A plea to sober people

[Crunchy]

A plea to sober people

Lo0p;1185728 wrote: https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...nds-42543.html

That is truly amazing! 40 days? That should be permanent around here somewhere. Thanks so much for sharing it. This was a really wonderful way to start the day.

[Crunchy]

A plea to sober people

Thanks, Greg. I might try anything but not cannabis due to mandatory drug tests for work. I worry that if I lose my job, I might have to take a lie detector test to get another job. I saw one sheet that had the questions one employer would ask. One was "How often in the last five years did you take a medication not prescribed for you?" Can't win for losing sometimes.

I really hope the new plan works for you.

[Crunchy]

A plea to sober people

Cool UK. The idea of making holiday time sounds like a good one.

[Otter]

A plea to sober people

Hi Crunchy

Just wishing you the best in your recovery. Baclofen does work. It is a very individual thing.

I am sober, never was alcoholic and do take Baclofen, if you can figure that out.

I was so concerned about the mood on this forum that I reinstated the Forum on Home - Baclofen UK which I had deactivated a long time ago. The Forum will be solely for discussion of Baclofen and related topics rather than a mixed bag of medicines. I will try to moderate it to avoid what is going on here of late. Perhaps if there is a bit of competition, it will make people think about the kind of behaviour going on here and give an outlet for those who want to get away from here but still want to post.

And...everyone is welcome regardless of anyone's views of their credentials etc. I am interested in ideas which help people, not whether someone has a drunk driving conviction from five years ago.

Best wishes.

[Crunchy]

A plea to sober people

Reggie;1185922 wrote: Crunchy my story....like now..... I forget a bit too..looking forward to yours ..i am of the take ya time...... school and get to the end eventually..wishing you the best of a positive world!!!

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...tch-47810.html
Wow. What a story

Well that?s it?. switch enlightenment?boring hey.

LOL. Not boring at all. A lot to think about. Thanks so much. I am going to revisit that post a lot I think.

[RedThread12]

A plea to sober people

I started taking baclofen in Oct. '09. Wow, almost 3 years. Hard to believe. And hard to remember that at that time I was drinking all day, every day, couldn't work, and couldn't get sober using all the resources I had 3 years before (AA, counseling, anti-depressants, etc.)

Baclofen started working for me from day one. Call me lucky - I am. I still drink wine sometimes, but I've never been drunk since day 1. I've gone extended periods without alcohol when it seemed appropriate, including a 5-week meditation course and a week-long out-patient treatment program that required me to be alcohol free for a month before entering. I don't know if you would call me "sober," but I can tell you with complete honesty that I live a life free from affliction from alcohol in any way.

I have experimented with my baclofen dosage over all this time. I've gone up and I've gone down, and once I seriously over-dosed doing a little self-experimentation. What works for me is to take 80 mg/day when life is pretty smooth, and go up to 120 or 160 mg/day when it's intense . . . as it is now.

I've read pretty much everything posted about baclofen for 3 years. It's is SO worthwhile to go back through the threads and read all the stories and experiences. Baclofen saved me from dying drunk, reading the posts saved me thousands of dollars by giving me the information I needed to understand that going to the ER was not a good choice when I overdosed. The wealth of information in this site is mind-blowing, but it takes some time and commitment to dig some of it out.

The recent "kerfluffle" is hear-breaking to me. Yet there are other threads, as well, that contain life-saving information that got closed down by similar stuff to what I see (and it's only my opinion, not a statement of fact) as fairly petty self-righteousness. I've been here 3 years. I have no impetus to participate in things like that because, honestly, which of us is to say what might work to come out of this dreadful disease.

Historically, lots of people have gotten into a lot of trouble because they had something to say that was outside the current paradigm of thought. Gallileo and what revolves around what in the universe comes to mind. So I doubt that trend - to take offense, justify one's own position, and blame someone for our discomfort - is going to end here on MWO!

There are lots of threads in the history of the meds section that reveal that quite a few people have gotten sober with baclofen - so sober, and with their lives so functional, that they don't come back here. It's worth a look-through to see some of those stories and know that people are living "normal" lives without the oppression of alcohol due to baclofen - and whatever else they find that works for them.

Wishing you all the best as you find your own way out, Crunchy. It IS possible. I'm with Otter. Baclofen certainly worked for me. Other things work for other people. Hang in there. Don't quit.

[Greg]

A plea to sober people

I just want to say thanks for the well wishes earlier in this thread, and I'll keep you all posted. At the moment I am finding that just Antabuse and low-dose baclofen is a pretty miserable experience, since the damned cravings to drink are still there.

I almost had a work incident due to drug testing too. Luckily a colleague told me the testers were on site, and I was able to run around the outside of the site and get to the carpark so I could drive home. My job was as an equipment repair contractor, and I was allowed to come and go as long as I kept on top of the work. I never smoked pot before or at work, only at night, but I was still worried because it would have shown up if I was selected for a test!

[Daya]

A plea to sober people

Crunchy

I don't know anything about the medication you are asking about, but I am posting becuse:

• I am sober
• I have no idea of the fighting that other people have mentioned
• I love your nameI love your pictureI am really grateful for the lovely words you psoted to meAnd I want you to be happy

Crunchy;1185680 wrote: I'm sorry. I did see it and forgot it, blame baclofen, and responded to the post right underneath it.

It's Excellent that you are sober now. Thanks for recounting your struggle with baclofen. I am finding the struggle immensely difficult too.

I do appreciate your concern. I'm sorry that I worried you.

[Dave_]

A plea to sober people

Hey Crunchy,

I stopped drinking in Jan this year. I was on 30mg of bac once I got released from rehab as recommended by my doc. I found this site some months after and began reading posts. I had one weekend where I started drinking again because, well, I felt like it. I stopped after two days.

I approached my doctor and asked if he would allow me to try this drug at high doses more out of interest than anything else. I had already stopped drinking and I no longer felt that booze controlled my life but more than anything I was interested if I could get to a point that alcohol could be a forgotten desire so to speak.

For the last few months I have been going up in increments of 20 mgs a week. I am currently at 280 mgs a day. I fall asleep a lot quicker at night and I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night but I function quite well for the most part and I manage to work still 60 - 80 hours a week with not a lot of overall impact on my day.

Is it or will it ever be the miracle save all drug that it is often portrayed to be on here?
Well not for me, if I chose to I could still quite easily tuck into a bottle of Jack and blow a couple of days away and I don't think high doses of bac at this stage have done anything to change that mind set. I am determined to continue my program of increasing my dosage under medical supervision just to see what all the fuss is about but I won't go on forever.

I have no desire to enter into any argument about whether it is a god send or not other than to say it has done little for me yet but I still keep an open mind and continue to experiment for my own curiosity if nothing else.

I do not in any way regret my days at the bottom of the bottle. I have found something so powerful in my days since. I do not use words like recovery, alcoholism, disease or any of the other terms often used to describe people who allow alcohol to create mischief in their lives.

I prefer to look at it as a rite of passage, a gateway to allow someone to be able to look deep into their own mind and emotional state and discover their true potential. I have found that I am not perfect and I will not, for the most part, fit into most people's accepted view of what makes a person normal. I am now ok with that. I will no longer beat myself up because I am different, rather i will accept my difference and allow it to thrive and take a life of its own and see where that takes me.

This is the power of self discovery. I am not sick or diseased, I do not need people to pity my challenges or past mistakes. I do not want pats on the shoulder or the self depreciating advice telling me how wrong I was and how, with a little tweaking, I may be able to fit into other people's view of how I should be.

Rehab was great if only to show me how wrong the whole culture of recovery is. I will not be told that I victim of a social disease, or that I am just wrong in some way. I will not look at others who can drink normally with envy and berate myself for being weak.

I choose to look at the rest of society as being less evolved, for they have not fought the battles I have, they have not been forced to confront their inner demons to the extent I have and therefore they will live their lives blinded to their true potential. They are not to be envied, they could only wish to know what I know.

I know where I may fall, I know where I am strong and I will do everything in my power to use this knowledge to make my world for me and my family the best it can be.

High dose of bac have not given this to me, I have given myself this knowledge. I have been to rehab, AA, counsellors, psychiatrists you name it and they have all taught me one valuable lesson. They look down on me to be pitied and someone who needs to be helped to be normal. screw them and the mentality that I need to be like the rest of the world. I do not need to find my solace in the bottom of a bottle, that much is true but the rest is crap.

These are my thoughts on life so far.

[RudyB]

A plea to sober people

hiya crunchy. my house is nice and toasty. furnace fixed. took me a minute to come back, but i'm guessing you didn't fall off your seat in anticipation of my return. you've gotten a bunch of good replies already!

i just wanted to respond to your query about how it is 'on the other side'. i tell you, it's fantastic! dunno if you've read any of my thread, but life has bloomed for me into a magical experience. i NEVER miss booze, ever, nor what it was doing or threatening to do to my life and my son. i don't miss any of it. when i want to, i have some bitter ale, the taste for which i haven't lost. but i can't get enough down fast enough to get even a good buzz. and i don't feel at all badly about it when i try. just old habits forcing their way in, and the beast teasing a little. but it never gets my goat.

keep plugging along, and you'll be amazed at the life you see unfolding beneath your feet and in front of your eyes!

rudy

[Bminor]

A plea to sober people

Dave_;1186469 wrote: Hey Crunchy,

I stopped drinking in Jan this year. I was on 30mg of bac once I got released from rehab as recommended by my doc. I found this site some months after and began reading posts. I had one weekend where I started drinking again because, well, I felt like it. I stopped after two days.

I approached my doctor and asked if he would allow me to try this drug at high doses more out of interest than anything else. I had already stopped drinking and I no longer felt that booze controlled my life but more than anything I was interested if I could get to a point that alcohol could be a forgotten desire so to speak.

For the last few months I have been going up in increments of 20 mgs a week. I am currently at 280 mgs a day. I fall asleep a lot quicker at night and I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night but I function quite well for the most part and I manage to work still 60 - 80 hours a week with not a lot of overall impact on my day.

Is it or will it ever be the miracle save all drug that it is often portrayed to be on here?
Well not for me, if I chose to I could still quite easily tuck into a bottle of Jack and blow a couple of days away and I don't think high doses of bac at this stage have done anything to change that mind set. I am determined to continue my program of increasing my dosage under medical supervision just to see what all the fuss is about but I won't go on forever.

I have no desire to enter into any argument about whether it is a god send or not other than to say it has done little for me yet but I still keep an open mind and continue to experiment for my own curiosity if nothing else.

I do not in any way regret my days at the bottom of the bottle. I have found something so powerful in my days since. I do not use words like recovery, alcoholism, disease or any of the other terms often used to describe people who allow alcohol to create mischief in their lives.

I prefer to look at it as a rite of passage, a gateway to allow someone to be able to look deep into their own mind and emotional state and discover their true potential. I have found that I am not perfect and I will not, for the most part, fit into most people's accepted view of what makes a person normal. I am now ok with that. I will no longer beat myself up because I am different, rather i will accept my difference and allow it to thrive and take a life of its own and see where that takes me.

This is the power of self discovery. I am not sick or diseased, I do not need people to pity my challenges or past mistakes. I do not want pats on the shoulder or the self depreciating advice telling me how wrong I was and how, with a little tweaking, I may be able to fit into other people's view of how I should be.

Rehab was great if only to show me how wrong the whole culture of recovery is. I will not be told that I victim of a social disease, or that I am just wrong in some way. I will not look at others who can drink normally with envy and berate myself for being weak.

I choose to look at the rest of society as being less evolved, for they have not fought the battles I have, they have not been forced to confront their inner demons to the extent I have and therefore they will live their lives blinded to their true potential. They are not to be envied, they could only wish to know what I know.

I know where I may fall, I know where I am strong and I will do everything in my power to use this knowledge to make my world for me and my family the best it can be.

High dose of bac have not given this to me, I have given myself this knowledge. I have been to rehab, AA, counsellors, psychiatrists you name it and they have all taught me one valuable lesson. They look down on me to be pitied and someone who needs to be helped to be normal. screw them and the mentality that I need to be like the rest of the world. I do not need to find my solace in the bottom of a bottle, that much is true but the rest is crap.

These are my thoughts on life so far.

Damn!!! That was an awesome post and I think you and I have a lot in common. Thank you!!!

[KatieSmiles]

A plea to sober people

Great post Dave!

[Crunchy]

A plea to sober people

Thanks, RedThread. It's good to hear about your flexibility in dose. I'm gathering that you find baclofen to be a comfort now. That's a little mind-blowing to me. Your largest dose (160) that you go up to when things get rough is a dose that makes everything feel really rough to me. It feels like a wall to me. A very hard cold wall.

I have read quite a bit. It is a lot to sort through. It would be neat if the pertinent parts could be distilled down to a Wikipedia entry or something like that. I'm not going to quit. I was a little worried when I couldn't even drink water, but so far the risk has been worth the results. I'll just keep pushing. Thanks so much for your candor!

Daya, your thread is still one of my favorites. It's a love-fest going on up there! The transformation in you is inspiring. I cannot think of that thread without smiling. Thanks so much for adding to this one.

Thanks, Rudyb. I will keep plugging. You keep plugging too. For years I have thought of all this as sort of an all or nothing thing. I don't ordinarily think that way about other things in life. That mindset has not served me well in this battle either! Thanks for your thoughts.

Dave, your wonderful post nailed me to my chair. It's like when you've been lied to all your life about something and then you hear the truth and you think, "YES! That's it. That's real."

I loved this line (among many), "I do not use words like recovery, alcoholism, disease or any of the other terms often used to describe people who allow alcohol to create mischief in their lives." I feel that way too. There is just something off about it all that does not reflect my experience or my understanding. To an extent I feel the same way about baclofen so it is nice to see you saying that too. Also this line "I choose to look at the rest of society as being less evolved," Yep, I don't if "evolved" is the word I would choose. I see things others don't (not in a "I see dead people" kind of way). I have done better when I trust me but it's hard to make it a habit. And I dare not trust me when I'm drunk so it's complicated. Anyway, thanks so much for a fabulous and empowering post.

Thanks very much to everyone who contributed. You are good people.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

A plea to sober people

Crunchy;1185588 wrote:

I would like to hear from decent, sober people who behave that way here and in their lives. I am sure they are here. I wonder why they are not more visible.

I would like to know how life is for you now. What’s it like being on the other side? Please say everything that is wonderful about that.

I would like to know whether trying to get to the switch is pointless or not. If not why not? I have one friend in PM who went up to 270. I already know that I won’t be able to do that. My drinking is reduced a lot. So far no drink for 3 days. But it’s not switch. I have to resist drinking. What is the point of going up to switch and going back down again to just to wind up where I already am?

Anyway what I would most like to hear is really wonderful things from truly long-time sober people. I think this forum could really use that too. This is my plea: Spoon-feed me hope.

Sorry for the delay. I was still smarting from the kerfuffle.
I can't attest to the decency part, Crunchy. I'll leave that up to whoever likes to keep track of such stuff. Perhaps the more evolved of us? :H But I can attest to both the efficacy and the worthwhile-ness of finding indifference.
For me it was a game-changer. A life altering extravaganza that all started because I took bac for four months, and on Friday, February 4th I decided not to have a drink 'cause I didn't really want one. I didn't really want one on Saturday, either. The days just kept rolling in. No mind-numbing debates about it, no thought about whether I could/should/would.
Now I can't hardly remember what it was like to be where you are, much less where I was before that, even.
Lo0p once shared a story about having a bottle of red wine next to his bed on a shelf for months. That it just collected dust. Then later he shared that he'd opened a bottle (maybe even the same one?) and had a glass and didn't want any more than the glass. Then, once, he shared about the fact that he thought he might like a glass of wine and couldn't be bothered to put on his shoes and go to the store to stand in the aisle and try to figure out what would actually taste good. I didn't believe it was possible.
I have had those experiences and more, now. My pantry is full of booze. Some of it left over from before I found indifference 8 months ago. You simply won't believe the difference. It's not possible to explain, really. It's that amazingly good. We're free. You can be too.
A last, friendly, word of advice. It's hard not to get entrenched in kerfuffle, I know. Particularly when you're sick. But we're here. The sober people. Lots and lots of us. Think of it this way: You can watch the local news and revel in the tragedy and craziness and chaos of the world, feeling safe in your own little corner of it and lamenting what the world has come to. OR you can actively look for the mind-blowing brilliance of...something, (whatever does it for you!) and rejoice at what can and will be yours when you're healthy.

I've seen you around the place since this thread, and I'm glad you're looking. I love the people here. You can also "follow" people that have found the goal by clicking on their name and reading their old posts. Lots of options abound for that, too. Some of my guides were Tiptronic_ct, Lo0p, Doggygirl, and several others. Some of those peeps are tired old grandpa-bacsters at this point. (ahem. :H) But you'll find your guides and friends if you keep looking...
:H
(oh. ftr, I had lots of limits to what I was going to be able to do when I started out. I was going to give it 30 days. I wasn't going to take more than 100mg. Then 60 days. And 140mg. And on and on. Four months. Now it's over. And nope, didn't return to anything approximating my former sick self.)

[Ne/Neva Eva]

A plea to sober people

Dave, (I'm not sure where to put this so that you'll see it... Here's hoping!)
A lot of what you've written resonates. I certainly eschew the idea that there is something inherently immoral or wrong about me that made me a drunk. I know lots of examples that would say otherwise. And a few "good" people that drink like I did. I dare say they might even be more evolved. Not sure since none of us are carrying around prehensile tails anymore.

I've got a question or two. I noticed you several months ago on the boards in another part of the forum. The weekend that you drank...Didn't you forget to take your medications just prior to that?

I think I may have sent you a private message way back when (I could be very wrong about that! :H) about posting the information about the rehab you went to on this thread:
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ion-47247.html

If you're not comfortable posting the name, (though I'm not sure why that would be the case?) then perhaps just the city. It may save more lives than you know!

Stay well, Dave.