Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

[RudyB]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

hiya bottlestopper! i am so sorry to read about the apnea, which i am sure is what you've got. i had a horrible spell with this that lasted 3 or 4 days, including during naps. a couple of nights i slept 1 or 3 hours. i was scared to sleep! i had a thread going on it, which i will bump up to page 1. take a read, it might help reassure you. i have no doubt that this will pass, and you will sleep like a baby again. and you WON'T die! (though i remember fearing that, too. UNfun!)

hang in there! i bet going up 20 mg might help. (what dose are you on now? i bet it's about the same as what i was on when i went through this.) ok, here i go, bumping.

you'll be ok!
rudy

[Texie]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

Hi Bottlestopper,

Wow, that sleep thing sounds very scary, I hope you get over it quickly and don't let it discourage you. I'm doing well, did have some anxiety for the first time since I started this almost 3 weeks ago. Today was a crazy day, over committed myself (once again) and was getting ready to go out of town (big trigger). The anxiety passed. I think some anxiety is part of life and I was able to deal with it. I'm in South Texas tonight and this is the first time in I-can't-remember-when that I have spent the night sober in a hotel room. So far so good. I have a long way to get to your level and I'm hoping I don't have to go that high. I'm going up to 40mg tomorrow and always get a little bit of a foggy head and lose my words for a few days.

Glad your cold is better. Did the nootropics that you got the other day do anything for the foggy brain? What exactly is you get?

Hang in there,
Tex

[bottlestopper]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

Thanks Ne and Ruby for your continued support. You guys are genuinely fantastic.

Texie - great to hear from you again. I am trying hard not to overcommit myself at the moment. I am lucky to be on holiday far away from many triggers. Try and give yourself a break if you can. Learning to say NO is something that we all need to do more of. I dont know if it makes sense, but I found that when I was drinking too much I felt guilty all the time and to prove I was a nice person I would do anything for anyone, never saying NO and putting everyone else first. I have decided that for a while it is going to be "ALL ABOUT ME", this is not in my psychi, but I feel I need to do this to get better again, which ultimately means that those around me will benefit.

the nootropic I am taking is called piracetam, they are memory enhancers and seem to be helping quite a bit. I am still spaced out in the morning, but they do help to keep focus during the day. Still feel very non feeling and low, but I do think a lot of this is due to the sleep apnea thing. Which is definitely not getting better, I had it between midnight and 6 am last night, waking up between every 5 and 10 minutes, with panic and gasping for breath. Awful, at times I just wanted to crawl out of my own body. During those wee hours, I would just have stopped this whole thing if I could have, but knowing I would have to titrate back down and would still possibly have the SE's for a lot longer, I feel today, that I need to carry on. The funny thing is that at about 6am, I can sleep, why is that?

I am going to stay at 140 for a few more days and see how I go on, if by Sunday I am seeing no improvement, I might go up again. If then no improvement after 3 or 4 days, then I will go back down to 100.

For me, the SE's have been far worse since I stopped drinking. Whilst I was drinking on bac, I didnt have any of these SE's which is quite upsetting really.

Anyway today is another day

day 11AF
140mg
day 1 sugar and wheat free - again
15 stone 10.5lbs (hence the wheat and sugar free again)

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

hmmm. A coupla things strike me, BottleStoppage.
First, the thing about the SEs being worse since you stopped drinking. hmmmm. I'm thinking serious anxiety without any release. Sorry to continue drumming the same tune, but it's a theme, you know? A refrain, to continue the lame metaphor... You can medicate it, or you can find another outlet. (exercise and meditation) I highly suggest this as an antidote to what ails. That and/or xanax, if you can get your hands on it. It's not that addictive, as it turns out... It can be extremely useful. I credit xanax and support and titration (and gender, but that's a whole 'nother thread) for my husband's effortless titration. ( I'm still jealous.) (My husband, unlike me, likes a whole host of highs, has abused xanax in the past, as well as a bunch of other stuff... He effortlessly stopped taking it, doesn't need it or want it, but took it ONLY at night and in the morning, as prescribed. If one finds oneself looking for a high, it's time to flush the xanax, you know?)
Honestly, I don't recommend it lightly, but I've done quite a bit of reading into it and it seems as though it's in a class of it's own, in terms of benzos. Anyhoo...

Sorry about the apnea and the ongoing sleep issues. I think one of the reasons I LOVE my 4:30am-7am time is that when I was in the middle of all that, 4:30am was the earliest I let myself get up and start the day. It was blessed relief after the angst-filled nights.

Manage your anxiety, Stopper! And sleep at 6am, if that's what you can do. It works for me sometimes!
jkttdp!
Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

Oh! What are the chances that you can give yourself a break? Eat things in moderation, for instance, and throw out (literally) the damn scale. This is your life, I presume, we're talking about... Give your mind and body whatever it thinks it wants, except booze and within reason, and rest assured that those pounds will FALL off, and your regimen will be relatively effortless once you've met the real goal. Plus, I suspect you'll lose more weight, feel better and etc... if you start doing some pushups and taking a run. If you're doing that, do more. Just my tuppence.
Eyes on the goal at the expense of all else.

[Getting There]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

[QUOTE=Ne/Neva Eva;1162230]Oh! and throw out (literally) the damn scale. This is your life, I presume, we're talking about... Give your mind and body whatever it thinks it wants, except booze and within reason, and rest assured that those pounds will FALL off"

I could not agree more. You are undertaking a huge change in your life and I think you deserve to give yourself a break. One thing at a time and the most important thing is that you are not drinking. I know it is hard when you don't feel well physically but hopefully that will pass soon. The sudden sleep apena is puzzling. I had that when I was drinking and it has actually gone away since I stopped. Anxiety might be playing a big part in this. You are shocking your body and it is reacting....

Hang in there Stopper - we are all here for you. Keep posting and reaching out for support.:l

[RudyB]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

heya stopper,
sorry the apnea continues. like i said, mine lasted just a few days. i bet yours will, too. and i'd say keep gradually upping your dose. i wouldn't go down. se's always pass, except, in many cases, the sleepiness. movement helps much with that one!

[redhead77]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

I, too, think you shouldn't worry about your weight right now. I would even go so far as to say, eat what you crave right now. If you gain some weight in the early months while trying to take bac, and get control of the beast, then so be it. You can work it all out later. I gained weight early on in my bac experience. A rather signifigant amount for the short time it was. I was pretty distressed about it. I couldn't push myself to exercise early on, and I couldn't force a strict diet on myself. All I could do is force myself to take the pills at that time. This was enough!! I've since lost the weight and then some.

I've never had the sleep thing. I can only imagine how alarming it must be. I (and the others who give you wonderful advice), have read about this side effect from others who have had it. It seems it's one of the scariest side effects of bac. I (We) have never read of anyone having permanent injury from it.

I've had difficulty breathing while awake, at a certain dose or two. This was just recently. When I titrated up it went away. It was very annoying to have to focus on every breath I took. :H I kept wondering at work when people were sitting next to me, if they thought I had labored breathing. I don't think so, it wasn't labored. It just seemed to be in my mind, from the muscle relaxant effects. I could have been scared, but I wasn't. I know this has happened to many here, and while it feels scary, it does pass...eventually.

[bleep]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

I had the breathing thing. I'd sit bolt upright in the dead of night, and draw a huge and noisy breath in, out the blue, scaring the bejesus out of my wife! She'd sit bolt upright and shriek, I'd end up finding the whole thing hilarious, and end up laughing while I was short of breath and make the whole thing worse.

It passes.

It's also level dependent, so try and go up. This will help in your quest to get there quicker anyway.

[bottlestopper]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

Hi guys thanks for the advice re the weight thing. Its just that at nearly 16 stone, I just dont recognise myself. My daughter just got married and I saw the photos and I was disgusted. One of the main reasons to kick this alcohol thing. I think that i am feeling quite depressed at the moment and being the weight I am contributes to this. I know I am trying to run before I can walk, and it is a traight of mine. ho hum, a lifteime of high achieving and almost unattainable goals.

Bleep and other senior members - you talk about going up to stop the SE's i went up to 130 on wednesday, then 140 yesterday, se's seem a little worse if anything. Should I try going up again, if so when?

[bleep]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

Stopper- the reason I say go up when something is grim, is that the SE's on baclofen are normally very dose dependent, and will change according to the dose you're on. Saying that, if you choose to scream up through the doses, you'll get more SE's than someone who tiptoes through them. I think. The thing is, is you'll get them for less time. I think if I had to do it all over again, I'd go quickly, but that's just me. Some prefer to go slower. Only you can decide.

As to the weight issue... Fuck the weight. If you can sort this out, then you can sort out the weight. Easily. But only after this is no longer an issue. YMMV.

[Health&Happiness]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

Hi BS ,
I don't have time to read all the posts so sorry if I'm repeating something someone else has already wrote. Yes please listen to Bleep and Peter Griffin (I forget his name but that's his av ). You must split the pills up and it DOES take time. I'm at 75 now - was at 150 at one point - I have an 8 -hour/day job really 9-hour and, of course, I can't fall asleep either and even at 150 I didn't have trouble falling asleep - b/c I split them up and not at 20 at a time - at 12.5 (I have 25mg pills). I never take 25 at once - I'm actually afraid to. And now for 2 weeks I've been working out for an hour and half - in the hot sun - after taking 75mg. So just want to stress you can do it if you split up doses and really it's a breeze after a while. And, if, like I think I saw Ne wrote you take time titing up. 120 in 6 days I think I saw?? That's too much. Give it time. Take 12.5 at a time. I have a schedule in my Outlook calendar. I take one when I first wake up then one (HALF of course) when I leave for work, then every two hours. I take my last at 5:30 right before I work out. No issues at all but please take time and do half doses and you should be fine. I did have headaches and chest pain ONE DAY I should say and that scared me so I tited down to 75 but think I'm going up to 100. So of course you'll have some SE's but hopefully, like mine, hardly bothersome. You prob will get A LOT less sleep but I kind of like it. I used to sleep in a lot on weekdays and now there are a lot more hours in the day. But other than that I don't have any major SE's and most of mine are pleasant really, especially the NO DRINKING thing! Sorry for the ramble but just want to stress the importance, like Mr. Bleep has been saying in splitting up. I see the apnea thing above. I only had that a few times when I first started. I NEVER get that anymore. It was just at the beginning when I was popping pills with no schedule. Once you get the schedule down, I think you'll be fine. Best of luck BS!!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

Stopperino-
I dunno the answers to your questions and I'm too far removed from my own experience to remember well enough...
Bottom line? It's up to you. You're in a hurry. That makes it easy to suggest going up, up, up! But that might be the road that leads you to give up. And baclofen is a powerful tool. It's not one (imo) to be squandered.

You're not drinking, right? But your anxiety is, it sounds like, off the charts.
I would highly suggest dealing with the anxiety and then deciding what to do about the bac.

Part of your anxiety is your weight. One way to deal with weight is to exercise, which also helps with anxiety, and overall well being.

Restrictive diets do not work very well for controlling weight or for general well being. It's in the science as well as in the anecdotes. Get off that merry-go-round, my sister. It's a tentacle of the beast trying to control your life.

You WILL lose weight. You don't even have to gain weight when taking bac. Those of us that exercise do not gain weight on bac. I walked when I felt like my feet were disconnected from my body. I distinctly remember that. I didn't know then that it was one of the few things I did absolutely right on my journey up the bac-ladder. (Thanks Lo0p!!!)

I'll say this again, and sorry to continue the bludgeoning with this info, but I think it's very relevant: I have never heard/seen/read about one person who titrated up really quickly, found the goal and stayed there. Except Lo0p. Not one.

Deal with your anxiety as quickly and as well as you can and the bac may become effortless, Bottlestopper. Really.

Hang in. It really, really works, and it's really, really worth it when it does.
Much :h

[bottlestopper]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

things are getting worse, not better.

Just to make sure everyone knows my titration schedule (some seem to think I have gone up really quickly). I have been on bac for about 6 weeks. I started on 3 x 10 and increased about every 3 days by 10. I was drinking every night (and quite excessively) until I hit 120 and I then decided to give this thing a chance and stop drinking.

I had some sleepinesss (not severe) before this and felt a bit spaced out at times, but I was drinking a lot, was very busy with a family wedding and had 23 guests staying in my house and was managing OK.
When I first went to 120 and stopped drinking I felt OK, a little down cos all my family had left, but that is normal for me. now I did go straight up from 100 to 120, maybe this was the problem. I started to have really bad SE's listed below.

1 Extreme somlonence - so, so tired, can hardly stay awake during the day
2 Sore throat, breathing problems (getting much better with help of clariton and mucinex)
3 Sleep apnea - terrible this is the worst of the lot. waking up every 3 - 10 minutes in the night, feeling i am suffocating and TERRIBLE anxiety with it. I cannot tell you how awful this is, I feel like I am dying. I have got to the stage now where I am scared to go to sleep. I can usually get to sleep about 6 am and then cant get up in the morning (why is this?) and if I sleep during the day this doesnt happen (any ideas why?)
4 Twitching limbs - my hands keep twitching, my legs feel like I need to kick them every few minutes, almost hurt and I feel I need to get rid of something in my legs (very werd feeling), my eyes were twitching but this has now been replaced by the limbs instead
5 Depression - this is a biggie. I have suffered from depression before, but not like this. I can tell it is chemically induced, I just feel completely devoid of all feelings (apart from exasperation with how I am feeling), I dont feel happiness or joy at all. I had my 9 month old grandaughter yesterday, I love having her, but yesterday when she was giggling at me, I felt nothing. How awful is that. I cant stop crying everything is sad to me at the moment. I cant get any mojo to do anything at all. I am normally such a positive person, and it is just not like me to be so negative.

Good SE's
1 I have next to no anxiety any more, this started off at 100 mg with a real sense of peace, but now I just dont feel anything, but the only time I get anxiety is when I awake in the middle of the night with sleep apnea thing, that is so scarey anyone would be anxious
2 I am not drinking, I dont know how many days (think it is 12 today), I dont crave, I dont drink. However, I do think about alcohol and keep thinking I would love a glass of wine, but I just dont do it, the bac is giving me the support to do that at the moment, However, if I started feeling more like myself and not so ill, it probably wont be enough. I definitely havent hit the switch.

So I went up to 120 11 days ago, when I stopped drinking, this is when my SE's got really worse. 3 days ago I went to 140 and split them up 7 x 20. Still no better, in fact in lots of ways worse. At times I just want to crawl out of my own skin and I HATE this feeling, more than I hated the feeling when I was drinking. At least then I had some good feelings and the buzz for alcohol made things ok for a few hours in 24, now I feel crap all the time.

So here is what I am thinking, maybe I need to go down a bit, and take it much, more slowly. Should I go back down to 100, here I was drinking, but I wasnt trying not to either. So I should be able to go AF on this dose after 12 days??? Hopefully the SE's will abate enough for me to do some of the pile of work I need to do before I go back to school. I have very little time left and so much to do, but I cant do anyting the way I am at the moment, I am far too spaced out to concentrate.

I was hoping to hit the switch and have this cracked by the end of the holidays, but I just dont think I can go on like this. I wont have this time without work again for a very long time, so I feel a bit sad at having to take a step backwards as I am worried that I wont be able to get to a low enough dose to function, but one that helps me beat the demon. The other option is to white knuckle it and keep goiing up and hope I will hit a better place soon.

Please dont see this as a big whinge, it really isnt at all, but the reality is that I am really struggling. The mind is definitely willing, but the body isnt. I am just hoping that with the help of you guys I can get to a working solution. Please help, I am really struggling!!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Here goes - Bottlestopper's Baclofen journal

Bottlestopper.

I have a bevy of suggestions that may or may not help. I'm happy to share them when/if you want.

The bottom line is this: You're safe. This is safe. Bac is safe.

I had terrible SEs through much of my journey. I've erased most of that, sadly, but the ones that are still around can testify. It was terrible. I often felt as though I was nuts, that this was crazier than crazy, that I was dooming myself.
Fortunately I was wrong. Very wrong. It was still often excruciating.

I share this simply so you don't feel alone, and so you know that I lived through it. Not only that, I kept taking myself to the doctor/emergency room to make sure that I was okay. Really. I went to the ER three times, saw the doctor maybe a dozen times, had an MRI, two physicals... I was physically fine. It was infuriating and crazy-making, because at times it seemed like my eyes weren't working (they weren't!) and my limbs were behaving as if they had their own agenda (they did, I guess.) And more.

SO. Lack of sleep makes all of the SEs much, much worse. You must sleep.

I suspect that you should go down. (You could go up, too.) Go down to 120mg, say, and see how that feels. You cannot predict, based on your experience at 120mg yesterday, what it will be like for you tomorrow. Really.
If that doesn't bring some cessation you could go down to 100mg.

The important thing, in my opinion, is not the amount of bac, exactly. It's managing the anxiety related to the bac. I think it's going to get worse if you can't get some sleep, and you take more.

I'm glad the cold meds are working. This will help.

If you can sleep when you feel sleepy, I hope you will.

I hope you know that it will get better. It will all stop. Then you'll like bac. It did and I do. Taking it gave me so much more than I anticipated. I'm so glad I did it. I can't tell you how many times I almost gave up, though. Too many to count! oy.

Many :ls