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    My Way Out

    After all the turmoil of the past week, which I found myself participating in and perhaps contributing to, it seems a little reflection may be in order.

    So I'm reflecting:

    Q How did I get here?

    A I guess I have to admit that I am not an alcoholic, at least in the internet test scorecard sense of the word. I have only managed to seriously and regularly put at risk (if not completely fuck up) my job and my marriage and my life by doing what millions of us do: drinking every night of my adult life, but no doctor has ever told me I'm an alcoholic...even after I asked!

    Three years ago, I had had enough of the consequences of my regular alcohol abuse and when my wife told me (for about the 100th time) that I was not funny after 3 martinis and a bottle of wine -- when I was sure I was, I quit. Then, two years later, when our youngest son began to binge drink in college, just as I had done 40 years ago, I began to think alot about alcohol use and abuse. Then he was arrested for a "fraternity prank" and my friend, the president of the university, asked me whether he had an "alcohol problem". Our son dropped out of college and went to a 30 day rehab program. I began to try to figure out what alcoholism is all about. I also began to have serious doubts about orthodox rehab and twelve steps. I began to seriously read everything I could find about alcohol and alcoholism. Somehow I found references to Dr A's book online last fall and what I read was compelling enough to influence me to buy the book. (Everyone here should buy the book). I read it and thought it was pretty good, but our son was doing ok white knuckling at that point so I didn't give the book any more thought. Then the devil reappeared and I pulled the book down again and read it again. This time I realized that the issues contributing to Dr A's problems with alcohol (anxiety) were largely the same as both my son and I regularly experience. It resonated. But it seemed far-fetched. There's a pill that makes your anxiety go away and not want to drink any more? Can't be true! I asked my doctor about baclofen. He said, "Nope. There's no pill. Baclofen? No way. Baclofen's a narcotic." I went to the NIAAA website. Pill? Nope, the website says in no uncertain terms. "There is no magic bullet." So I reread Ameisen. He was describing my son's and my symptoms. It just rang true to me. So I googled around and I found plenty of references to baclofen and alcohol, including this forum. Bet that's how many of us get here. I read some threads. "Holy shit," I thought. This pill doesn't only work for Olivier Ameisen, it has worked for dozens of people on this forum. Then my son had "another incident" and that was enough. I called Dr L. As I've reported elsewhere, for my son's kind of anxiety and binge drinking, bac is a miracle. His anxiety is (mostly) gone and, as I write, he has no urge to binge drink.

    Q Why have I stayed?

    A In the beginning, when my son was titrating up, I felt compelled to return to mwo (where else can you go?) to double check and triple check and quadruple check (you get the point) on side effects and safety. I became a regular lurker. The more I lurked the more I began to understand what bac has meant to so many on this board. I read the long threads that started with horrifying despair and ended in amazing success. I became impressed not only by how effective bac can be, but also by the dimensions of the disease of alcoholism and how terrible and devastating it is. I was charmed by the intelligence and wit and courage of many names here so familiar to all of us. I also focussed on baclofen and anxiety and discovered many stories of its profound anxiolytic effect. I have to come back to the wit. Many days I would be sitting in front of the computer and, to my wife's alarm, burst out laughing. And given the state of the world these days, I can't often find much reason to laugh. I also found increasing proof positive that baclofen works. It suppresses craving for alcohol. Like nothing else.

    Q Why did I (all of a sudden) get involved last week?

    A I could write a lot about this, but a few sentences (largely cut and pasted from another post) will do. There is no question that respect for others is important on internet bulletin boards (as it is everywhere) and that some posts here had been disrespectful and perhaps to some offensive. I must say that initially I was inclined to side with the critics, because I had read some of Murph's stuff and he can go a bit over the top...it can be off-putting and insensitive. But then, the more I thought about it, I thought: you know, this is a r-e-c-o-v-e-r-y forum. Its not dancing school (you know, with rules and etiquette and all that). We can't be chasing people away. Especially guys like Murph who have walked the walk. Yes, he pissed people off...big time...but he also lived through and told an amazing story and he also reached out...he reached out...and helped a lot of people. A lot of people. Some who credit him with saving their lives...that's pretty damn powerful. Look, there are plenty of "sensitive" people out there who never do jack shit to help another human. Never. Murph helps. I have to give him huge credit. And then I learned that some of the critics were also making and laughing at racist, sexist, insensitive and offensive jokes, themselves...and that just sent me over the top, myself. I guess I lost my temper over that. For some reason, I just can't abide arrogance and hypocrisy...mea culpa. Arrogance and hypocrisy and ignorance, too, are real problems, not just when visited on the meds board at mwo by vigilantes but in life in general and in the treatment of alcoholism in particular.

    Q What does the future look like?

    A Ah, the perfect question for Cassand(er)(ra). As Otter has repeatedly (and correctly) pointed out to me, mwo is not the ideal place to politic for the future of baclofen. He also observes, correctly, I'm sure, that many of us here are posting drunk, which complicates the quality of the communication, although quite understandably so. Ne has told me several times that this board is about support, not science. I don't disagree, although I believe most participants are very much interested in the unfolding science.

    So, this 10 minutes, I'm not sure there is much of a future for me here. I have just been PM'd by one of the vigilantes who has objected to my support for the leaders here on the bac threads and who objects to my recent efforts to get some of the issues out on the table here. An increasingly recurrent theme. Off with his head! But, I haven't made any decisions. Maybe they will get made for me. Let's just see how things play out.

    What is for sure is that

    1 Alcoholism is a disease of the brain, and is treatable by numerous existing medications and other therapies.
    2 Baclofen is a medication which works for many, if not all, and
    3 When it works, it is a miracle, and
    4 Dr Olivier Ameisen is a hero.
    5 But its not the whole answer and support along the way (and after), of the kind that Murphy and Ne and many many others have provided here on mwo, is and will be crucial even where baclofen ultimately "works", and
    6 There is much more work to be done in the science of the brain and plenty of other treatments to be discovered. Including in understanding the connections between exercise, fitness, nutrition, caring, sleep and mental health and addiction.
    7 And, importantly, much work remains to be done to educate healthcare professionals, treatment centers, and law enforcement agencies and the community at large that alcoholism is not a moral failing and that it is treatable and should be treated actively and aggressively.


    Of these things I am sure.

    Life works in funny ways. One step forward...

    Cassander
    With profound appreciation to Dr Olivier Ameisen for his brilliant insight and courageous determination

    #2
    My Way Out

    Wonderful post, Cassander (I find myself thinking that about a LOT of your posts!). It's clear that a lot of thoughtful consideration went into it. Thank you for telling your story. I'm so glad that baclofen is working for your son!

    Cassander;1186129 wrote:
    1 Alcoholism is a disease of the brain, and is treatable by numerous existing medications and other therapies.
    2 Baclofen is a medication which works for many, if not all, and
    3 When it works, it is a miracle, and
    4 Dr Olivier Ameisen is a hero.
    5 But its not the whole answer and support along the way (and after), of the kind that Murphy and Ne and many many others have provided here on mwo, is and will be crucial even where baclofen ultimately "works", and
    6 There is much more work to be done in the science of the brain and plenty of other treatments to be discovered. Including in understanding the connections between exercise, fitness, nutrition, caring, sleep and mental health and addiction.
    7 And, importantly, much work remains to be done to educate healthcare professionals, treatment centers, and law enforcement agencies and the community at large that alcoholism is not a moral failing and that it is treatable and should be treated actively and aggressively.
    I agree wholeheartedly with all of the above. :goodjob:

    I, for one, really hope that you decide to stick around.
    Better Living Through Chemistry

    Switched at 180mgs of Baclofen on 1/31/11, and again on 10/8/11 at 200mgs.

    Could've been a swan on a glassy lake, could've been a gull in a clipper's wake. Could've been a ladybug on a windchime, but she was born a dragonfly.
    ~Clutch

    Comment


      #3
      My Way Out

      UK,

      Delete it, come on. It is not about you!
      Please!

      LL
      The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings.

      *Don't look where you fall, look why you slipped*

      Comment


        #4
        My Way Out

        YA BLOODY RIGHT TO SAY
        Psalms 119:45


        ?Start by doing what is necessary, then what is possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible.?

        St. Francis of Assisi



        I'm not perfect, never will be, but better than I was and not as good as I'm going to be.

        :rays:

        Comment


          #5
          My Way Out

          It's ok I've asked to resign from here with immediate effect.

          Comment


            #6
            My Way Out

            Cassander;1186129 wrote:
            So, this 10 minutes, I'm not sure there is much of a future for me here.
            Can you elaborate, Cassander? If it's your choice, then please reconsider. You've gotta be one of the sanest people here, and an important contributor.

            If you're saying that it might not be your choice, well, I'm struggling to think of any reasons at all that would make it so.
            Knowledge of what is possible is the beginning of happiness.
            George Santayana

            Comment


              #7
              My Way Out

              UK, it eeems as if you have been drinking. I do not like to see people banned or leave because of that. That is why we are here.

              Are you okay? Hang in there, girl.

              Cindi
              AF April 9, 2016

              Comment


                #8
                My Way Out

                Cinders;1186225 wrote: UK, it eeems as if you have been drinking. I do not like to see people banned or leave because of that. That is why we are here.

                Are you okay? Hang in there, girl.

                Cindi
                More assumptions, I made the decision to sum up my feelings in two words.

                I am sick of logging in looking for something positive, when there is nothing but fighting. It doesn't help me, and doesn't help anyone else. I simply do not wish to be here if there is a continuous air of self-righteousness. I held my hands up and surrendered but some just go on. This isn't helping and it certainly isn't what I came here for.

                Comment


                  #9
                  My Way Out

                  UK,

                  I guess I am not reading everything that came to this. The last week has been hell. You are very important to this board and if you leave the salvation to some on Naltrexone may be lost.
                  Please reconsider; many people need your words here.


                  LL
                  The hardest arithmetic to master is that which enables us to count our blessings.

                  *Don't look where you fall, look why you slipped*

                  Comment


                    #10
                    My Way Out

                    I think we just have to accept that drunk posting is going to happen on an alcohol recovery forum. This doesn't make it ok of course but it does at least explain a lot of things said here. Arguing and fighting is a common event between drinkers in real life, and it gets very ugly sometimes. I have sent emails and texts full of gibberish to friends in the middle of the night when drinking, so I am not immune to this either.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      My Way Out

                      Look. This is beyond ridiculous.

                      Cassander, leaving is the same thing as giving in. I am very resistant to the idea of wandering into the fray, again. But it is simply irresponsible to walk away from an attempt at rational discourse about something so vitally important.
                      The sheer amount of misinformation that's been bandied about in the last week is daunting to think about confronting. Those things (such as the fact that this site belongs to Roberta Jewell, for instance) are easy when compared with the hurt feelings, the hyperbole, the sheer outrageousness of the exchanges.
                      But rational and reasonable discourse should win. The rest? It's just kerfuffle, Cass. And it's ALL been said before. There is nothing new here, recently. Not the people involved, not OA's recent thread, not even the person you were trying to engage. It's all been said before. It's just louder this time.

                      The poor new people and lurkers have no idea what's going on. Neither do the people from the other areas, or even people who don't read as you have. It's the nature of the (recent) beast around here. Lack of information. Lack of reasonable discussion. Lack of ...a lot.
                      I despair of it getting better. But to give up is to give in. And there is enough of that in the great wide world.
                      I need a break. I'm sure you do, too. But this does not mean, not by a long shot, that hyperbole or ignorance wins. It won't.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My Way Out

                        I started out on the meds thread when i joined here (on naltrexone because of crown86 success). I did not work for me but i didnt give up. I finally gave up drinking on my own in march of this hear after reading and posting on mwo for almost a year. This place has been a godsend to me, good, bad and ugly. Honestly what i read here is no different than real life situations. There are always going to be people we dont agree with or even like. I really hate to see people banned or leave here. There are no perfect people and somehow we have to learn to "agree to disagree". I have yet to find a single member that ever upset me enough to want them banned or want them to leave. We all affect each other in diferrent ways. What works for one may not work for another. To each his own.

                        I read this site multiple times everyday. It got and keeps me sober.

                        I hope you all find your way out as i have and that we all can find a way to coexist.
                        AL free since March 17th 2011...loving this life. No drinking no matter what.

                        Hi my name is Lori and i am so happy to be here.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          My Way Out

                          I think it would be helpful if this board was split up into different medications and people could comment / read about what works for them and stop arguing about which way is "better".

                          Rob

                          Comment


                            #14
                            My Way Out

                            Anything that gets a person sober, or not alcohol dependant is a good thing. I dont understand why people would fight over which way is better. I believe this site is designed for all of us. Thats why it is called my way out. I joined this site because of all the different ways people were getting away from the hell of alcohol dependance/abuse. It appealed to me because of the diversity and ideas. I hope this doesnt change.
                            AL free since March 17th 2011...loving this life. No drinking no matter what.

                            Hi my name is Lori and i am so happy to be here.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              My Way Out

                              red67;1186266 wrote: Anything that gets a person sober, or not alcohol dependant is a good thing. I dont understand why people would fight over which way is better. I believe this site is designed for all of us. Thats why it is called my way out. I joined this site because of all the different ways people were getting away from the hell of alcohol dependance/abuse. It appealed to me because of the diversity and ideas. I hope this doesnt change.
                              i'ma way and I feel fine
                              Psalms 119:45


                              ?Start by doing what is necessary, then what is possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible.?

                              St. Francis of Assisi



                              I'm not perfect, never will be, but better than I was and not as good as I'm going to be.

                              :rays:

                              Comment

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