Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

[Otter]

No, I am not going to do this here.

However, I feel very strongly about this so I have decided to continue the debate on the Baclofen UK site. I say that I feel strongly because I went through this experience and, at the same time, was on the phone and pm'ing Suzanne.

Anyone going through the hell of what we were going through back then who can get some respite from this aspect of this illness deserves to be given access to and support in the administering of this procedure which I consider to be life saving and life changing.

This is my last post here although I have to say I did appreciate what Ig said about moths and lights.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

Yeah. I've had several last posts in the last month. I get that moth to the flame thing. And sometimes it feels as though it has the same result...

Otter, I am not sure how to respond to that or to the topic at hand.

That's a very touchy debate, simply because the people involved in actually taking the baclofen are so sick. It's potentially dangerous. Right? Not so much because of the baclofen, I agree, but because of the alcohol. And baclofen is no picnic under certain scenarios. Taken as a last resort on one's own...While not life threatening, in and of itself. Oy. It's not safe, is it?

I saw what you posted on BacUK, and appreciated the part about getting professional health care input. What else needs to be revisited? If you want people to be able to see it, put it on the Consolidated Baclofen Thread. Then it's there, where we at least try to consolidate information. Right?

[Otter]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

The problem here is that, unlike Paul's experience in New York, if you present yourself to a hospital in a life threatening condition due to alcoholism you are turned away. That, is negligent on any view and with the use of Baclofen as a detox there is no need for it anymore. I don't like posting about these things here because I post some legal point and get someone coming back saying I am wrong and they are a medical negligence lawyer, then a few months later it becomes obvious that they are wrong. This is a support forum and I don't find it that useful for what I am trying to do. If one goes on this forum and encourages people do do something like I did or Bluto did with liquid Baclofen you can get yourself banned or the thread cancelled when in fact it is a major public health issue.

If you see someone collapsed in the gutter obviously drunk, do you see someone who is ill and needs hospitalizing or do you see someone who has poor morals and so you just walk by and leave them there?

Yes, Ne, the people are very sick which is the whole point. They need to be hospitalized.

You cannot get into a hospital detox here unless you are sober, and sober for some time!!

People are going through detoxes here and posting about binge drinking. Paulslice should have been in hospital during that detox. What would the chances have been of getting into a hospital for that treatment? Nil here and I expect the same is true in Toronto.

[terryk]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

Otter;1191820 wrote: The problem here is that, unlike Paul's experience in New York, if you present yourself to a hospital in a life threatening condition due to alcoholism you are turned away. That, is negligent on any view and with the use of Baclofen as a detox there is no need for it anymore. I don't like posting about these things here because I post some legal point and get someone coming back saying I am wrong and they are a medical negligence lawyer, then a few months later it becomes obvious that they are wrong. This is a support forum and I don't find it that useful for what I am trying to do. If one goes on this forum and encourages people do do something like I did or Bluto did with liquid Baclofen you can get yourself banned or the thread cancelled when in fact it is a major public health issue.

If you see someone collapsed in the gutter obviously drunk, do you see someone who is ill and needs hospitalizing or do you see someone who has poor morals and so you just walk by and leave them there?

Yes, Ne, the people are very sick which is the whole point. They need to be hospitalized.

You cannot get into a hospital detox here unless you are sober, and sober for some time!!

People are going through detoxes here and posting about binge drinking. Paulslice should have been in hospital during that detox. What would the chances have been of getting into a hospital for that treatment? Nil here and I expect the same is true in Toronto.

1) Just to clarify: When you say "here" in the first instance you mean The United Kingdom. In the second instance you mean the MWO meds forum. The third is the UK again and the fourth is not entirely clear, but I'm guessing is the meds forum.

2) I will remind you that my experience in the US has been different and I have *never* been turned away from emergency treatment with life threatening conditions due to alcohol abuse. I absolutely *was denied* high dose baclofen when I was hospitalized, which caused baclofen withdrawal until I supplemented my dose with my own supply. I can't speak to anyone's experience in Toronto.

3) I agree that there is evidence that baclofen can be used for detox and used to prevent alcohol withdrawal. I think it's dangerous that your dialog would lead your reader to believe that baclofen alone can be used for detox and to prevent withdrawal when the lion's share of the literature mentions (situational and sometime necessity of) adjunct benzodiazipines. Paulslice had access to, and was given lorazepam by his sister Susanna. I have had personal experience of having high dose baclofen (235mg+) *not* prevent withdrawal during a binge.

thanks,
-tk

[JackieClaire]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

While I can only speak for the hospitals in the North East of England I have known fellow alcoholics who have been treated with emergency care on critical wards. As these beds are at a premium along with critical care on other wards, the number of patients who are treated is limited. They are rarely sober at this point.

I myself have been through medical de-toxes using diazapam as a day patient again in the NE of England and the only criterion was for me to abstain from drinking for at least 10 hours prior to admission. Unfortunately some patients could not achieve this but were still admitted and treated later on in the day before serious withdrawals had set in.

Please do not generalize about hospitals in the UK. Each health authority will operate its own policy.

[GingerDust]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

Just a note to dumb Americans like me who might be puzzled by the discussion. The difference between Great Britain, the UK and England always confused me until a patient English friend sent me this:

[Lo0p]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

So if we just said "British Islanders" we could do away with having to refer to that inane venn diagram and at the same time not offend any of their multitudinous sensitivities?

[GingerDust]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

I don't know Lo0p. It's not for me to know what might offend a Scot, let alone an Irishman. I tread softly and repeatedly mumble "I'madumbAmerican." It's worked so far . . .

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

THAT IS BRILLIANT Ginger! Thank you. :H

I was referring to the chart. But your comment is v. funny too.

[mario]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

Just for the buzz :-)

The term British Isles is controversial in Ireland, where there are objections to its usage due to the association of the word British with Ireland.The Government of Ireland does not use the term and its embassy in London discourages its use. As a result, Britain and Ireland is becoming a preferred description,and Atlantic Archipelago is increasingly favoured in academia, although British Isles is still commonly employed.

[GingerDust]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

"Atlantic Archipelago" sounds terribly exotic! That's it! I must go to Atlantic Archipelago (how would you even pronounce that?)! "Atlantis" pales in comparison. I know how to pronounce "Atlantis." Pronunciation notwithstanding, "Atlantic Archipelago" is on my bucket list. And to think that some sorry people are satisfied to merely see the British Isles! Silly fools.

[Lo0p]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

GingerDust;1192034 wrote: I don't know Lo0p. It's not for me to know what might offend a Scot, let alone an Irishman. I tread softly and repeatedly mumble "I'madumbAmerican." It's worked so far . . .

I have been instructed (by numerous sources) that when traveling abroad I should tell people that I am from California, NOT Amurrica (apparently it sounds much better).

[mario]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

Atlantic Archipelago sounds good to me.:-)

[GingerDust]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

You gotta wonder what they think when you say ?California.? I?m guessing that they?re not envisioning Death Valley. They are thinking ?Hollywood.?

If I tell people on the other side that I?m from Washington, they immediately think D.C. Does ANYONE actually live in D.C.? If so, I feel sorry for them. But other-side-of-the-ponders don?t think Seattle? when you say ?Washington?

I don?t think they know that the U.S. is all of Europe cubed. California alone must be three European countries with a climate zone that probably ranges beyond anything in the British Isles.

It pisses me off when people on the other side of the pond are ticked that we haven?t figured them out yet. We?re still trying to figure out California, for F?s sake! And you can take that anyway you like ? geographically, climatically, entertainment industry, housing market, economically, politically ? we all point to CA and exclaim:
?WTF??

[Lo0p]

Dosage and Frequency - Take 2 - Binge Drinking

I think they all think Hollywood and surfing. I've never surfed in my life and I've never been to Hollywood but I'd rather they conjure up that mental picture rather than one of whatever kind of an idiot would've voted for someone who coined the term "Amurrica."