Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

[gotta stop]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

Cassander;1164580 wrote: Ne, I'm not being rigorously scientific when I suggest this (please don't hang me for it), but a really hopeful analogy might be to chemotherapy, which actually eliminates the cancer and the patient becomes cancer free.

Wouldn't it be nice to stand up in an AA meeting and honestly be able to say, "Hi, I'm Cass. I am no longer an alchoholic. I'm cured."

I would like to chime in here...
If we compare this to chemo therapy and for arguements sake say that the chemo eliminated the cancer - I am still a little hesitant to say that one is "cured". One still may have a gene that predisposes them to cancer which means they still have to foster a lifestyle which reduces risk - ie; not smoking. So if this is true - just becasue some one achieves sobriety, it doesnt mean that they are "cured" they still must take steps to avoid alcoholism - not drink.

[Bruunhilde]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

Gotta, that's what I was thinking. If you stop chemo, the cancer COULD come back. If you stop the baclofen, the alcoholism COULD come back. In fact, we've seen that happen here when people titrate down their cravings go up. If I recall correctly.

[LittleLessBoozin']

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

Bruunhilde;1164865 wrote: Gotta, that's what I was thinking. If you stop chemo, the cancer COULD come back. If you stop the baclofen, the alcoholism COULD come back. In fact, we've seen that happen here when people titrate down their cravings go up. If I recall correctly.

Sadly, Bruun, it is not that the alcoholism /could/ come back, but that it /does/ :-(

[Bruunhilde]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

That's been my observation too but so many times it has been called a "cure" here that I no longer say all what I'm thinking.

[bleep]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

I still think I have massive moral shortcomings.

And now you're telling me I have a brain disorder as well?

Jesus, kick a man when he's down, you lot. Heartless bloody bunch.

[Otter]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

I think a good place to start is always Joan Larson's book Seven Weeks to Sobriety. She gives a very good description of how alcohol itself damages the brain in such a way that your brain effectively becomes "disabled". Her approach is to correct brain chemistry, to make the brain well so that it produces its own chemicals. On her theory, once your brain is "repaired" you have recovered, physically, from alcholism in so far as it is a brain/chemical disorder.

There are two aspects of her theory which are interesting. She goes on to say that there are other aspects of alcoholism and recommends changes of diet and counselling to address underlying issues. She also discusses a condition called "dry drunk" syndrome. I think she sums it all up quite well.

IMHO everyone suffers from anxiety and pretty well everyone drinks. If you have too much anxiety it is an illness and if you resort to drinking you are an alcoholic. Some people have severe anxiety and do other things, like become obsessed with buying clothes, gambling, smoking, taking drugs, sex etc.

That is my take on it. But what do I know.

I am glad the article has been published.

In a way alcoholism is a bit like leprosy. People used to think it was contagious which meant lepers lived in colonies as outcasts. Alcoholics are treated badly because people think it is a "behavioural" issue so it is okay to treat an alcoholic cruelly on the basis that punishing them will force them to change their behaviour (which they can't). That makes the condition worse because it heightens the anxiety.

Knowing that it is a brain disorder means that there is no excuse for brutalizing sufferers any more than a sufferer of Tourettes would be brutalized for swearing in public. Ultimately, alcoholics should be treated with the same compassion and understanding as anyone with an illness.

[LittleLessBoozin']

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

That's been my observation too but so many times it has been called a "cure" here that I no longer say all what I'm thinking.

LOL! Sorry Bruun, I forgot that some people are capable of alien-to-me concepts such as 'diplomacy' ;-)

[Greg]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

I think it's a positive step for alcohol dependence to be recognized as a primary disorder that has a neurological basis, although I also believe it can be secondary to other issues for some people.

From the life stories of alcoholic friends, and stories I have heard at AA, some alcoholics must have a primary brain dysfunction and will drink uncontrollably even if other things in their lives are going well. Others seem to have a combination of alcoholism with one or more emotional disorders and life issues, although of course sometimes the issues came before the drinking and sometimes were caused or worsened by drinking. Personally I originally began relying on alcohol as a self medication for problems that already existed (anxiety, depression, insomnia) but then came to also chase after the high that alcohol gave me.

As for brain chemicals, like others here I think that GABA and perhaps natural GHB could play a big role in alcoholism (especially for Ameisen's anxious type of alcoholics), but I have also read numerous times that endorphins and dopamine are likely to play a major role. The theory with these, from what I have read, is that alcohol causes enhanced release of beta endorphin in certain predisposed individuals, and when this activates opioid receptors, dopamine activity in parts of the brain is also enhanced. It would seem logical that some alcoholics may drink due to having deficient endorphin or dopamine activity in the first place, which alcohol may partly "correct", but many will probably then chase after this feeling to an excessive degree and look forward to having regularly enhanced dopamine/endorphin levels!

My point is that I don't think that a single cause of alcohol dependence exists to explain every case, but rather that it has several causes, and that more than one brain chemical can be responsible.

[susiesmum]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

Thanks, and congratulations on a constructive, helpful, respectful discussion! Keep it up.

[Cassander]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

Ne/Neva Eva;1164533 wrote: ...I don't think drunkenness will ever be an excuse, except perhaps a lame one in personal disagreements, for wrong doing. In fact, if there is a disorder and one is not being treated for it, or IS being treated for it with the only treatment available, and continues to drink, well, the ramifications don't change much! Yer still goin' to jail!...

When I suggested in an earlier post that recognition of alcoholism as a brain disorder might have ramifications in criminal law, I didn't mean that courts are going to start excusing drunken wrong doing.

I think where I was heading, or stumbling, is that if the underlying problem is medically treatable, then courts might begin to seriously consider referring alcoholics to medical treatment (such as baclofen), as opposed to traditional rehab or 12 step programs.

It seems to me that the criminal justice system today (at least in the US) is heavily weighted toward 12 step treatments which may not be as successful as medical treatment.

[Vicki11]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

I think this is great news. My Dr. sees it this way too.

[gratitude]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

Greg,
I completely agree. I always thought that perhaps the Amiesen alkies probably do well with BAC. and the reward pathway dopamine folks would do well to try the Sinclair method. interesting. thats why I always come down to " is there a neurotransmitter test of some sort to determine if one is deficient in one or the other"? grat

[Greg]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

gratitude;1166870 wrote: Greg,
I completely agree. I always thought that perhaps the Amiesen alkies probably do well with BAC. and the reward pathway dopamine folks would do well to try the Sinclair method. interesting. thats why I always come down to " is there a neurotransmitter test of some sort to determine if one is deficient in one or the other"? grat

Grat, I happened to be reading about neurotransmitter testing a few days ago, probably when I was looking up some things about dopamine and depression. It has always frustrated me that there is no way, apart from behavioural signs, of getting an idea of someone's neurotransmitter functioning.

From what I can tell, no currently available test is available that is accurate for neurotransmitters in the brain, because the same chemicals are used by other parts of the body as well and the results would not properly separate brain chemical levels from the overall levels. This is how it was explained by a doctor/scientist whose work I was reading. From memory he said that only testing of cerebro-spinal fluid could give an accurate result for the brain's chemical levels. Also, the test would not show up deficiencies in receptor numbers or functioning, or other variables, even if it did give accurate brain readings.

Other people may dispute this, and I'll try to find the article as a reference. I'm sure some places do test for neurotransmitters with urine and maybe other tests, but this guy basically said you can't get an accurate result that way.

[Greg]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

Below is one article by a doctor about neurotransmitter testing:

Urinary Neurotransmitter Testing: Valid or Hype? | AlaimoChiropractic.com

I have no idea if CSF tests can be performed routinely, so that is something that would have to be looked up as well.

[special]

Addiction Now Defined As Brain Disorder, Not Behavioral Issue!

I have just happened upon this site today. I read Ameisen's book about 3 years ago when I was in France and brought it back to South Africa to see whether anyone here could help with bac. to date no go. I am not the addict but someone I love dearly is and watching them destroy themselves is awful. Just wish I knew how to get bac here.