Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

[RedThread12]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

Hey, Dose-O: At the risk of being repetitive, which I am, actually, over and over, if you're craving sugar, head FULL ON to L-Glutamine. Here are a couple of MWO threads to read:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f6...ble-57651.html
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f6...ine-37269.html

And also, repeating myself endlessly, take a LOT. But good quality powdered L-Glute. Most of them dose (ahahaha) at around 4500-5000 mg/teaspoon. I take a heaping TABLESPOONFUL twice a day. That's at least 20 grams, and probably more. Those are the levels that start making a noticeable difference, in my experience (I guess that would be IME?).

Blood sugar goes rock-steady. Hunger for everything, and especially carbs, goes way down, as well, IME. Other really good things happened for me when I started doing lots of brain-healing supplements, but the L-Glute and All-One were the original cornerstones, and they still stand. Good luck!!

[Dosage0]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

Ne: always read what you write!

Space: Will keep doin it, thanks.

Red: I'll look into it. What brand of powder do you get? From where? Available in CA? 20 grams seems like a huge amount? Thanks for the info

[RedThread12]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

I order from Discount Vitamins, Supplements, Health Foods, Whole Foods and Sports Nutrition online | Vitacost. The 2.2 lb. tub :H It lasts a little while!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Alright. I am so confounded by my own lack of success when it comes to avoiding MnMs that I cannot explain it. In fact, I shared with my therapist that I'm almost glad for the obsession because it reminds me a bit of how I used to feel about booze. I will drive miles out of my way to get a 'good' candybar. And when I stop, I'll buy several so I "don't have to drive out of my way" the next time. And then I'll eat them all before I get home. I hide the wrappers. I swear to my husband that we are done with sugar. That it must get out of the house.
Then I'll eat a pint of ice cream. And I don't share. I bogart the ice cream!!!

I am officially on the L-glut bus.

So. Back to you Dose! how did you overcome the anxiety, etc?
I'm so glad/relieved things have settled down. But tell us what worked, so it's all official and I can say, "Hey, look! This guy did something about that!" Or you can when the time comes...

:l

[Dosage0]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

Ne/Neva Eva;1294569 wrote: Alright. I am so confounded by my own lack of success when it comes to avoiding MnMs that I cannot explain it. In fact, I shared with my therapist that I'm almost glad for the obsession because it reminds me a bit of how I used to feel about booze. I will drive miles out of my way to get a 'good' candybar. And when I stop, I'll buy several so I "don't have to drive out of my way" the next time. And then I'll eat them all before I get home. I hide the wrappers. I swear to my husband that we are done with sugar. That it must get out of the house.
Then I'll eat a pint of ice cream. And I don't share. I bogart the ice cream!!!

I am officially on the L-glut bus.

So. Back to you Dose! how did you overcome the anxiety, etc?
I'm so glad/relieved things have settled down. But tell us what worked, so it's all official and I can say, "Hey, look! This guy did something about that!" Or you can when the time comes...

:l

Ne - I think just staying at one level for a time helped settle my body down a bit. I've started stretching my dose out further because I noticed I felt best after my third dose. It seemed like my body was going through the daily bac, sleeping, then taking time to get back up to the level I need -- if that makes any sense.

What I have done is take my normal 4 doses and spread it out further than 4 hours apart. On my old regime -- If I take my first dose at 9am, my second at 1pm, then 5pm, then 9pm again, I am jamming my doses in a 12 hour period then going 12 hours before I take another round. I think my body was having a hard time staying on keel.

I was trying to keep my dosing perfectly spaced apart and I have since tried to extend my time.

I now go about every 4 1/2 to 5 hours. If I take my first dose at 8am, my second at 1pm, my third at 5:30pm and my last at 10pm, I am spacing my meds out a bit better. Also I am going further and further without drinking and I think that is helping my mood :H.

I may play with taking 3 doses and not worry so much about having them spaced perfectly. IE: Take one dose when I wake up, one mid day sometime, and one 2 hours before I sleep. The only problem I have with that is I tend to stay awake for a while after I take my last dose and I also don't like taking 100mg's at a time. If I dose 3x I would take 100-80-100. At 4x its manageable at 70-70-70-70 -- at least it seems it is.

Let me know if you have any input...

As of right now my only side effects are a small bit of anxiety and feeling tired a lot (that old zombie face) but it seems to get better as I stick with the same dose.

Dose

[Grizzy]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

That's a really great idea Dose, spacing out the doses. I'm at 300, down from 340, planning to go down to 280 myself and hold there for a while. I've been taking it in 3 doses 7am, 1pm, 7pm, and I can say from personal experience that taking even as much as 120 in the morning didn't seem to affect me too badly, but I think spacing out the doses might keep my body more "in keel" as you said.

I wonder if maybe that would reduce my sleep disturbances? I have the (I think) typical baclofen sleep pattern of getting SUPER sleepy, like nodding off, then falling asleep for like 5 hours and waking up really early feeling totally awake. Do you find spacing the doses has helped your sleep cycle?

[Grizzy]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

So glad I started reading your thread. I too see Dr. L, although I'm in Chicago so I actually get to meet with him from time to time. I've been pushing around in the 300s for the past few weeks and really started freaking myself out, looking at webmd stuff online, feeling like I'm alone in some dangerous experiment. It's nice to see someone else is going through the same stuff. Totally relate to all your side effects, etc. I too want to titrate down to 280, and I love the idea of splitting the doses in to more, smaller chunks. I've been doing 120-80-120, but I crash out at like 10pm and wake up at 3am wide awake. Does spacing the doses out help with your sleep?

So comforting to see that you experienced some increased anxiety at a higher dose as well. I've been going through the same thing and it seems so counter intuitive. Relating to so much of what I'm reading in everyone's posts. Just really glad I'm not alone in this. Thanks.

[Dosage0]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

Grizzy;1299055 wrote: So glad I started reading your thread. I too see Dr. L, although I'm in Chicago so I actually get to meet with him from time to time. I've been pushing around in the 300s for the past few weeks and really started freaking myself out, looking at webmd stuff online, feeling like I'm alone in some dangerous experiment. It's nice to see someone else is going through the same stuff. Totally relate to all your side effects, etc. I too want to titrate down to 280, and I love the idea of splitting the doses in to more, smaller chunks. I've been doing 120-80-120, but I crash out at like 10pm and wake up at 3am wide awake. Does spacing the doses out help with your sleep?

So comforting to see that you experienced some increased anxiety at a higher dose as well. I've been going through the same thing and it seems so counter intuitive. Relating to so much of what I'm reading in everyone's posts. Just really glad I'm not alone in this. Thanks.

Hey Grizz,

Welcome above 300mg! :H I don't recommend it for those that don't need it. I might not have either if I had stayed at around 300 for a longer period of time, but I felt at the time that going up was going to be better (still do!). I topped out at about 380mg. I quickly found out that taking 120 mgs at once was very hard on my mind. I also couldn't sleep at all until 6 hours after my last dose... meaning I would take my last at about 9pm and sleep at about 3am. If you can fall asleep while on that much Baclofen, hats off to you. I would usually sleep 6 hours or so, sometimes a little longer -- but I don't recall sleeping more than 8. Some days I would take my first dose when I woke up and then go back to sleep immediately. *EDIT* What does Dr. L say about you being over 300? His advice to me was to stick at that level, but I decided to come back down a bit. At 280 I feel like going down a bit more would be helpful but I am happy being here for the time being. I feel good after the first dose, but I get very tired and out of it after the second. I feel best after the third dose and a quick nap. I spread mine out further because under/at 4 at a time I found I slept better going into night time. For a certain amount of time I was spreading my dose into 2 every 2 hours. I thought that the half life was around 2-4 hours so keeping a steady dose would make sense.

Do you smoke at all? Curious about how much nicotine you are using.

At higher levels I was having a lot of auditory hallucinations and anxiety attacks (short panic type attacks but lots of long term calmness if that makes any sense). I also found that I lost my desire to drink here. I would go longer and longer without drinking and I think bleep made a good point that I needed to make an effort to stop on my own. After a few days I found it easier and easier and my mood lifted.

I have heard of one person going to 510, but I don't recall any long post detailing it. I think it was a wife posting about her husband going that high. I talked to Dr. L and he said the highest Dr. A went was 390? You might want to confirm with him. I think he takes a lot of phone calls so our calls were usually brief to clear the line.

I suggest you start your own post and call it something along the lines of above 300 mgs and document how you are doing so others can see. I wouldn't sweat people responding to you negatively and just post how it goes -- good or bad. Some told me to go down and watch myself out of concern. Either way I think posting helps because you can get feedback from people like you who might chime in.

Keep it up and learn to try and keep yourself calm. Are you working at these levels? I couldn't imagine trying.

Dose

[Grizzy]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

My panic attacks were exactly as you described: short bursts of purely physical, gripping panic. Sometimes I would feel a squirmy sense of needing space, or a needing to exercise or just run my head off that told me I was heading for one. A .25 Xanax or two is all I need to sort it out and I return to a calm, lucid state. That was every day or twice a day for me for a while when I was up at 340 (which only lasted a couple days) but I've tapering off that while I go down.

Non smoker, so no nicotine for me. Definitely prone to sugary candy binges these days though And I occasionally have the urge to smoke as I used to smoke quite a bit, but that's pretty normal.

And yep I work a 9 to 5 on that I'm extremely lucky to work from home though, so if I get overwhelmed with tiredness I can take a nap. That definitely happened almost everyday when I was titrating up but since I've hit "the switch" I've gotten on the whole less anxious, more focused, exercising more, etc. so that's falling away. Yesterday I got up at about 4am started working at 6am and worked steadily til about 4pm with an hour break. Took 120-80-100 at 7a-1p-7p. Definitely had some tired patches and my mind wanders, but my job is pretty boring so that might not be the baclofen . Anyway I think I will take your advice and start my own thread, should be a good way to get out of my own head a little bit. Hope I answered all your questions.

[Dosage0]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

Sorry I haven't been updating this as often as I should. I stuck with my 280 4 times a day and noticed that, while I wasnt drinking, I was having a lot of anxiety. I called Dr. L and he suggested going to 3x a day and going up to 300 mg.

It has been two weeks? since I took a drink of anything and more than a month since I took any amount of alcohol that would be considered a lot. I drank 6 beers once about 3 weeks ago and a funny thing happened... I got sick. I threw up from drinking. In all my years of drinking I RARELY EVER get sick. I mean I can probably count on one hand the number of times I got sick from drinking -- it just doesn't happen because my body loves the stuff.

So I did that... in 20mgs I took 5 - 5 - 5 and my body seemed to even out a bit except I CANNOT sleep. Dr. L told me that most sleep medications interact with baclofen so I should just use xanax. The problem for me is that xanax doesn't work. I am not panicked, I am mentally and physically unable to sleep for 6 hours after a huge dose of baclofen.

So now I am here at 300 and I have a decision to make. There are times on 300 where throughout at least half the day I am calm and feeling AWESOME without any anxiety and no normal everyday thought loops that used to plague me (some part of me remembers this being the theory of why I drink?). Unfortunately there are a lot of days where I feel waves of anxiety and I cannot concentrate for shit. My boss is telling me things and I am saying "mmm-hmm" because I cannot possibly comprehend what he is saying.

Dr. L says go up.. most everyone else says go down. I do know that I cannot sleep at this level. I was dead fuckin tired last night after not sleeping well the night before and I was up until 5am after my last dose. I slept two hours and went to work.

Baclofen works without a doubt. I am amazed at how well it works... but there are no clear directions that come with it!

I'll start dropping tomorrow and start reporting my findings. I have nothing but good things to say when it comes to Dr.L and baclofen, but I cannot imagine staying at this level.

The problem now is how do I drop? At 5-5-5 I cannot sleep. At 5-4-5 I cannot sleep. I think the logical solution is to go 4-4-4 but that is a drop of 60mgs. I cannot see taking 5 at night and trying to sleep with any quality. Today I took 5-5 and then 2 1/2 then 2 1/2 later keeping my 300mgs. Hopefully this way I can sleep a bit.

Anyone with suggestions? 60 mgs in one drop seems like a lot.. hah... I am working in IT and following difficult server software is tough!

Also, I know my thoughts may steer some clear of baclofen, but I must stress that it does work -- amazingly well -- I just don't know how this part will go.

Dose

[penelope67]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

what about trying the seroquel 25mg for sleeping? I think I sent you that other person's post about how it worked for them, if i didn't i can send it I just have to look for it...I am not doing the baclofen protocol right now, I just take 40 mg a day until I finish dealing with a big life mess so I can't advise you on anything...let me ask Timber Tim, he'll know. btw I commend you on your success thus far

[spacebebe01]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

I take serequel for bipolar/treatment resistant depression, it is actually an anpsychotic used in high doses so I think it could be a pretty heavy duty med with the posibility of messing with the brain if all you want it for is sleeping, yes it does knock me out for say seven hours but I then find the next day I have a strange mixture of being knackered and not wanting to move along with a kind of wiredness and I can no longer sleep of a day so I cant even have a nap anymore which is crap I used to love having a nap. Next time I see my psychiatrist I am going to discuss more the effects of serequel and try to find out more about it.

I havent jumped in the here before because I dont know anything about HDB but have you tried 5 - 5 - 4 then you are taking less in your last dose. dropping down to 4-4-4 seems like a massive drop to me

[penelope67]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

25mg of seroquel is used off label by psychiatrists for sleep, this is the not the high doses you refer to, a high dose Bac user (not me) posted that seroquel 25mg worked for his/her Bac induced insomnia and and i am just reiterating that. My sister who is also apsychiatrist uses low doses of seroquel for people with PTSD who have sleep problems

this is the MWO post i refer to, again not mine:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ory-53187.html

[TimberTim]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

Dose,

Let me get this staight. You're taking 100mg, 3 time a day? No wonder you can't sleep. I think if I took that much my head would explode. At least for me, that is way too much at one time and bordering on OD territory. But, everyone is different.

I have been at 300mg, and above, and it is misserable. Can't sleep, can't remember anything. My wife laughs at me because I'm walking around stoned all the time. But, it does work with fending off the alcohol cravings.

When I was at that level (switched at 300mg/day), I was taking no more that 50mg at a time. And then it was at about every 3-4 hours. Most often, I was taking 40mg.
Certainly not 100mg. So you may try a lower dosage, more often during the day.

Also, I have dropped 60mg in a day without too much problem. I might be a little extra sleepy for a day, but then things smooth out. If you have been yo-yoing like I have, going up and down doesn't seem to have alot of impact. For instance, during the week when I am working, I pretty much stay at 160mg. On weekends when I have a stronger urge to drink, I can go up to 200-220mg. Then on Monday, back to 160mg. Piece of cake, for me.

In summary, try to take a lower dose like 50mg, six time a day, and see how that feels.
Best wishes,

[Dosage0]

Shotgun Opera Lock and Load

TimberTim;1310972 wrote: Dose,

Let me get this staight. You're taking 100mg, 3 time a day? No wonder you can't sleep. I think if I took that much my head would explode. At least for me, that is way too much at one time and bordering on OD territory. But, everyone is different.

I have been at 300mg, and above, and it is misserable. Can't sleep, can't remember anything. My wife laughs at me because I'm walking around stoned all the time. But, it does work with fending off the alcohol cravings.

When I was at that level (switched at 300mg/day), I was taking no more that 50mg at a time. And then it was at about every 3-4 hours. Most often, I was taking 40mg.
Certainly not 100mg. So you may try a lower dosage, more often during the day.

Also, I have dropped 60mg in a day without too much problem. I might be a little extra sleepy for a day, but then things smooth out. If you have been yo-yoing like I have, going up and down doesn't seem to have alot of impact. For instance, during the week when I am working, I pretty much stay at 160mg. On weekends when I have a stronger urge to drink, I can go up to 200-220mg. Then on Monday, back to 160mg. Piece of cake, for me.

In summary, try to take a lower dose like 50mg, six time a day, and see how that feels.
Best wishes,

Thanks Tim for the advice... how quickly did you go down from 300?