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    #1

    Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

    I've seen it several times here stated that baclofen should be taken in as small a dose as possible, and spread throughout the day (and night) as much as is possible so as to mimic the way that the brain would secrete it (because "it" or something is missing in our brains). I'm paraphrasing so as not to quote anyone in particular.

    I have a couple of issues with that statement:

    #1: Baclofen is an exogenous substance. The brain does not produce or secrete it. What then are we referring to? GHB (that's my only guess). The brain does produce and secrete that. AFAIK, that's the only endogenous GABA B agonist we have, although I've never taken the time to even try to look it up.

    Are we basing this on Ameisen's paper? One paper proposed by one guy that hasn't even been discussed about by anyone else? Does that even qualify as a hypothesis?

    #2: I can think of quite a few neurotransmitters and hormones just off the top of my head...lemme see:

    dopamine
    seratonin
    epinephrine
    norepinephrine
    oxytocin
    insulin
    human growth hormone
    grhelin
    leptin
    neuropeptide Y
    GHB
    GABA
    endorphins
    enkaphalins
    H1
    prolactin
    acetylcholine
    vasopressin
    ...
    ...

    Of this list, not a single freaking one of them is "secreted in a slow and steady stream, constantly throughout the day and night." Not one...EVER. They are all secreted, in varying amounts, in response to hundreds of different stimuli (actions we take, things we perceive, things we eat, when we don't eat, sexual arousal, normal basal secretions (which rise and fall during the day and night depending on the substance), and on...and on. So why then, are we saying this?
    :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
    :what?:
    sigpic
    Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

    Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




    Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
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    #2
    Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

    Good point Loop.

    I think I was one of the last people to say 'mimic' and you're right, it probably is rubbish. The main point is that it does seem to reduce the SEs for some people if that's what they need.

    Thanks for keeping it real.
    Started Baclofen 3/9/10 Hit my switch at 250mg on 21/11/10 Present maintenance dose of 50mg : started drinking after 1 year, upped dose to 80mg and stopped: Tapered to 30mg, started 6 months of drinking, upped dose to 240mg to stop 12/7/12

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      #3
      Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

      The trouble comes when people start reading, or writing as if it is Gospel. The post you refer to Loop unfortunately does sound this way. You are completely correct and I'm not sure if anything is secreted in a constant stream in our bodies! For some breaking down the dose does appear to help with SEs. I found it simply spread out my suffering constantly instead, whereas larger doses kind of "got it over with" and gave me some spells during the day that weren't quite so bad.

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        #4
        Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

        I've said it quite a bit.

        To me it just makes sense, and that's the easiest way of putting it across that I could think of. Because it's an exogenous substance and we have the ability to control its delivery, this to me is the most sensible way of doing it. It may not be correct scientifically, but it gets the point across.

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          #5
          Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

          Thanks Lo0p. Very good point.
          Perhaps taking it in small doses simply means that we aren't stimulating those (it must be more than one; many, many things going on) to excess. In my own experience, before I started taking it in smallish doses throughout the day, I almost always felt a surge when the bac kicked in, and then a 'coming down' period following that. Once I started taking it in smaller doses I didn't have that experience, my reactions were more subtle. I found a cessation of the most disconcerting SEs, including clumsiness and absent-mindedness.
          I fundamentally disagree (and he knows this) with Otter's suggestion that it should be taken throughout the night. The brain needs a period of rest. Things slow down in the body as well. That's why we don't need to take antibiotics, and almost all other medications, perfectly evenly spaced throughout the night.
          Add to that that the most debilitating SEs are often coupled with insomnia and other sleep disruptions, and we almost all experience sleep disruptions, and you've got disaster waiting to happen. (imho)

          Guard your sleep!

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            #6
            Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

            Ukblonde;1151609 wrote: The post you refer to Loop unfortunately does sound this way.
            I really am not referring to a specific post. It's been a theme here for a long time.

            While it may serve to illustrate well how some people respond to baclofen, it's just a story.
            :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
            :what?:
            sigpic
            Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

            Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




            Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
            A Forum
            Trolls need not apply

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              #7
              Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

              Lo0p;1151578 wrote:

              #1: Baclofen is an exogenous substance. The brain does not produce or secrete it. What then are we referring to? GHB (that's my only guess). The brain does produce and secrete that. AFAIK, that's the only endogenous GABA B agonist we have, although I've never taken the time to even try to look it up.

              Are we basing this on Ameisen's paper? One paper proposed by one guy that hasn't even been discussed about by anyone else? Does that even qualify as a hypothesis?
              (We) are not talking about GHB, we are talking about GABA which baclofen is a chemical analogue of, whose chemical features (a chloro-phenyl ring) make it able to penetrate the blood brain barrier (possibly making it a Superagonist?)

              I don't buy into Ameisen's theory that Baclofen "makes up" for a deficiency of endogenous GHB in alcoholics, and I don't believe that anxiety is the root of alcohol addiction, as it certainly is not in my case.

              I had a big, long winded response that I just retracted.....

              Taking small doses throughout the day is inconvenient, but larger doses absolutely cause flushes of side effects in many folks, myself included. I am really hoping for a future when Arbaclofen placarbil is available. As it is, I experience a bit of rebound back spasticity when I wake up every morning (I take 4 doses, 60mg @8a/1p/7p/12a and I'm starting to feel the 8 hour overnight stretch (I'm sleeping a great/easy 7+ hours, better than ever).

              -tk
              TerryK celebrates 6 years of sobriety and indifference to alcohol thanks to baclofen

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                #8
                Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

                terryk;1151796 wrote: I don't buy into Ameisen's theory that Baclofen "makes up" for a deficiency of endogenous GHB in alcoholics, and I don't believe that anxiety is the root of alcohol addiction, as it certainly is not in my case.

                I had a big, long winded response that I just retracted.....
                Would've loved to read it (as always), but yeah, no need. I don't think many people agree with his theory.

                terryk;1151796 wrote:                 Taking small doses throughout the day is inconvenient, but larger doses absolutely cause flushes of side effects in many folks, myself included. I am really hoping for a future when Arbaclofen placarbil is available. As it is, I experience a bit of rebound back spasticity when I wake up every morning (I take 4 doses, 60mg @8a/1p/7p/12a and I'm starting to feel the 8 hour overnight stretch (I'm sleeping a great/easy 7+ hours, better than ever).
                Did you have back spasticity prior to taking baclofen? I generally go 18 hours between dosing in the evening and in the morning. Sometimes 24. I've never noticed any muscular effects or SE's of treatment (relaxation or spasticity).
                :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
                :what?:
                sigpic
                Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

                Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




                Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
                A Forum
                Trolls need not apply

                Comment

                  #9
                  Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

                  Lo0p, what is AFAIK?

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                    #10
                    Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

                    As Far As I Know.

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                      #11
                      Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

                      Bruun,

                      AFAIK = As far as I know.


                      LL:l


                      Edit: Sorry crossed you Bleep :-) Just trying to catch up on reading threads today.
                      The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings.

                      *Don't look where you fall, look why you slipped*

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                        #12
                        Neurotransmitters secreted by the brain

                        Thanks bleep & LL, I'm not a texter (much) so I'm totally out of it.

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