errr thread, errr interactive blog and read the posts from the last day. People have found it essential reading. ESSENTIAL reading. It has helped them through the whole process and without it they would have most likely quit and gone back to the booze. These are their words not mine. And these type comments come up there quite regularly and not just from people on baclofen or any med in fact.

              Some people don?t just want to be pointed at some cold, bland information ?Do this, don?t do that and eventually you?ll feel these things?. They NEED to be able to walk the path with someone else. It?s really fucking scary trying to navigate this on your own and if you can watch someone else do it, it helps. It can make the difference between success and failure, and I?m sorry if this sounds melo-fucking-dramatic but lives can depend on it.

              So you agree my blog/thread is useful, yes? So my blog/thread should be allowed but not some of the others? A couple, a few blogs should be allowed? Bollocks! Who gives us the right to decide whose should be allowed or not? Some people need my thread and to others it?s annoying, offensive drivel and they would never read it, but they read others.

              I encourage new members to start their own threads; I find it much easier to keep track of them: where they are in their treatment, what problems they?ve had, what?s helped and what hasn?t and then I can decide whether it would be a good idea to offer a new suggestion or just support them while they work through it. I can?t do that if I don?t remember their history.

              And for the record, just posting ?I agree
              ? and not standing up and speaking for yourself but rather hiding behind someone else?s words is just cowardly and fucking pathetic.

              Sorry for all the cuss words, actually no I?m not?bollocks!

              The unexamined life is not worth living

              Comment


                #22
                Losing my religion

                Why does it have to be an either/or? And why can't there be some standards? Don't we all want to participate and support people? If not, what are you doing here? And what am I doing here?

                and why, oh why, are you lashing out at people? Sometimes "I agree" means simply that.

                Plus, don't tell me you haven't noticed it too. And if you haven't, hmmm

                Comment


                  #23
                  Losing my religion

                  I'm wondering if I changed "Naltrexone Works", to just "Naltrexone Thread" it might encourage others to post in it?I'd prefer that than just dragging it along as it is.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Losing my religion

                    This is all interesting stuff. I can say for myself that I was led to these forums by Google. Having some extra time on my hands, I was able (and excited) to wade through all the personal threads. This is the best place I've found for info on bac, and for that I'm eternally grateful to all of you. There's definetly some cliqueishness, but I don't think it's taking away from anything. If anything, it's just adding to the experience to those who are willing to respond to different threads.

                    As a new guy, I'd like to say that this place is awesome, but then again, I'm a new guy, so what do I know?
                    Knowledge of what is possible is the beginning of happiness.
                    George Santayana

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Losing my religion

                      sometimes the new people have the most to offer, and keep the conversations going in new and important directions. i may be thick -we KNOW i am sometimes- but i don't feel the cliqueishness. maybe cause i'm not new anymore?

                      uk, i think your thread title is just great! if it's true, why not?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Losing my religion

                        RudyB;1147637 wrote: we KNOW i am
                        WTF?? Did you grow a pinky?

                        Oh and...I agree...with everything.
                        :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
                        :what?:
                        sigpic
                        Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

                        Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




                        Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
                        A Forum
                        Trolls need not apply

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                          #27
                          Losing my religion

                          I agree with the people who "get" it. I guess that makes me cowardly and fucking pathetic, eh?

                          Thanks for this thread Ne.
                          Nov 1 2006 avg 100 - 120 drinks/week
                          April 29 2011 TSM avg 70 - 80/wk
                          wks* 1- 6: 256/1AF (avg 42.6/wk)
                          wks* 7-12: 229/3AF (avg 38.1/wk)
                          wks 13-18: 192/5AF (avg 32.0/wk)
                          wks 19-24: 176/1AF (avg 29.3/wk)
                          wks 25-30: 154/10AF (avg 25.6/wk)
                          wks 31-36: 30/37AF (avg 5/wk )

                          I may not be there yet, but I'm closer than I was yesterday.
                          http://www.thesinclairmethod.net/community/

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                            #28
                            Losing my religion

                            I agee with Pete et al.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Losing my religion

                              I was just reading over what I wrote again and...I concur.
                              :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
                              :what?:
                              sigpic
                              Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

                              Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




                              Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
                              A Forum
                              Trolls need not apply

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Losing my religion

                                Loop I've read your comments in this thread 6 times, and I've agreed with them 5 times.
                                Knowledge of what is possible is the beginning of happiness.
                                George Santayana

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