Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

[Otter]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

You can do lots of things in the UK as a doctor without being registered with the GMC. That is where we keep coming unstuck. The designation of doctor does not depend on registration with the GMC. You don't have to be registered with the GMC here to be a doctor so long as you don't practice medicine and giving the advice that Phill gives does not amount to practicing medicine here.

I am a member of three Law Societies. In Canada I have to be a member to practice law. In England I can practice without being a member, it is optional. Like Bill P said he could practice plastic surgery. Half the doctors on Harley Street are not registered with the GMC. It is just like that and all the flapping about and name calling just is not going to change anything.

RR As for the Manual. I stand by what I said. It may be that a lot of the information came from here but you try telling a doctor to spend time trawling through this website to find information and he will look at you like you are some kind of idiot. If he is polite he won't lol. The point is that they should look here for information and they don't. They would look in a manual. Phill recognized that an wrote the manual and he also came here which no "real" doctor does.

Why do you in the States feel you need to F.ck over some one in another country where we have so few people doing anything about this illness. This is a very backward place medically and all the doctors are paid functionaries of the state and get a huge salary for lancing boils and handing out statins. No one here sticks their neck out for anyone, certainly not alcoholics, and for someone to come along and actually put their name out there and get people interested in Baclofen is to be commended.

You think this is such a big deal. It is pathetic. We had Dr. Gillian McKeith who was on TV with a program about diet. She wasn't a doctor at all and someone complained so, gee, guess what they did to her. They asked her to stop calling herself a doctor. She did and kept on with her TV program. No one actually gave a flying f.ck about it. You get so wrapped up in professional qualifications. Here, anyone can call themselves a doctor, even DJ's like Dr. Fox. It just doesn't mean anything because no medical doctor here actually has an MD degree so it is just a word. The whole professional scene is different here. We have midwives delivering children. There isn't a doctor in sight. In Canada all deliveries must be performed by doctors. It is just a different scene here.

I just spoke to a doctor a couple of hours ago about Baclofen. She said that she knew it worked on cravings, but was totally uninterested in it. What is really and truly incredible is that here is this amazing medical development and you get doctors hearing about it here and just saying "oh yeah, yawn, pour me a cup of tea". The national motto of the UK is "I'm all right Jack" which means, if I am ok then I certainly don't give a damn about anyone else.

[JackieClaire]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

Otter you stated

I am a member of three Law Societies. In Canada I have to be a member to practice law. In England I can practice without being a member, it is optional.

As far as practising as a solicitor in England and Wales you need to have a practising certificate issued by the Solicitors Regulation Authority, a body set up to regulate solicitors, a role previously carried out by the Law Society.

There is no actual profession called a lawyer in England and Wales - it is a generic term used to cover a range such as solicitors, barristers and licensed conveyancers. There are also quasi legal jobs such as will writers but they do not call themselves lawyers again as such.

I have been married to a solicitor of the Supreme Court of England and Wales for almost 26 years and have to admit that he dictated the above post at my request.

And he like me is curious as to you what you meant by what you said in the above quote.

[Otter]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

JackieClaire;1199041 wrote: Otter you stated



As far as practising as a solicitor in England and Wales you need to have a practising certificate issued by the Solicitors Regulation Authority, a body set up to regulate solicitors, a role previously carried out by the Law Society.

There is no actual profession called a lawyer in England and Wales - it is a generic term used to cover a range such as solicitors, barristers and licensed conveyancers. There are also quasi legal jobs such as will writers but they do not call themselves lawyers again as such.

I have been married to a solicitor of the Supreme Court of England and Wales for almost 26 years and have to admit that he dictated the above post at my request.



And he like me is curious as to you what you meant by what you said in the above quote.

I was making a point that different jurisdictions have different ways of regulating the profession. In England you need a practising certificate. If you don't have one you can still remain on the rolls as a solicitor and write books and you could counsel people about alcohol addiction, for instance. Law Society membership is optional and not necessary to practise.

In Canada, there is no such thing as a practising certificate. You must be a member of the relevant law society for the province in which you practice. It is so strict a qualification of calling yourself a lawyer that no one can call themselves that unless they are a member. The bizarre result of this is that you cannot voluntarily give up your membership in the law society. You have to have permission or be removed and membership otherwise lasts for life and you have to advise the law society what you are doing every year till the day you die. It stops people who are not members calling themselves lawyers or any similar name such as barrister, solicitor or attorney, depending on the province. The same goes for other professions such as Professional Engineers and Doctors. The professional bodies take strong measures to stop people calling themselves by names which suggest they belong to these regulatory bodies.

There is a huge amount of status in North America about calling yourself a doctor. It means you have an MD degree which is a massive status symbol. Here there is no such thing and the word doctor is not a protected name. The GMC will not stop anyone from calling themselves a doctor unless they try to practice medicine. Alcoholism has not been considered a medical condition here and is "treated" with talking therapy by a lot of people who have no medical qualification and the GMC has no control over them so if you are a non practising doctor and write books or counsel people about alcoholism there is no way the GMC can do anything about it. People are getting very worked up here about Phill setting up a counselling service for alcoholism. If he worked for the Priory Group he would have no problem. He could counsel people using his name including Dr. and that is all there is to it. Because he rubbed a few people the wrong way here they just carry on a vendetta against him. It is very sad considering he is very knowledgeable about alcoholism and Baclofen and has a lot to offer to people who want private counselling.

Anyway, I think this is not a particularly interesting topic and has been done to death.

Ultimately, it is a matter of Caveat Emptor and it is up to people who feel they may have been misled by him or given medical advice to take up the matter and my own view, knowing him quite well, is that he knows what he is doing and stays clear of offering medical advice whereas unqualified people here have no qualms about advising about medical issues to the whole world.

[Otter]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

Yes Zen, but it is beside the point.

Maybe the truth of the matter is that every alcoholic has been treated wrongly and unfairly because people who are not alcoholics believe that their illness is self inflicted and they deserve what they get. How do you ever reverse that and restore to someone what they should and could have had if this illness had been recognized and treated years ago? Maybe it is a normal human reaction to rage against the machine that destroys you if you have an alcohol problem and maybe some people try to take back what they have lost, rightly or wrongly. Maybe it is a good thing to stand up for yourself against the tsunami of prejudice which is associated with this illness and demand that people take notice of this new medical discovery.

Just sayin, you know...

[Otter]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

Well, for those of you who want to get in touch with him you can do so at alcoholism-northwest.co.uk

Maybe it is time to lock this thread. Enough is enough.

[Lo0p]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

Well then maybe (maybe) I've misunderstood. Dr. Phill might be okay but if you are going to speak to me like that then fuck you.

[Otter]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

OOOPs.

Lo0p, I apologize, the comment was not aimed at you at all, the majority of the post was aimed at RR who posted what I thought was a very unpleasant post. I have taken away the comment anyway.

Damn this posting business. I have to do something else for a living.

[Otter]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

Zenstyle;1199130 wrote: Anyhooo.... hello Loop. Nice muscles. Must get my arse to the gym tomorrow. ;o)

I honestly was trying to talk with you on this one Otter... but that thread locking thing... sorry that's kind of a wee bit off base.

Just where does all this nastiness come from on this forum towards someone you have never even spoken to.

I just don't get it. It is so easy to come on here and just sh-t all over someone you don't know. Isn't it enough to be a recovering alcoholic without this sort of stuff.

And still no one ever addresses the issue about non medically trained people taking the moral high ground over someone who is medically trained.

There is a big warning on this site that the site does not give medical advice so even the owners of the site discount everything that is posted here. How does someone who has trained and worked as a doctor for 30 years all of a sudden lose the medical knowledge and understanding he accumulated because he is unable to run a medical practice through alcoholism. It is just not a fair or accurate representation of the situation.

[Lo0p]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

Heya Zen! I'll see you there! :bigwink:

I was really just trying to listen, and I was, up until that.

[Lo0p]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

Otter;1199132 wrote: OOOPs.

Lo0p, I apologize, the comment was not aimed at you at all, the majority of the post was aimed at RR who posted what I thought was a very unpleasant post. I have taken away the comment anyway.

Damn this posting business. I have to do something else for a living.

Accepted. I had hoped it wasn't directed at me, but it seemed pretty clearly so.

I was one of Phill's indignant supporters until I learned of his new business.

I'm still not sure what to think about it now.

[Lo0p]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

Leg day. Shooting for a 1 rep max of 390ish lbs on ATG (ass to grass/ground) squats, which in reality is 310lbs 8 times. It's not gonna happen tonight, but Imma try dammit!

edit: not really ATG, but lower than parallel so damn close.

[Otter]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

I did not like Phill's posts here either. They gave the impression he was crazy and I initially was reluctant to have anything to do with him and he sent me some emails which were not pleasant. I did not feel he was the right person to be taking Baclofen forward in the UK.

I changed my mind about him completely.

I learned through talking to him and reading a lot of what he has written that he is immensely talented. You may not like his style but the man is incredibly bright and funny. He is quirky and self deprecating and if he says some of his work is well received it probably was because he is equally able to say that some of his work is crap. He is straight down the line when it comes to Baclofen and his approach is honest. He does not preach the gospel of Baclofen as a magic bullet and uses a variety of other therapies so it is really unfair to say he is practising medicine because anyone who uses his services knows he cannot prescribe and he makes no bones about having lost his practice. Again, Doctor Ameisen lost his ticket, wrote a book, advised on dosage and some people here thought his posts were crazy and he left this forum. I think that if you are sensitive and know what you are talking about, it can be really insulting and hurtful to be attacked by people who know less than you.

Those were heady days remember. A lot of people here were going through big mental changes and very gung ho about Baclofen. I just put his behaviour down to that. A lot of people are affected by posting here and it can get very intense...UKblonde, Forieanne, Winks etc. it is getting to be a long list.

[Lo0p]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

Zenstyle;1199151 wrote: Do you use amino acids? I reckon the blend is the way to go but a lot of the guys use Argenine. And some use it with an Ornithine mix.

I don't use anything. No supplements, nothing. I don't even drink protein shakes.

Real food all the way baby!

Okay dammit I'm leaving for the gym or I'll never get there! :H

[Otter]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

I hear you Zen. I knew nothing about that. I am not saying he is perfect or that he conducted himself well here. You could say the same about a lot of people, and do, including me. I say some pretty stupid, ignorant things. It is so easy to come here and just spew a load of nonsense into the ether. It is very sad and very unfortunate. I am not pretending to excuse any of that.

[Otter]

Phill Thomas - The Bac Man

So, who do people go to in the UK if they want to have personal counselling from someone who understands how Baclofen works and fits into a rehab program? There isn't anyone else and if you went to a rehab clinic which used Baclofen, if you could find one, you would be counselled by someone who has less understanding and no medical qualification and you would be charged 5 times as much. How is that better? You could say that is charlatanism as are the clinics which are continuing to operate without any regard to HDB treatment. Don't you think that before someone is charged ?5000 for in patient rehab without Baclofen they should have the choice of getting a medication which they can get on prescription which works better and does not require expensive residential treatment and loss of income etc. Who is out there saying these clinics are misleading people by employing outdated treatments and charging for them? I wonder how many of them know about Baclofen and just don't tell patients. To me that is fraud.

The other thing is there seems to be a suggestion that he is doing something which involves offering medical services. If that were the case then the private alcohol rehab clinics would be prosecuted by the GMC and they are not. They fall outside GMC regulation.