Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

[Sprat]

I'll try to keep this succinct, but that is hard for me, please bear with me. :upset:

My bac is from from 4rx, the 25mg Fexobac. And i get 40mgs a day from a doctor.

I started bac in mid April and didn't see much results for May. By June 1st i was at 200mgs and started to mix in some AF days, feeling good. All of this was the Fexobac, i was stockpiling the Lioresal (sp?).

By mid June i was at 275 and was sober for 6 out of 10 days or something and i started posted asking about 'the switch'. It was close.

At the end of June I went to 25 of Fexobac and 10 of Lioresal = 35 mgs every 1.5 hours for 280 a day. And I went 10 days AF! My longest stretch in 25 years. A miracle. And i had plenty of 'reasons' to pound a few during that time, but didn't even cross my mind. I was preparing my coming out post in my head.

At the time i felt almost no SEs, but I was depressed and anxious. Things small and large upset me. I don't like being a drunk but at least when I drank failures dulled and the future was no threat and now it was the opposite. And I started breaking off contact with friends, family, everyone. (and my thread got abandoned) And despite being AF nothing was getting done, books went unopened, projects did not get started. I was happiest smoking on the deck, and I hardly ever smoked before, great, a new addiction!

So I was searching for titrating down and maintenance doses. I was running out of my 10s anyway. So i started taking 50 mgs every 3 hours or so to 250 and then a few 10s at night to go to 270, and then 260.

After a few days I had a summer festival and i was the only adult drinking apple juice. Someone bought me a beer and it tasted good, so i bought the 2nd round and that was good. I had 4 beers. Next day AF, then 6 beers, then AF, AF, then some beer... And on July 8th I had a taste for whiskey. For the first time in 16 days I bought some whiskey.

And that has been the story of July. I went back to 280 but I am drinking every damn day. Sometimes 4, sometimes 9, whiskey and beer. What the fuck happened? How could 280 work for June and be worthless in July? (I'll give that a guess in the following post)

Is the simple answer, go up more?

And i think that has to be the answer, i've thought of posting this many times this month, but when i thought about that response I didn't post. I mean, if i know the answer then i should just do it myself. But i need to get this out there. Please help.

Thanks. Oh, and i need to change my mood, that was during my AF stretch. I am not confident now. I'd like to end with :upset:

[Sprat]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Here is my theory about why 280 was good for June buy not July.

I don't think paranoia is an SE, but i can't get this out of my head. At the end of May I ordered some meds from India, they billed me but didn't ship it. After a week I asked them about the delay and they said, sorry we are out of stock. Well, i got upset with them (as i often do in my HDB state) and actually had a little chat fight. So stupid.

Well, at the end of the chat they 'found' some meds and shipped them. I thought complaining actually got something done! Now i wonder if they just diluted my bac or filled it with aspirin or something.

Is it so easy to make bac? I have no idea. These are the meds i have been taking this month, when my bac is not helping me.

Am I :nutso: ?

[Greg]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Most others here have way more experience with baclofen than I do, so I'll just add a couple of ideas and let a more experienced member give you a more complete answer. Here are two thoughts:

1) The batch of baclofen you have been taking while not doing so well with alcohol could be poor quality, as you have guessed. This is not impossible; I have heard of poor or even counterfeit drugs when buying online, although I think others here would be talking more about this if it were a common issue.

2) You could need to address other issues in your life, which baclofen by itself won't fully deal with. I remember reading a few stories a long time ago by enthusiastic baclofen users, saying that baclofen can solve almost all problems once the switch dose is reached, but personally I do not believe that. I do think it can be a valuable tool for lessening the grip of alcohol dependence, and many find it helpful for anxiety, but I don't see how it can solve someone's psychological problems when those issues are not being caused by their alcohol problem. Underlying problems, which many people drink to escape from, can easily still exist once the alcohol is reduced or removed totally. This is one of the few things I agree with AA on, although I don't necessarily recommend AA as a way of dealing with it. Some form of extra treatment would likely help with this however.

Anyway, as I say, others here have more baclofen experience than myself. Good luck, I hope you get some good advice from others here.

[bleep]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Greg's answer hit it, imo.

It may well be a faulty batch, but it's also a mindset. It's quite easy to drink when you're indifferent, if you choose to, but it's also quite easy not to. Like you though, I don't expect willpower to come in to the equation, which leaves you in a tricky spot. If you can get another AF spree started, you'll probably find it a simple matter to continue. Maybe give that a try?

Mind you, I suppose that's what you're bloody trying to do! I'm finding that life after indifference is filled with experiments of this nature, as I try and find the balance. You'll work it out Sprat.

[Murphyx]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Sprat, I buy the Fexobac from 4RX and never had a problem with it. They make a huge amount of money from selling this stuff and aren't going to risk all that by sending out fake bac when it only costs a halfpenny to produce.

It's like Greg said, Bac isn't a cure-all, you still need to work on the other issues that surfaced when you were sober; the reasons why you started drinking as a way of medicating perhaps.

[Guest]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Sprat;1155742 wrote: I'll try to keep this succinct, but that is hard for me, please bear with me. :upset:

My bac is from from 4rx, the 25mg Fexobac. And i get 40mgs a day from a doctor.

I started bac in mid April and didn't see much results for May. By June 1st i was at 200mgs and started to mix in some AF days, feeling good. All of this was the Fexobac, i was stockpiling the Lioresal (sp?).

By mid June i was at 275 and was sober for 6 out of 10 days or something and i started posted asking about 'the switch'. It was close.

At the end of June I went to 25 of Fexobac and 10 of Lioresal = 35 mgs every 1.5 hours for 280 a day. And I went 10 days AF! My longest stretch in 25 years. A miracle. And i had plenty of 'reasons' to pound a few during that time, but didn't even cross my mind. I was preparing my coming out post in my head.

At the time i felt almost no SEs, but I was depressed and anxious. Things small and large upset me. I don't like being a drunk but at least when I drank failures dulled and the future was no threat and now it was the opposite. And I started breaking off contact with friends, family, everyone. (and my thread got abandoned) And despite being AF nothing was getting done, books went unopened, projects did not get started. I was happiest smoking on the deck, and I hardly ever smoked before, great, a new addiction!

So I was searching for titrating down and maintenance doses. I was running out of my 10s anyway. So i started taking 50 mgs every 3 hours or so to 250 and then a few 10s at night to go to 270, and then 260.

After a few days I had a summer festival and i was the only adult drinking apple juice. Someone bought me a beer and it tasted good, so i bought the 2nd round and that was good. I had 4 beers. Next day AF, then 6 beers, then AF, AF, then some beer... And on July 8th I had a taste for whiskey. For the first time in 16 days I bought some whiskey.

And that has been the story of July. I went back to 280 but I am drinking every damn day. Sometimes 4, sometimes 9, whiskey and beer. What the fuck happened? How could 280 work for June and be worthless in July? (I'll give that a guess in the following post)

Is the simple answer, go up more?

And i think that has to be the answer, i've thought of posting this many times this month, but when i thought about that response I didn't post. I mean, if i know the answer then i should just do it myself. But i need to get this out there. Please help.

Thanks. Oh, and i need to change my mood, that was during my AF stretch. I am not confident now. I'd like to end with :upset:

I'd just like to add that during my baclofen trial I went through a period of perhaps 3 weeks where I was 100% AF (as well as several other 1 week, 5 days etc stretches). During that time I though Baclofen had worked, or I'd 'switched'. I did start drinking again on the same dose (even though it wasn't every single day but still in my old pattern) and when I looked back I think I wasn't drinking for 'other' reasons, including in my case that I felt so ill on Baclofen that I didn't want to drink!

I am therefore wondering if it was some sort of AF 'phase' for you.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Hiya, Sprat.
That sucks. I'm sorry.
I am surprised by the fact that I think I disagree with some of the above. I have found that different levels affect me differently at different times. Meaning that when going up and down, I can't really predict what will happen. I just dropped from 200mg to 180mg. 180mg was terrible, despite the fact that it was no big deal the last couple of times I was there. I was extremely somnolent, and probably depressed. Since then I've dropped to 140mg. It's only been a couple of days, but I feel HUGELY better and still not craving. The last time I was at 140mg I drank.
All that is to say, you could go down a little and see if that helps, or go up a little and see if that helps.

I also agree with you that the circumstances in which they found enough baclofen to ship you are fishy enough that I would be VERY skeptical about the quality. How soon can you get a replacement, even from the same company??? There was a circumstance last fall that bac made in Pennsylvania was tainted, as well as several other medications... If it can happen here ('cause we all know how perfect we are here, right?? :H) well, ...

Take good care, and please keep posting this time around.
Ne

[Sprat]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Thanks everyone. I really love MWO. I ask for help and get so many replies. :l Without the support I'd be toasted now.

Instead, I was thinking about this thread biking back from the beach today, and the thought that I may need to meet the bac somewhere in the middle, caused me to pop open a soda water w/ a lime wedge when i got home, instead of the 3 cold beers in the fridge. So today I get my first AF day in a few weeks. Damn it feels good.

I agree, I have lots to work on, and that's why I'm here, to get sober and fix it. I can not get out of this foreign land by getting drunk every night, even if takes me away for a while every evening.

It is just confusing. Look at Ne's post! 20 to 40 mg changes make huge differences, for better or worse! I was AF at 280 then down to 260 and I'm swallowing my bac with a whiskey shot in a public bathroom. I thought if I was around 280 everyday that was enough. How can the dose level be so sensitive when you are up so high?!

Glad you keep posting Ne, sorry my threads are never light hearted.

UKB if this doesn't work out I'll try TSM, promise.

Ok, 11pm, off to bed, got a big fireworks show tomorrow for Aug. 1st!

[RudyB]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

hey there sprat! sorry to read about your challenges. like ne, i was doing great at 200, went down to 180, felt depressed and drank (though that may have been pms). now i'm back up to 200 and havin se's again (and also drank again yesterday, ergh!). it's tricky stuff, and it is hard to imagine that 20 or 40 mgs at such a high dose would make a difference, but, lookie there, evidently it does.

good for you on your af day! and may you enjoy those fireworks in a sober state of mind!

xoxo rudy b

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Sprat;1156097 wrote: Thanks everyone. I really love MWO. I ask for help and get so many replies. :l Without the support I'd be toasted now.
...
So today I get my first AF day in a few weeks. Damn it feels good.

It is just confusing. Look at Ne's post! 20 to 40 mg changes make huge differences, for better or worse! I was AF at 280 then down to 260 and I'm swallowing my bac with a whiskey shot in a public bathroom. I thought if I was around 280 everyday that was enough. How can the dose level be so sensitive when you are up so high?!

Glad you keep posting Ne, sorry my threads are never light hearted.

Ok, 11pm, off to bed, got a big fireworks show tomorrow for Aug. 1st!

Hiya, Sprat. You might be the only one up around here about now. Or at least the only one up that isn't dealing with bac-insomnia. (actually, it's morning across the pond. But whatever.)
I'm not, btw, bac-sleepless. I'm just sleepless.
I love the support on MWO too. It's a lifeline.

I'm glad you had an AF day. Those help.

It drives me crazy when people only post the sunshine-y happy stuff. 'cause the next thing you know... They're on here saying they quit and then I worry. A lot. Especially now. I figure by the time one gets to the point where one is ordering medication, unprescribed, using it off-label, well. If one was like me, one had better find some help. Ya' know?

Not to mention that the whole point, the reason for existence, is the support. Good times and bad.

Apple juice! I haven't had apple juice in ages, and that sounds like a good thing to add to the repertoire.
How are you?
:l

[Guest]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Sprat;1156097 wrote: Thanks everyone. I really love MWO. I ask for help and get so many replies. :l Without the support I'd be toasted now.

Instead, I was thinking about this thread biking back from the beach today, and the thought that I may need to meet the bac somewhere in the middle, caused me to pop open a soda water w/ a lime wedge when i got home, instead of the 3 cold beers in the fridge. So today I get my first AF day in a few weeks. Damn it feels good.

I agree, I have lots to work on, and that's why I'm here, to get sober and fix it. I can not get out of this foreign land by getting drunk every night, even if takes me away for a while every evening.

It is just confusing. Look at Ne's post! 20 to 40 mg changes make huge differences, for better or worse! I was AF at 280 then down to 260 and I'm swallowing my bac with a whiskey shot in a public bathroom. I thought if I was around 280 everyday that was enough. How can the dose level be so sensitive when you are up so high?!

Glad you keep posting Ne, sorry my threads are never light hearted.

UKB if this doesn't work out I'll try TSM, promise.

Ok, 11pm, off to bed, got a big fireworks show tomorrow for Aug. 1st!

Sprat

My post wasn't about you trying nal, or even recommending it to you. It was merely explaining you might have had a blip due to other reasons, not necessarily some sort of baclofen switch.

[Sprat]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Ukblonde;1156419 wrote: My post wasn't about you trying nal, or even recommending it to you. It was merely explaining you might have had a blip due to other reasons, not necessarily some sort of baclofen switch.

Oh, sorry i misread it. I thought you tried bac, thought you had found success but really didn't, as it seemed with me. And then you found success w/ Nal.

That could not have been a blip, it was 2X longer AF then i'd ever achieved in 25 years. I just don't know where it went.

[Sprat]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

RudyB;1156255 wrote: it's tricky stuff, and it is hard to imagine that 20 or 40 mgs at such a high dose would make a difference, but, lookie there, evidently it does.

and may you enjoy those fireworks in a sober state of mind!

Yes, to the first and no to the second. Hi Rudy, thanks for posting again. I read your thread sometimes and have to jump in there. Here it takes me forever to get back to my own and it loses momentum. Se la vie.

Anyway, i am very frustrated with the fluctuations. I did enjoy the fireworks from a rooftop party, eating lots of 焼肉　(ie, yakiniku, ie bbq) and drinking lots of beer. The show lasted 1.5 hours and on a hot night on the roof, with coolers full of cold beverages... they went down quick. And the railings were old and rusty which was dangerous!

I should have brought my own Ne/Neva Eva;1156392 wrote:
Apple juice!
:l

But i was in no mood for kiddie drinks. How are you doing Rudy? Guess i know where to look for that! Over to the rowing thread.

[Sprat]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Ne/Neva Eva;1156392 wrote: I figure by the time one gets to the point where one is ordering medication, unprescribed, using it off-label, well. If one was like me, one had better find some help. Ya' know?

How are you?
:l
Not good Ne, not good. I feel like i am not on meds at all. Yesterday i went to the beach. I had a drink in my hand and my toes in the sand. About 10 of each. I am at a crossroads. I can't keep up HDB, spending a ton of money on meds and then drinking like a fish. But i don't want to abandon ship. (ocean theme here)

bleep;1155823 wrote: Like you though, I don't expect willpower to come in to the equation, which leaves you in a tricky spot. If you can get another AF spree started, you'll probably find it a simple matter to continue. Maybe give that a try?

That's it. Like pre-bac I am waking up everyday saying, 'not today'. but it doesn't hold the whole day. But i was advised when titrating up to kottdp and the rest will sort itself out... and it did! I was drinking less and less and then got the 10 days AF, a miracle from a miracle pill! Then a few beers, then a few more days off... and sliding down and down back to pre-bac level. The shit has hit the fan!

I know the first responders commented on my depression during my AF days, and that is something for me to work on, bac is not magic fix my whole f'ed up life, just, hopefully, the alkie part. But now I am not getting any relief.

But thanks for asking! :H

ps. I am trying a different batch of pills from 4rx now. I know that they did work for me at one point, but also feel it was fishy that they found some 'out of stock' pills after i complained. Will keep you posted!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Something has gone completely wrong - please advise

Let's reassess, please.
How much bac are you taking?

What happened that you started drinking again after the ten days? Dosing? Schedule? PMS? (:H)

How do you feel when you drink? You're drinking an awful lot, and still taking an awful lot of bac. I'm not sure what's up with that. It doesn't really work that way, you know?

When did you start taking the new batch of pills?

Whatever you decide to do, do it in moderation. (:H again.) Seriously, this is no time to make really dramatic changes, you know? Go down a couple of levels. (20mg or 40mg or something, not saying how much, 'cause I'm no doctor.)

Or you could do what some of us (me among them) have done. I'll fill in for Lo0p here, who would say, who does say, "Go up!"
Tiptronic gave one of my inspirations the same advice.
I hate that advice, but I did it. And I hit the switch. So did bleep. BUT square away the source problem first, okay? Because maybe the bac isn't right?

I dunno, my friend, I just don't want you to throw the towel out with the bathwater.
:l

EDIT: This isn't about fixing your life. It's not about all that other stuff. Baclofen works to get rid of the bottle. Period. It should do this regardless, because that's the only thing it does. You can drink through it, or in addition to it, but if you're waking up thinking "not today" and you still end up drinking to pre-bac levels, the bac isn't working at all. I think it's bad bac, Sprat.