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    Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

    Hi All,

    :new:

    Well today is the day I begin my journey. I'm pretty anxious, but then I have been for the last 18 years! so nothing new there. I have been drinking on a daily basis for 15 years now and am only 35, so most of my adult life. I used to follow the family rule of not drinking before 6pm. This of course means you can't possibly be an alcoholic so that's fine.

    I didn't have a problem with that for years and functioned fine, or so I told myself. It wasn't until a girlfriend I was with told me very directly I was an alcoholic. She's doesn't hold back when she has something on her mind. When I started to question this myself, a whole new world of pain opened up. Where I had been making it through the day, counting the hours until 6pm rife with anxiety. I hadn't been considering the alcoholic thing, as alcohol was the cure to my anxiety every day. Once this was put into question, I started getting anxious when I drank. This wasn't the plan. She killed my enjoyment of alcohol! As deep down I knew she was right, I stayed with her and I admired the fact she seemed to live for each day and I wanted that. What ensued were more and more arguments over my drinking, followed by more frequent 'All nighters' by me going off in a huff. After a few years of this, my self esteem was really low and depression kicked in. I didn't know what it was. I knew I felt pretty shit most of the time, but kept on drinking. The 6pm rule was upheld most of the time, but sometimes I needed a few just to leave the house to go and buy more!

    Moving forward some time, I had this depression which I called helmet head due to the fact I felt I was wearing a crash helmet all the time. I decided to buy some valium online, as I thought that would ease things. 6 weeks later I ended up on another all nighter. I was staying with my parents abroad at the time. I remember leaving their place at 9pm, then a huge blank, but returned at 4pm the following day and put my hands in the air and said 'HELP ME'

    I saw the Doc, who confirmed I was an alcoholic. Even though I usually drank after 6pm. Thanks Pal ! and that I was definitely depressed. So the plan was simple. Stop drinking and take Antidepressants. I was given 3 days worth of detox pills, and i followed his instructions, apart from the going to AA part. I stayed sober for 8 Months somehow, and got back together with the girl who called me an alcoholic in the first place...... and started drinking again. Hmmm...... a pattern is emerging here.

    Boy this is a long post. Long story short. 1 rehab stint a year ago and had my first taste of AA, followed by 3 Months sober. Came off my antidepressants (slowly) myself because I thought I was fine. Big argument with the girlfriend, break up again and then a 4 day drinking spree feeling pretty suicidal, followed by going back to the rehab a few Months ago, only to realise 10 minutes later I didn't want to be there and immediately jumping over the wall and made it to my Sisters house. I guess my brain, even though saturated with alcohol knew I had tried that route before and it didn't work for me. I went back to see my Psychiatrist and that's pretty much it up until now.

    I took my Psychiatrist an article I had found about Doctor Ameisen, which interested her a lot. Also, after trying AA, I don't see it as an answer for me and she knows that. She said as a Doctor she couldn't give me a prescription for Baclofen, but as a friend she said 'Go for it' knowing that I would probably order it online anyway. That's me these days. Self medicating Doctor of all things Google!

    The only reservation both of us have is that I am taking 45mg of Mirtazapine at the moment, and can't find anything about it combined with Baclofen, so am feeling a bit nervous. The Mirtazapine makes me drowsy at night as it is, so with Baclofen I'm a little concerned about going to sleep and forgetting to breathe!

    I ordered 200 x 10mg pills and have started today with a plan of doing 5mg 3 times a day for 5 days, then maybe going to 10mg 3 times a day. Does that sound like a normal plan? Am I better off taking less more frequently? Also, has anyone else used Aclepsa before for their Baclofen? That's where I got mine. Also the guy on the homepage looks a bit like Dr Ameisen. Solid reason for using them!

    Well.... here I go! and if you're still awake after this post I look forward to your comments and help on what is hopefully my Bac journey to freedom!

    #2
    Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

    Hey Jimmy. Welcome. One of the lines in your post really got to me"

    She said as a Doctor she couldn't give me a prescription for Baclofen, but as a friend she said 'Go for it' knowing that I would probably order it online anyway
    As a friend why didn't she say she'd research it??? I'd call her on that one. Tell her if she needs to talk to a respected source she can all my shrink, Dr. Mark Willenbring, former director Treatment and Recovery Research Division of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism/National Institutes of Health. He can be reached at 651-241-5959.

    You're one of the few that recognized early on rehab isn't working. My brother was in & out of treatment for 20 years. I believe he was in 8 separate treatment programs as prescibed by the docs. When he went into what is considered the "cadillac" of treatment programs we all thought he was going to get better. My brother was even in there the same time as the renowned comedian, Chris Farley. But they're both dead now so I guess they were'nt one of the lucky ones to survive. So kudos on trying to find a better way.

    It's good you're thinking carefullly about your dosage schedule. Once you come up with a plan whatever that may be, stick with it no matter how excited and impatient you get. I was really whooping it up when I realized bac was working so went up from 60mg per day to around 160. (Not totally sure because I wasn't counting.) I tried to dose down just as quickly and went into big-time withdrawal and landed in the hospital. Absolute rule to NEVER break. Be consistent. Dose up and dose down in small increments (usually 5 to 20mg). Stay at the new level a minimum of 3 days. Get a pill box or whatever device to make sure you're not messing up your dosages. Don't just pop a pill from the bottle (like I did) when you think it's time to take a dose.

    My schedule was the same as yours to start and prescribed by my doctor. Only diff was my 15 mg a day was for 3 days followed by the 30 mg a day. After the first couple weeks started increasing by 10 mg every 3-4 days. At around 60 mg started going up in 20 mg increments. Also started spreading it over 4x a day. Today I'm going to spread 6x a day.

    Can't speak to the Mirtazapine however I am taking doxepin. When I went to the hospital it was prescribed as a sleep aide. It has been helpful in that dept. As far as I know, no interactions with the bac.

    Again, welcome and get ready for a new day.

    Comment


      #3
      Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

      Hey Jimmy, and welcome.

      Glad you found us. Bear in mind that all the advice you'll receive here is based on personal experience, and not a jot of medical knowledge! With that caveat, I know someone who takes Mirtazapine and baclofen, with no apparent ill effects, so I think you're covered on that one. Also bear in mind that when you're looking for contraindications, they are assuming you are talking about a sensible dose of baclofen!

      Your titration plan is fine. You could speed it up if you wanted to, but it's fine. In a nutshell, a normal titration plan is 3x5 for a couple of days, 3x10 for a couple of days, then add 20mg's every 4 or 5 days. Just keep adding until you get there. As yet, we don't know of factors that influence how high you'll have to go - some hit it early, some have to go higher. A random roll of the dice, at this point.

      A word of advice - order more baclofen now. You end up going through it at an amazing rate once you get up in dose, and once you've been on it for a couple of months, you don't want to run out.

      For me, it was also other people who told me I had a problem. I thought I just liked to party more than the average guy. Much, much more than the average guy. I tried rehab, but very quickly decided it wasn't for me. Luckily I found baclofen, which, so far, is working beautifully.

      Best of luck.

      Comment


        #4
        Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

        Hi HopefulinMN,

        Thanks for the info on dosages. I will definitely keep it slow and steady. In fact, I'm staying with my Sister while I do this and she is going to be my reminder and gaurdian of the pills so I don't try and take too many!

        Sorry to hear about your Brother. It always saddens me to hear about death related to alcohol or addictions. It is such a shame that in this day and age it's not that easy to get answers and a clear cut treatment for these things. I got so frustrated with the depression side of things it was actually that I went to the rehab place for. It was soon clear to me that talking about alcohol and going to AA meetings was number 1 on the agenda. It's a shame, because I really thought I would get more out of it than just 24/7 I'm me and I'm an alcoholic. I kept thinking, I'm sure I'm more than just that!

        One thing I worked out is that my depression is basically me searching for answers to questions that haven't been asked. Basically worrying myself about nothing and over thinking things.

        Thanks for the number of Dr. Mark Willenbring. My Psychiatrist did say she was going to research it further while I waited for the pills to arrive, so I shall ask her again on Thursday.

        I'm still feeling anxious, but positive that this could be one of those answers I have been looking for.

        I look forward to reading, posting and becoming part of the community here.

        Thanks for the welcome,

        Jimmy

        Comment


          #5
          Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

          Hi bleep,

          Thanks for the welcome and putting my mind at rest now knowing someone else has taken it with Mirtazapine. Funny how I worry about that, yet didn't think about any consequences of mixing alcohol with Mirtazapine! (and citalopram and valium too at one point!)

          My plan is to do this without drinking, but I have had a few nights recently when I just couldn't bear the inner addict and anxiety, and ended up having a few. I have managed satisfy the urge by substituting normal beer with a 1% shandy on a few nights. I'm not silly though and know if I didn't start on Baclofen now, I would no doubt be consuming 40 of those 1% drinks, or the old 'it's only beer' trick would have me back on full strength lager before I knew it. My main drink was red wine, but I am not even going to start on that slope! I used to think (and still do actually) that 1 bottle of wine a night is not much. The reality was I drank closer to 2 bottles anyway. Either way, I hope to look back through 'non alcoholic eyes' and see the reality of what I have been putting my body through.

          It's great to hear the baclofen is working for you and I can't wait to see the positive things it can bring my way.

          I'm going to order some more pills now, as I can see what you mean about it running out quickly. I don't know if it can be discussed here or not, but is there a preferred online place to get it for those of us without prescriptions?

          Thanks again,

          Jimmy

          Comment


            #6
            Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

            Doing this whole thing without drinking is definitely the easier path to follow. Drinking tends to make the SE's much worse the next day, but it will still be effective either way.

            As to ordering online, here are a few places that people use. As to which is better, perhaps someone who has used them can chime in, which I'm sure they will shortly...

            https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ine-35483.html

            Comment


              #7
              Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

              Thanks bleep and Thanks Lusus Naturae for the Links and descriptions.

              I noticed that Aclepsa that I used and have just re-ordered from seem to have a remarkably similar website and offer on re-orders as 4rx. I just got an extra 20% of pills added for using them again. Seems like a good deal to me. Just out of interest, my pills are very easy to break, but don't have a scored line in the middle. They are just plain, white & round. Almost chalk like and don't seem to have any taste to them on the tongue. I wonder if that's the same for everyone else, Or have I just started taking and ordered more chalk!

              Well nearly bed time here and day 1 completed. I have taken 3 x 5mg (hopefully not chalk) today and managed to stay away from alcohol other than one 330ml can of shandy that is 0.9% so I think I should be safe from a hangover in the morning.

              Comment


                #8
                Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

                Hi Jimmy, Relieved to know your doc is researching. If she's still not convinced, definitly have her call Willenbring. He'll be a big help although won't be using me as any poster child any time soon. Was reading my chart and my problem list included "patient nonadherence." Anyway, I doubt you'll be needing to order online for much longer. I hope. Sorry about your depression. I have a new found empathy for those that have this disorder. When I was withdrawing from bac, I experienced horrible depression. I can't believe how it weighs you down. I hope the bac will help. Please keep us posted.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

                  Hiya JJ! Sorry for the following hijack!

                  HOPEFUL! HI!!!
                  Great to *see* you here! Really. gosh, I'm fairly blown away.

                  Great post too, full of wisdom and insight.

                  Welcome to MWO!

                  HopefulinMN;1159232 wrote: Dr. Mark Willenbring, former director Treatment and Recovery Research Division of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism/National Institutes of Health. He can be reached at 651-241-5959.
                  I wonder if you would put that information on this thread:

                  https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ion-47247.html

                  I'll do it if you like, but it's better coming from the person who participated with the doctor.

                  Also, if you would put your prescribed and actual titration protocols here, that too would be useful. Sorry for the imposition!

                  https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...aclofen+thread

                  JJ, I can't think of anything to say that others haven't said. Especially this: Get ready for a new day!!!

                  :l
                  Ne

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

                    And hi Hopeful! sorry, I've been on autopilot these last few days, and didn't read who was posting! Good to see you here.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

                      Ha! You and me both, Bleep! I confused Jimmy-Bac with JimmyJam. oy.

                      SORRY Jimmy! and Welcome! And yay, you!

                      There's a list of contraindicated meds on the thread that I have linked in my signature. I know you have to be cautious with sleep aids because they can further retard the CNS functions. I don't know much more than that!

                      Your gf sounds pretty cool, Jim. I'm glad for you and "hi" to her, too.
                      :l
                      Ne

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

                        And there was I thinking I already had a new Nickname here.

                        Thanks for the welcome and info.

                        It seems I managed to mix the Baclofen 3 x 5mg and my dose of Mirtazapine 45mg without going to sleep permanently last night. Always a good sign!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

                          HopefulinMN;1159455 wrote: Sorry about your depression. I have a new found empathy for those that have this disorder. When I was withdrawing from bac, I experienced horrible depression. I can't believe how it weighs you down. I hope the bac will help. Please keep us posted.
                          Thanks Hopeful. The Mirtazapine has me at a fairly good level. I don't have the what's the point of getting out of bed thing going on, which always helps one to start their day with more ease.

                          One thing I will say for depression. When I was really in the thick of it, I had no anxiety. I was too low to feel anxious! funny how anxiety has been such a big part of my life and then this other monster comes along and makes it feel so unimportant. Very strange. Even stranger that I've been in a place where I laughed at anxiety and yet now the depression has lifted the anxiety slips back in there.

                          I'm ready to say Piss Off to both depression & anxiety and move on now. If the Bac doesn't work for any reason, I'll still find a way!! It's time.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

                            hi there jimmy-bac! great to read your post! you've told so much, and so well. long posts are welcome in my book.

                            it was wild to read about your shandy. i had a stint of sobriety, about a year and a half, in my late twenties (i'm now 41 and 3/4). it was ended after my 30th (?) birthday party, when everyone had gone home and i was alone in a quiet railroad tenement apartment, five rooms in a row, voices echoing in my own head, and nothing better to do than to mix myself a shandy. it was 7 am. (i had recently gone to trinidad, where i discovered this drink, and became good friends with a gal who would later sublet my brooklyn apt when she lived here and i moved to the ny countryside, leaving me with an $8K bill to cover her ass when she moved out. but i digress.) so, easily i reached the leftover lager and the ginger ale, and voila, therein that moment my sobriety ended.

                            fast forward ten years give or take and a permanent move to the countryside, and i've been taking baclofen since april, with very good results. i was about to flush my single-momhood life down the toilet with my quantities of cheap vodka, when i found mwo and baclofen. you should see my life! in the middle of a divorce, i've been remodeling my house, getting a new car (yes, homeownership in this country affords you access to money at very low interest rates), gardening like crazy, cleaning out closets and cupboards, and being a much more present mother to my cherished son.

                            stay here, jimmy crack corn jimmy bac. you've definitely landed in a beautiful community full of the most supportive and intelligent people you might never even be able to imagine!

                            bienvenidos, hermanito!
                            rudy b

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hoping this is the start of my journey to freedom

                              That's the spirit Jim. Attitude is extremely important through this.

                              And to answer your earlier question about breaking the tablets - they do taste and break like chalk, so maybe yours is the real thing. Unless we've both got chalk. But this chalk seems to work anyway.

                              Comment

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