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    #31
    Quick advice needed!

    heya windy. glad it's going a bit better. man, restaurant people are a most miserable lot, aren't they? i mean the owners and managers most especially. waiters can be so much fun! but shit, i remember a pile of pissy managers from my days serving table. i sure as fuck hope he'll leave you alone when you do go back on wednesday. sounds like you have some time to do some more art, huh? i'm envious. in high school i had a great art teacher. we were assigned to paint a butterfly. mine turned into a grey moth. partly as a result of that i never felt i could do anything artistic (though teach's response to my moth was fairly compassionate). come to find at twenty years old, while i was in a relationship with a very talented artist who was, unfortunately, also abusively jealous and eleven years my senior, so had the upper hand automatically, that i can actually draw and paint to save my life. it's so very rewarding to do such things! i know that zone that you refer to, when you're in the creative mode. i miss it, and often think of going back there. but time is a factor, and it's hard to find that these days. but you've got some on your hands, so maybe you'll give yourself the gift of that zone again.

    anywhoot, it's great that you have your dad. for the gaba and for other things.

    let us know how you're doing on your time off, would ya?

    and the half pint plus 22 oz of beer sounds familiar, though my drink was always more like your bf's. during the last year, anyway. one solid pint, every night. i felt hopeful on days when i didn't chase it with a beer. it's scary to be specific about our amounts when still consuming, i remember. now that it's behind me, it's much easier. good on you for doing so, and also for not striving toward abstinence with a vengance. we must know our limits, with booze AND with bac. and yes, i am sure i have read about folks who stop short at a dose less than indifference-inducing. that's ok, in my book. you can always go up if you choose to.

    i'd better get back to bed...

    abrazos y besones, windy.
    rudy xoxo

    Comment


      #32
      Quick advice needed!

      hmmmm. I am guessing, based on what you've written, that your boss thinks you are stubborn enough to go to work when you should be, according to the doctor's note you gave him, resting. I am guessing that in his gruff and asshole-ish way he is concerned for your health and well being. I could also surmise that he didn't want you falling apart on his floor in the middle of service.
      But if you want to think he's punishing you, if that makes you feel better, then so be it.

      Artwork is fine. It's fun. I pulled out pencils my mother bought me when I was seventeen last week. I draw pictures from my anatomy book. It's a blast. It didn't get me sober. Or content. In fact, the greatest artists are pretty much uniformly miserable and addicted. So are the great writers. I guess that means I won't be a great writer. But I couldn't write at all when I was drunk, so I'll take the exchange.

      As to some of the other things you mentioned, I'm pretty sure you'll find a bunch of information, and maybe even solutions, relating to other people's experience, strength and hope on other threads. Recent and distant both. I'll paste something I wrote as long ago as yesterday. I'll leave it to RudyB's thread to testify about the difference indifference has made on her work life/performance/stability/happiness. There are many, many others to refer to as well.
      Finally, Dr. L's professional life is geared around giving advice. And he's the only doctor we have
      to turn to when we have questions about baclofen and alcoholism. There are other doctors, sure. There are the best doctors in the state of Michigan, who would prescribe gobs and gobs of a medication that apparently doesn't work very well, rather than finding a solution that actually does work. In my experience, recent and distant, you can find a doctor to tell you anything you want to hear. You can also find a MWOer who will tell you anything you want to hear. I am not that MWOer, apparently. Sorry for your luck. But it is written with much caring and concern. (DG, I swear to the 12 steps that I MUST HAVE some of your patience and understanding. More on that on my thread.)


      Ne/Neva Eva;1181877 wrote: Update:
      Indifference has meant some incredible changes in my life. I will list them.

      *My husband noticed how happy I was. He took baclofen. He reached indifference.
      *We were, without question, headed for divorce. Now he's my favorite play mate and best friend and lover. I was very worried that we would have nothing in common once the booze was removed, since we've always been drunk(s) together. It has been the opposite of that. I am very, very glad I chose him, and he me, those many years ago.
      *I went back to school full time and for the first time I'm excelling at that.
      *I am also finding success in almost everything I'm attempting. It's weird. I attribute this to the fact that baclofen has completely freed me from the disease. I don't think about alcohol much when I'm not here. I also suspect that the anti-anxiety and antidepressant aspects of baclofen treatment have helped in this regard. I'm not suggesting I'm cured or inoculated. I am suggesting that this treatment is like no other.
      *I don't spend money compulsively any more.
      *I don't wake up hungover, or even groggy.
      *I also have to give a HUGE amount of credit for all of these benefits to the support system I've found (and created) here at MWO. Thank you my dear friends.
      *The information compiled here, particularly on the Consolidated Baclofen Thread, has been invaluable.
      *The reason that those two things were vital is because the side effects I encountered were brutal and life altering. It remains worth it. If your side effects are terrible, just keep taking the pills until you reach the goal and then go down a bit. You'll never regret it.

      *I can manage most aspects of my life pretty effectively. The one exception is MWO. :H

      There's more, there's always more. :H
      That should be enough. It is for me!
      Peace out! Bacina-longish-bit.
      :l



      windycitylady;1182223 wrote:

      Thanks to anyone who made it to the end of this.
      You're welcome. Despite the fact that I have now made you regret having written it. I'm truly sorry for that. This will be, I promise you, my final word on this thread.
      :l and strength.
      K

      Comment


        #33
        Quick advice needed!

        Fuck.
        I just spent an honest to god hour and a half typing a response and the computer just deleted it.
        I don't have the time right now to do it all again.

        Short version:

        Thanks, Ruby. Love ya.

        Ne, you piss me the fuck off.
        "Yet someday this will have an end
        All choices made or choice resigned,
        And in your face the literal eye
        Trace little of your history,
        Nor ever piece the tale entire
        Of villages that had to burn
        And playgrounds of the will destroyed
        Before you could be safe from time
        And gather in your brow and air
        The stillness of antiquity."

        From "At Majority" by Adrienne Rich

        Comment


          #34
          Quick advice needed!

          :H:H:H:H:H

          LOL!!!!

          Comment


            #35
            Quick advice needed!

            :H
            Right bac(k) atcha sister.
            Be well.

            Comment


              #36
              Quick advice needed!

              :H:H:H

              Where's the popcorn?

              Comment


                #37
                Quick advice needed!

                Gotta be quick here.
                I am happy for you and your husband, Ne. your life sounds amazing. I'm jealous too. You have what I want. Did you notice how much your quote sounds like the AA promises?
                I cannot take the levels of bac right now required to hit the switch. I CANNOT. I wish I could. I have it. But I can't. Not right now. I resent the implication that I am a pussy or an idiot for not taking higher doses. Your attitude that HDB is the only way is as narrow minded and counterproductive as saying AA is the ony way. I believe in the switch. And I'm happy for those who have achieved it.
                I also feel you suggest that I just hang out in my corner of the forum. I do read lots around here. Old stuff, new stuff. I am hesitant to post. Some of the more "popular threads" feel like a conversation between old friends. I am very shy, and content to just read them. As for new people starting threads. I have posted on them before. Once, my post was immediately followed by posts by senior members contradicting the advice I gave. I decided I should get my shit together before I start trying to help others.
                I have an appointment with Dr. L. Thanks. Hopefully he'll be able to help with this depression and anxiety. Waking up is like getting punched in the face.
                As for for my dad and "the best doctor in MI." I neglected to mention that the extremely high doses of wellbutrin and gabapentin are the ONLY THINGS THAT HAVE WORKED for my dad. I felt you were using a situation you know nothing about to illustrate your point. I didn't realize you were so opposed to using high doses of medications off label. Hey, wait a second....
                Why you would feel the need to shit on such a silly thing as me enjoying a drawing is beyond me. ("It didn't get me sober. Or content. In fact, the greatest artists are pretty much uniformly miserable and addicted.") I mean, it's not that hurtful. But, really?
                As for my work situation. "But if you want to think he's punishing you, if that makes you feel better, then so be it." When the chef's wife went into labor, he was made to wait until after the dinner rush to go be with her. After that, he was given 2 days off to be with his wife and new daughter. It was the most amount of time he's been given off in 19 years. I don't expect you to know such things. But your immediate asssumption that I'm a whiny masochist was not fair.
                I guess I just don't understand where all of this is coming from. I know you will say that you're trying to help. But the fact that you continually acknowledge that you're being hurtful ("You're welcome. Despite the fact that I have now made you regret having written it") seems to suggest otherwise. Are you just giving it to me straight, Ne? Am I really that off-track? Or do you miss chaos now in your sober life?
                I'm really not that angry, and I don't want to be hurtful or insulting myself. I just wish you would be more aware of your tone. I am genuinely very happy for your success. I'm glad you have it figured out. I don't. Not yet. But I'm trying.
                "Yet someday this will have an end
                All choices made or choice resigned,
                And in your face the literal eye
                Trace little of your history,
                Nor ever piece the tale entire
                Of villages that had to burn
                And playgrounds of the will destroyed
                Before you could be safe from time
                And gather in your brow and air
                The stillness of antiquity."

                From "At Majority" by Adrienne Rich

                Comment


                  #38
                  Quick advice needed!

                  You can have it too. That's why I wrote it.

                  It is absolutely reasonable to go down, manage the panic attacks, and marshall your resources. I did. Many times. I still got to indifference. I know how harrowing the SEs can be. I feel really badly, profoundly, that I forgot what it was like to be where you were. I apologize. It was clear that this was coming. It's the title of the thread that gives it away. It's why I offered you my phone number. Talking with people who had been there really helped me. (Many people, in my case. People are remarkably generous with their time and good will around here.)

                  HDB is not the only way. It is the only medication that offers what I have. It is a ground breaking, life-altering, completely different approach to recovery. It's not the only approach to recovery. (Last night, on a long walk as the sun went down, Ed said he felt like he was in a Cinderella story. That someone gave him magic and transformed his life, without any effort on his part.) If someone is on the meds threads, taking HDB, and about to give up, I feel pretty strongly about putting it out there what this medication has meant in terms of my life. If one is not, for instance, taking HDB, on the meds threads, or is looking for other answers in any way, I try to guide the person toward that end. (I'm very, very tired of people accusing me of being HDB or nothing. But that, as they say in AA, is not about me. Of that I'm completely clear.) (And to be honest, now I simply don't read the other threads/inquiries. No time. I hope they find help.)

                  When you (and others) hesitate to post I would ask that you think about how it makes you feel when someone posts on a thread you've started. Or responds to something you've written, or conversely, doesn't respond. Ouch.

                  I'm glad you have an appointment with Dr. L. He'll help. People who have a doctor actively involved don't suffer with this stuff. (A HUGE source of frustration. Perhaps this place is actually counterproductive? Or perhaps they just allay the fears and we perpetuate them because of a lack of understanding.)

                  I shouldn't have brought your dad into it. That was irrelevant and snarky. Sorry.

                  I don't think you're a masochist or a wimp. I think that once you are well your frame of reference about why people say and do the things they say and do will change dramatically. Reference RudyB and the changes in attitude she's seen in several of her students this year. What's the common denominator?

                  I disparaged the art because it's something people prescribe in rehabs to keep us busy. I apologize. That said, managing the panic attacks is not going to happen with a quiet activity alone in a room. Exercise. Nutrition. Meditation/support/prayer. Medications to manage the brain chemicals are a short route to overcoming that particular SE.

                  If you were thinking about quitting you were that off track. However, my tone and my anger were based on frustration that had less to do with you than many other things. I feel badly for that. I apologize. (Glad it was fodder for entertainment, though. )

                  I do not miss chaos. In fact I revel in the simplicity and the (relative) serenity life offers now. It is still a bit surreal. The one place, the single biggest source of contention in my life is MWO. Ed has pointed this out many times. The rewards have been great, but I'm relieved to be stepping away for a while. (Bet you wish it was two days ago! Me, too.)

                  You'll figure it out. You're well on your way. Just don't give up.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Quick advice needed!

                    I apologize, Ne. I haven't been myself lately. Truth is, you've always been there for me (along with Ruby, hey Ruby!) And the advice you've given me is spot on 98% of the time. I'm sorry.
                    "Yet someday this will have an end
                    All choices made or choice resigned,
                    And in your face the literal eye
                    Trace little of your history,
                    Nor ever piece the tale entire
                    Of villages that had to burn
                    And playgrounds of the will destroyed
                    Before you could be safe from time
                    And gather in your brow and air
                    The stillness of antiquity."

                    From "At Majority" by Adrienne Rich

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Quick advice needed!

                      a big fat PHEW from me over here in rubyworld. god, i was worried you two were gonna part ways from mwo over that one! glad it ain't so. glad it's niceness again. fuckin phew!!! we NEED niceness in this place. good fuckin riddance to the nasties, please!

                      windy, i'll be here for you, you can bet on that. i've got your back!

                      abrazones!
                      ruby

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Quick advice needed!

                        Hey there Windy. Just read through your thread and found your posts very enjoyable and wanted to say hi. :hello:
                        When I read your first post, I thought, "Wow, that's pretty much how I felt today!" I've been dealing with black hole depression for the past few days and have felt very anxious at work today and yesterday. Yesterday I pushed through it and felt better eventually, and today I took xanax (which helped immensely). I've been titrating back up on baclofen for the past 2 weeks (I generally hang out anywhere between 80 and 120mgs), and I just went up to 160 yesterday. What happens to me once I get into this range is that I start internalizing outside negativity, which makes everything feel very difficult.
                        I'm glad that everyone convinced you that the way you've been feeling isn't because of the baclofen. I don't think my depression is because of baclofen. I've dealt with it at different levels and for different periods of time for as long as I can remember. I'm going to add in 5-HTP (and now I guess B6) and hopefully that will help.
                        But for me, HDB absolutely causes anxiety. I've got the xanax script to deal with it when it gets bad, and hopefully I'll reach indifference again soon and can titrate back down to a more comfortable level. I just wanted to say that I understand and I'm sorry you're going through a difficult time. :l
                        Even though he's still drinking, it sounds like you've got a gem of a bf who provides you with a lot of great support. The best thing I ever had my ex do for me when I was titrating up on bac for the first time a year ago was to not talk to me about AL! He doesn't understand addiction and when he tried to help (just don't drink, RIGHT!), it just made it harder for me. I needed to be able to do things my own my way without someone bothering me.
                        I hope you're feeling better after your time off and have done some things to relax and make yourself feel good. Your talking about your drawing is giving me the itch to do something creative! Maybe that will help me get out of the funk that I have been in, though it's been considerably better today and yesterday (probably because I had work to focus on - the weekend was tough).
                        Sorry for the long-winded hello, but sometimes once I start typing, I just can't stop! :H
                        Better Living Through Chemistry

                        Switched at 180mgs of Baclofen on 1/31/11, and again on 10/8/11 at 200mgs.

                        Could've been a swan on a glassy lake, could've been a gull in a clipper's wake. Could've been a ladybug on a windchime, but she was born a dragonfly.
                        ~Clutch

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Quick advice needed!

                          Thanks guys. Again, I'm sorry for having a temper tantrum. I've just been shut in at home, a ball of nerves, and went a little crazy.
                          Ruby! After being with a Mexican boyfriend for 5 years, my Spanish was pretty good. In the last 2 years, I've been steadily forgetting it. I go to think of the simplest word and my brain comes up with a French word (took 4 years of French in high school). EXCEPT when I'm really angry. Then I start spewing these complete, coherent, borderline poetic Spanish sentences. What do you think that's about? Glad to hear like it sounds that the school year is off to a great start for you! Have you ever heard the song "Tardes Negras"? Listened to it all through my break up. Still makes me teary. Thanks for hanging out and always being such a sweetheart.
                          Isolde, thanks for reading through all that, and your thoughtful comments! I know you've been around here a while, but did you used to hang out on the holistic healing forum a lot back in the day? So is the 80 to 120 mg your post switch maintenance dose? Are you going up because of increased cravings? Good to hear you experience the anxiety too. (Well, not good for you, you know what I mean) These last few days have been torture. Just feeling paralyzed in this stupid apartment watching Law and Order marathons. I've been staring at the bottle of xanax, but I don't have much, and I'm trying to save it for when "I really need it" whatever that means. I went up on the gabapentin yesterday and again today, and I'm actually feeling better. I should be freaking out about returning to work tomorrow, but I'm doing ok. Tomorrow morning may be a different story, we'll see.
                          Do you feel more anxiety at work, or when you have time off? Oh, and according to Beatle, we're supposed to take tyrptophan and not 5htp, and I'm inclined to believe her. I think I actually did a bunch of research years ago and reached the same conclusion, but I don't remember the specifics. I've been taking trytophan for maybe a week or two now. When I worked at a vitamin shop it was still illegal. But my creepy body building boss said she got around it by having it prescribed for her dog. Pretty fiendish.
                          Anyway, perfect bf except for his alcoholism just got home with frozen crab cakes and bacon wrapped steaks! I've been determined to make myself eat a ridiculous amount today. Already had McDonald's.
                          Anyhow, thanks guys. Sorry to have done exactly what I accused Ne of, creating chaos.
                          "Yet someday this will have an end
                          All choices made or choice resigned,
                          And in your face the literal eye
                          Trace little of your history,
                          Nor ever piece the tale entire
                          Of villages that had to burn
                          And playgrounds of the will destroyed
                          Before you could be safe from time
                          And gather in your brow and air
                          The stillness of antiquity."

                          From "At Majority" by Adrienne Rich

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Quick advice needed!

                            oh god, windy! be more kind to yourself! creating chaos? huh?! you're beautiful and you need to know that. your posts are delightful and you're doing great work. so glad to read about the food. that's one of my greatest tools in my victories over the beast. works nicely on the brain and bod, don't it? funny that, the beautiful design of nature.

                            'tardes negras', huh? i'll seek it out. i'm always looking for new good music, and i get lots of new tunes from my native speakers who, i like to think, get a few from me. they laugh at the name of my boyfriend, dani macaco (which, btw, is a kind of monkey, come to find out). (btw, he, i realize, is like the spanish michael franti. his musical genius is definitely as profound, and his mix of genres is even way more dynamic.) (...though i don't think his name is really macaco. if anyone does research on this important matter, let me know what you find out. i've gotta get back to bed, and this will have to wait till i can take a gander back over to their website.)

                            speaking of names, i think i mentioned elsewhere that my cousin who was at first raised in bolivia and mexico and adopted by my mom's sis, once informed me that my name in spanish was 'caca'. i believed her and was very sad, though somewhere in me i knew she was just being mean.

                            the same thing happens to me, windy, that thing about raging poetic in spanish! i, too, took years of french in high school, and sometimes in my calmer moments like when teaching i find those lovely silent vowels flowing forth. but when i'm mad, look out! i channel my spanish moor ancestors -all three of them- and the floodgates let fly a torrent. once upon a time i had a thug of a boyfriend from flatbush, brooklyn (a place from which you're lucky you're not), who hated spanish cause his honduran mother used it to yell at him in it in her rages at his graceless boy ways. this one called himself vamp (short for vampire), which name he insisted was on his birth certificate. i peeked at his license once, and it said he was a certain roland. once he stole my bike, having said he'd be right back, only to show up by phone hours later, saying he had looked for me but i had gone. but i digress...

                            take a listen to ricki martin and chambao's exquisite live rendition of 'tu recuerdo' ('your memory'). that'll make you teary! i listened to it all winter, during my self-inflicted torture over my not-gay then not-ex bf.

                            glad yours got home with delicious semi-junky treats. bon apetit! buen provecho! que disfruten!

                            abrazones, linda.
                            xo rudy nut

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Quick advice needed!

                              windycitylady;1183638 wrote: I apologize, Ne. I haven't been myself lately. Truth is, you've always been there for me (along with Ruby, hey Ruby!) And the advice you've given me is spot on 98% of the time. I'm sorry.
                              Aw, geez, sister. You mean I wasn't a 100%?
                              Look, I was the bad egg in this and I am very, very sorry. You did nothing wrong. My responses to you were not kind, nor were they helpful. I'm very glad you didn't leave.
                              You will find what you need here, and you will get there. (One of the many things I missed out on was reminding you is that it's often more a matter of taking the time, rather than gobbling the medicines. Terryk's post is resounding proof of that!)



                              windycitylady;1183816 wrote:

                              Anyhow, thanks guys. Sorry to have done exactly what I accused Ne of, creating chaos.
                              Not only did you not create chaos, you didn't foment any of the stuff going on on the other threads. Leave that to...the old timers.
                              Keep bringing it back here, Windy. This is exactly the place and that was exactly the stuff that I brought here and was able to work through.

                              I hope it's a good day back at work. I think it will be. :l

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Quick advice needed!

                                Thanks guys! Ruby, I'm embarassed to say that I don't know who Dani Macaco or Micheal Franti are. I was more exposed to the Reggatone type stuff, which I still have a soft spot for. Oh, and "Ahora Quien" by Marc Anthony (who kinda looks like a less attractive version of my ex). Wish I had the ability to download music. Sigh. When my sister was briefly a highschool Spanish teacher, she had a partyt for the students at the end of the year and gave them all CDs of Spanish language music she burned. I thought that was really sweet. If you're ever bored, check out the lyrics to "Dile a Ella" by Don Omar. There's some beautiful poetic phrases I can pick out, but the real story I can't quite figure out. Someone's in prison, I think a friend takes up with his girl, I don't know. I've had my share of bizarre exes. More than my share, actually. But I was thinking yesterday of the last dude I dated before coming to IL. He was absolutely gorgeous, owned his own landscaping company, and was the biggest weed dealer in town. And I'm pretty sure he was autistic. It would take him a full minute to construct a three word sentence, and he had no grasp of normal social behavior. He wasn't stupid. He was a brilliant landscaper and dealer. And he eventually dumped me. Really awkwardly, but dumped me. Not a thing to brag about being dumped by an autistic.
                                Thanks, Ne. Yeah, I know the shit that goes on in other threads is a million times more brutal. But I just hate that stuff so much, and didn't want to contribute to that type of atmosphere.
                                Well. As I mentioned, I went up significantly on the gabapentin (thanks, Bruun!). And, seriously guys, I feel GREAT today! No nerves, no depression. Actually looking forward to work! Ready to get out there and make some money! I can't believe the solution was right in front of me the whole time. I was taking a relatively low dosage for depression/anxiety. I may drop a little, don't wanna be manic, but right now I'm embracing it. I like coming out of such a dark place and being able to say "ok, see? That wasn't all in my head. That was real. I was suffering."
                                So plan is to start getting up earlier, exercising, and stop being such a selfish shit and post on other people's threads. I do read them, but I need to offer back the support the all of you have been giving me.
                                Thanks guys!
                                "Yet someday this will have an end
                                All choices made or choice resigned,
                                And in your face the literal eye
                                Trace little of your history,
                                Nor ever piece the tale entire
                                Of villages that had to burn
                                And playgrounds of the will destroyed
                                Before you could be safe from time
                                And gather in your brow and air
                                The stillness of antiquity."

                                From "At Majority" by Adrienne Rich

                                Comment

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