The Truth about Naltrexone

[Otter]

Well, here I am back where I said I wouldn't be.

I just paid a visit to the Sinclair Method forum. What an eye opener.

Far from being the successful treatment that some are claiming it to be, there is little evidence of that on the forum. Massive side effects, people wondering if it works at all. People on it for over a year and feeling no different at all. People taking who are not alcoholics at all, just drink excessively once every few months, if that.

I couldn't find a thread that went past one page.

Here is one of the posts:

Dear All,

I have asked the same question to doctor Eskapa as well but would like to know your thoughts as well.

I have been taking Naltrexone for the last one and a half years. I have seen no significant improvement, in fact no improvement, I have some bad days and I have good days. However I would really like if the TSM worked on me. How long should I keep trying to see if TSM will work on me ?

I roughly drink at-least 375ml of whiskey an evening.

I have been taking the Naltrexone about 95% of the time when I drink. Does effect me in any way ? Sometimes I forget to take it.

I have bought your book but not read it yet.

Looking forward to an answer from all of you.

Kind regards,

needhelp



That is one of the better ones. Naltrexone not only knocks out your desire to drink but other pleasures as well, ie., sexual pleasure.

Oh, and opiode receptors do increase from taking it so as to compensate.

I think coming to this forum and trying to get people to take Naltrexone is a big disservice and people need to know how successful or unsuccessful it is. I suggest you go to the TSM forums and have a look. It makes very depressing reading. It might work for some but I wonder how many/few that really is..

[Otter]

The Truth about Naltrexone

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[terryk]

The Truth about Naltrexone

Otter;1172731 wrote: Well, here I am back where I said I wouldn't be.

I just paid a visit to the Sinclair Method forum. What an eye opener.

Far from being the successful treatment that some are claiming it to be, there is little evidence of that on the forum. Massive side effects, people wondering if it works at all. People on it for over a year and feeling no different at all. People taking who are not alcoholics at all, just drink excessively once every few months, if that.

I couldn't find a thread that went past one page.

Here is one of the posts:

Dear All,

I have asked the same question to doctor Eskapa as well but would like to know your thoughts as well.

I have been taking Naltrexone for the last one and a half years. I have seen no significant improvement, in fact no improvement, I have some bad days and I have good days. However I would really like if the TSM worked on me. How long should I keep trying to see if TSM will work on me ?

I roughly drink at-least 375ml of whiskey an evening.

I have been taking the Naltrexone about 95% of the time when I drink. Does effect me in any way ? Sometimes I forget to take it.

I have bought your book but not read it yet.

Looking forward to an answer from all of you.

Kind regards,

needhelp



That is one of the better ones. Naltrexone not only knocks out your desire to drink but other pleasures as well, ie., sexual pleasure.

Oh, and opiode receptors do increase from taking it so as to compensate.

I think coming to this forum and trying to get people to take Naltrexone is a big disservice and people need to know how successful or unsuccessful it is. I suggest you go to the TSM forums and have a look. It makes very depressing reading. It might work for some but I wonder how many/few that really is.

Otter, cleaning up after you has become a full time job. What is the point of this post?

I haven't had any success with naltrexone, and I certainly didn't have any with AA, but I would *NEVER* stomp on them pubically in a place where PEOPLE COME AND RELY ON THEM FOR SUPPORT/TREATMENT!

What the FUCK is wrong with you?

I remember early this year, some of the local trolls tried to take a similar tack against *baclofen*. You're in good company.

It's so ironic that you talk about disservice on this forum, when it's clear that you haven't taken a look in the mirror yourself. You think you know so much about baclofen, but your posts (which read like gospel) are filled with inaccuracies, unfounded speculation, declarations that fly in contrast to empirical evidence (posted on this forum), and statements that fall completely outside a basic understanding of biochemistry.

pretty much disgusted, -tk

[Otter]

The Truth about Naltrexone

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[Otter]

The Truth about Naltrexone

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[Guest]

The Truth about Naltrexone

Naltrexone has turned my life and attitude to alcohol around without affecting my enjoyment of other things in my life.

Last night I started a glass of wine and left it half finished. The other two nights I decided to have a drink I stopped at one also. Remainder of the time I have been AF with no problems at all and zero side effects.

It's worked for me and has freed me from the bind of alcohol. I don't know why you'd want to put anyone off possibly finding similar success. It doesn't work for everyone, just as baclofen didn't work for me - but for some it does make a massive difference.

[tiptronic_ct]

The Truth about Naltrexone

Otter, if you cannot post your sources, then your "information" amounts to hearsay, at best.

[mario]

The Truth about Naltrexone

Otter you have gave some great advice hear about Baclofen & i am sure have helped many people here & elsewhere.
But you have also posted some imo very "controversial" posts which seem to be just for the trouble & anguish it costs to others than anything else,
There are people here who have found there way out without using baclofen, I be one of them,and you seem to have a big problem with that, Some people here are using naltrexone and are posting there progress as it is working for them and you go out of your way to post here all the negatives from a different site, Cant & dont see what you mean to achieve by doing this other than taking away the hope of other people in finding there way out of this mess.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

The Truth about Naltrexone

I will be back tomorrow to deal with this.

[Otter]

The Truth about Naltrexone

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[KatieSmiles]

The Truth about Naltrexone

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

[Otter]

The Truth about Naltrexone

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[terryk]

The Truth about Naltrexone

Otter;1172800 wrote: So I throw about misinformation about Baclofen. What, I make it up do I?

Any information I come here to share comes comes from sources which I consider to be entirely reliable.

Here's some of the more recent FALLACIES that you've posted:

7/24/11
"No other drug does the same thing because Baclofen is the only synthetic Gaba analogue"

8/16/11
"Baclofen is a man made version (analogue) of GHB so it calms the brain and you don't then feel like drinking."

8/28/11
"alcohol which is ... sugar"

Here's a good example of a statement that you make that is medically inaccurate (use of the terms "withdraw" and "withdrawal" are incorrect), and flies in contrast to the experience of many bac takers on the board (9/2/11):

"If you take three doses during the day, you are going to have a long period where you withdraw from it overnight and you will wake up with withdrawal anxiety and cravings"


On 8/2/11 you still had not grasped the concept that most of the reporting bac takers on this forum had *rejected* the notion of a body weight/dose correlation:

Otter;1156990 wrote: Is there anyone out there who has figured out if there is a weight correlation. Say you weigh 200lb or 14 to 15 stone (UK), what would you say is the "switch" and what is the maintenance dose?
You went on to (FALSELY) proclaim that baclofen is metabolized by the liver. I pointed out to you that it is not (correction: 15% *is* metabolized by the liver) see:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1157076

And here is just the smallest taste of some of the junk science you offer in your posts:

7/24/11
"Alcohol itself is not the cause of alcoholism"

"Fuzzy head can be helped with propranolol"

"Having sorted out cravings and diets, it is possible to drink moderately on Baclofen without relapsing, so long as Baclofen is not discontinued"

8/16/11

"Alcoholism is a shortage of a brain chemical called GHB or gammahydroxybutyric acid. That chemical is produced in the body to calm down your brain when stressed. If you cannot produce the chemical or there is something wrong with your brain that it does not calm down, then you just remain stressed.

Alcohol does the same thing as GHB. It calms down the brain...puts you to sleep if you take enough.

Baclofen is a man made version (analogue) of GHB so it calms the brain and you don't then feel like drinking."


Whether this is coming from another *doctor* or your own head, the information you post *quite* often falls short of reality.

Otter;1172800 wrote: I would never use your language or your approach to someone who brought up concerns about using Baclofen. This isn't about supporting the "underdog" medical treatment. Some things work, some things don't. People need to know.

*You* are doing the disservice to baclofen treatment by describing it with factually incorrect information and junk science. If you can't get the basic biochemistry right why should anyone trust you on anything else you say?

Otter;1172800 wrote:
Look in your own mirror and, by the way, if you have to resort to vulgarities it shows the level of intellect we are dealing with.

I start a thread and I get people denigrating and undermining what I said. I don't resort to filthy language.

Talk about cleaning up. You need your mouth washed with soap.

Childish Terry, childish.

The bulk of your reply was based on my use of one word. Says alot about your ability to face the real concerns of my post. I recommend you stop being such a ninny.

-tk

p.s. fuck

[KatieSmiles]

The Truth about Naltrexone

Here's another post from the Sinclair Forum...not depressing at all....you see Otter, you are only looking for the bad, when in reality there are people who have been helped by taking naltrexone.


"( hello everyone.

i am probably just one of many people who has followed along over time and has been helped by all of you on this board. thank you from the bottom of my heart. i am private by nature, and am shy about sharing things about my life -- particularly things that make me feel vulnerable. but i wanted to contribute my story in case there is someone who might have something in common with me and might be helped by knowing that.

if you are looking for help, and wondering if the sinclair method is for real, i am writing now to tell you that it absolutely has been for me.

wow, so hard to even begin. it really snuck up on me, the dependence on alcohol. i was not a partier, or a user/abuser of other substances... just someone who enjoyed a glass of wine with dinner (and who had to LEARN to like that!). over a period of a few years, a glass became two, and then more, and then i was drinking at least a bottle of wine a night, usually more. i stopped a couple of times on my own, but always had terrible cravings and eventually went back to drinking.

i never drank during the day, but my daytime functioning was impacted by hangovers, disturbed sleep, and irritability. plus, looking back, i see that all sources of relaxation and pleasure in my life grew to be increasing distant seconds to drinking, which always came in first. i really looked forward to evenings as my time to drink.

my wonderful partner never fully realized the extent of my dependency, and i did not share my concern with him as the physical fallout worsened. i had many more days of feeling bad than good.

one day i was wandering around in a bookstore, killing time. i "happened" to find myself in the self-help aisle, and began picking up books. as usual, the addiction literature did not speak to me at all. the worldview represented by 12-step-style programs clashes with who i am in so many ways that i have never felt that i could find help there. i always considered that to be a personal failing of mine -- that if only i could be more open and more of a joiner/sharer/believer, i could have worked through my problem.

and then i picked up the book about the sinclair method. i have a bit of a science background, and i quickly understood the premise being explained in the book, which made sense. but i don't know if i would have followed through and tried it without finding all of you when i googled "naltrexone."

what i discovered was a whole other recovery community, one that you don't hear a single mention of when you watch "intervention" or any of the other addiction programs on television.

i ordered naltrexone from river pharmacy, and began taking it right away on the day that i got it, december 10th, 2010. I have taken it exactly as described (50 mg per day) except that i have not kept logs of my drinking. i had strong side effects with it from the beginning, and also had the honeymoon effect that others have described: that first week, i almost didn't want to drink at all.

however, the cravings returned. i took the nal consistently. i began to notice during the first month that the physical cravings decreased, but i also noticed to my surprise that that did NOT make it easy to not have a drink -- that first AF day was still psychologically really difficult. this board helped me. i read someone's posting that explained that even though the nal is working, at some point, you do have to use some willpower. so i did that -- at about the 1 month point, i said to myself, i'm going to have an AF day every week.

and then i had two or three AF days a week, and after three months, it was not difficult to not drink at all. but i still had the occasional craving. this board helped me with with that. someone explained that if you are still having cravings, the extinction is not finished. so i deliberately chose some occasions to drink with nal, and i did that. it wasn't very enjoyable -- i found myself really wanting to get the evening over with, in fact.

that was march. by april, i was not having cravings, not taking nal, and not drinking. i also found the pleasure seeping back into all those parts of life that had been coming in second to alcohol -- taking walks, relaxing with my partner, even just watching tv.

i've read on the board a couple of times where posters miss the pleasure of drinking, the "warm glow." i have experienced that feeling of loss, too. no doubt about it, that was nice when it wasn't making me sick! and i sometimes miss the whole social experience that exists around drinking. for example, i always really liked bars, and in a vague way, i sort of thought that being cured would allow me to enjoy bars in the same way as a non-drinker. then something occurred to me: the crack house is never going to be quite as much fun if you don't smoke crack anymore.

i see people out having cocktails and i sometimes have a pang of i-wish-that-could-still-be-me. but it can't. i think of it like this: nal has allowed me to return to a version of a pre-drinker's brain, in that i don't drink myself sick every night and i am not frantic with cravings when i don't drink. BUT i drank so much over time that i changed my brain, and now i'll always be vulnerable to my heightened ability to respond to alcohol. so for me, it has to be drinking with nal, or not drinking.

and all things considered, the trade-off is so, so, so worth it. no question.

it's now 7 1/2 months after beginning the nal. i have no physical cravings at all. i don't really care to drink with nal, so i don't -- but if a social occasion comes along where i want to drink, i plan to go ahead and do so with nal. i feel well every day. my psychological missing of social drinking still pops up every once in a while, but rarely -- and only for a moment until i remember what drinking really is for me.

thanks again to you, the posters on this board. i am very grateful to you.)"

[KatieSmiles]

The Truth about Naltrexone

Otter, if you want, you can delete this thread by going into thread tools near the top of the page. You will find a drop down that will allow you to nix the thread.