Relief on Ritalin

[LVT25]

Relief on Ritalin

Thanks for those links and statistics Bruunhilde! I've never heard of oppositional defiance disorder, but I'm pretty sure my son has that too! I'm going to go look at those links now.:thanks:

[Doggygirl]

Relief on Ritalin

Greg (or anyone else who knows..) - does tolerance to stimulants work differently for people with ADHD, in the same manner that the drug has somewhat the opposite impact than on a non-ADHD individual? A couple days ago, one of my teachers glossed over something that has been stuck in my head. (it was a very general overview of different types of drugs - not a detailed exploration of anything) At any rate - there was just something about how he explained the stimulant effect being different in ADHD that made me think tolerance might work differently too.

That is probably so vague as to not be intelligible!!!

DG

[Greg]

Relief on Ritalin

Doggygirl;1202018 wrote: Greg (or anyone else who knows..) - does tolerance to stimulants work differently for people with ADHD, in the same manner that the drug has somewhat the opposite impact than on a non-ADHD individual? A couple days ago, one of my teachers glossed over something that has been stuck in my head. (it was a very general overview of different types of drugs - not a detailed exploration of anything) At any rate - there was just something about how he explained the stimulant effect being different in ADHD that made me think tolerance might work differently too.

That is probably so vague as to not be intelligible!!!

DG

I have no personal experience with stimulant use in ADHD, but I do read a lot of medical articles (not just anecdotal stories, forums, or otherwise isolated opinions) about drugs. From all this reading, I have to say that it does sound as if there is a fundamental difference in tolerance between prescribed stimulant use in ADHD (and narcolepsy) and other uses of stimulants. I think that much of this difference could be due to the different dosage methods and fundamental attitudes by those taking the drugs.

Everything I have ever read/heard about the use of stimulants recreationally points to rapid tolerance (just like opiates). Some things I have read about use of stimulants for depression and ADHD also points to some tolerance, but not as rapid, and perhaps levelling out at a stable dose. Logically, if tolerance always rose rapidly and without limit in all cases, stimulants could never be used on any long-term basis for any medical condition, because constantly higher doses would always be needed. The fact that they are used for these conditions, over years, says to me that they must keep working sufficiently without tolerance rendering them unusable.

I would be interested to hear other views on this myself.

[Bruunhilde]

Relief on Ritalin

On Dr Mercola's site, he associates celiac disease with ADHD/ADD. Just thought I'd mention. He says to eliminate all gluten as well as sugar to help naturally help without the RX and see how it works. It may or may not - if you don't have celiac disease for example, eliminating gluten will do little for your ADHD/ADD.

For what its worth...

[Isolde]

Relief on Ritalin

Bruunhilde;1202180 wrote: On Dr Mercola's site, he associates celiac disease with ADHD/ADD. Just thought I'd mention. He says to eliminate all gluten as well as sugar to help naturally help without the RX and see how it works. It may or may not - if you don't have celiac disease for example, eliminating gluten will do little for your ADHD/ADD.

For what its worth...

Bruun, I was just coming here to post that link for you! :H

I know I don't have celiac disease though. I have no problem with carbs at all, and my diet is already super clean. So I doubt that completely eliminating gluten would help me at all. I'd really miss my daily oatmeal.

[redhead77]

Relief on Ritalin

Hi Guys!

DG and Greg, I don't know of tolerance issues exactly with stimulant use for ADHD. My psych did tell me sometimes people notice that their extended relief medications wear off too early. He sometimes prescribes another med in a nonextended form for carry through. I haven't had this experience myself. As a matter of fact, what he prescribed to me was too much. He gave me Adderall XR 20 mg. I found that to be too much stimulant. I now take the 10 mg and have found zero tolerance. I don't even take it everyday. I'll ask him at my next appt to be sure.

My son, on the other hand, was started on Concerta a few months ago. I did find the drug to wear off too soon on him. I asked his pediatrician if he needed something to carry him through the late afternoon until evening (he couldn't stay focused to complete homework). He felt that in his case, we should go up in dose. He was on the lowest dose of Concerta and for his age...he went up to the next dose and viola! Magic! This drug has been the best thing that's ever happened to him. It's not just in what I witness, it's his teachers, and even himself. He tells me he feels 'normal'. He's making friends more easily, his self esteem has improved. I had many hours of testing on him, and he was suffering from some mild depression and anxiety (by 9 years old!)...all related to his ADHD (he has the inattentive type, he's not hyperactive). I'm wondering for us inattentive types, if we might need a little less stimulant. Anyhoo, I digress...

BRUUN!!, yes, food intolerances. I hadn't read about gluten and ADD exactly. I do know there's a link for many between diet and these problems. I know in my case, I have to avoid gluten. I'm not a celiac, but I'm definitely intolerant. It causes all sorts of problems for me. I don't know if you remember from my thread, but I'd wanted to eventually convert my kids to gluten free (it tends to be genetic). I believe my son might benefit. I'd eventually like to start him on an anti-candida diet. There's a pediatric psychiatrist in Milwaukee who uses anti-candida diets and nystatin to treat ADHD and autism with a good deal of success. Thanks for bringing that up!

[Doggygirl]

Relief on Ritalin

Very interesting stuff - the dietary connections, etc. And Red - you must be just thrilled about your son's progress. I'm so happy for him AND for you!

DG

[Bruunhilde]

Relief on Ritalin

Thanks Is, great minds ...

Red, catching up on this thread reminds me - I switched my super clean (except alcohol!) diet to include grains this past week, and I'm dragging my knuckles on the ground today. I've had brown rice, organic quinoa, and organic potatoes (white and sweet). I haven't noticed anything right after eating, just in general, day after day, more and more tired. Starches and grains! Oh no! And all I was trying to do was desperately find something "new" to eat because I was definitely neglecting my food. Can barely think! Thought it was the tryptophan but now I'm thinking its the adding of the grains last week. The fun is officially over~

[redhead77]

Relief on Ritalin

Bruun, I too, even with a gluten free diet can't go overboard on the carbs. I end up with blood sugar problems, and I start to gain weight. It's not as profound as if I were eating gluten carbs, but I do notice I need to moderate my carbs in general. I meant to tell you when you asked if there's anything natural one can take to combat ADHD, some other insights I've had. You could take Acetyl L Carnitine, magnesium (which you already do), and fish oil (which you already do). The big deficiency seen in ADHD is zinc. While I'm almost positive I'm zinc deficient, I've been rather hesitant to start supplementing with it. I mean, outside of what's in my multi. It can be tricky and you can cause a worse deficiency if done improperly. I'm bringing my son to a place called the Pfeiffer treatment center and correcting zinc deficiency is one of their specialties. They actually measure the levels via blood and hair samples (along with testing for other nutritional deficiencies) and compound a tailor made supplement in their onsite pharmacy. They continue to measure the response to make sure you aren't getting too much, or too little of the zinc or anything else. After him, I will do the same for myself.

I'm hoping to find an answer, so we both aren't required to take stimulants for the rest of our lives. There's also a correlation in many alcoholics, that correcting zinc and B6 greatly reduces cravings, or in some cases eradicates them (I prefer not to be on extremely high doses of a muscle relaxant for the rest of my life, too.) I'm going to attach some links on zinc deficiency and the Pfeiffer treatment center, I know they have mobile outreach units. A little side note, Joan Larson believes in Dr Pfeiffer's work a great deal, and has written about zinc and B6 in her Depression Free, Naturally book.

Welcome to Pfeiffer Treatment Center

Zinc supplements can help treat depression, ADHD, schizophrenia and other mental health problems | Extra Happiness

[redhead77]

Relief on Ritalin

Oops, sorry about that. The link I provided didn't open.

[Bruunhilde]

Relief on Ritalin

Hey Red, thanks for that, great info! The link I clicked worked - I am not surprised to see pyroluria in there, I think I have it - I have low zinc, and hair loss - but not high copper which is what pyroluria usually also measures alongside the low zinc. I'm psyched to see this might correlate and I have the zinc from the doctor sitting right here.

Let me know how the testing for your son goes.

[bleep]

Relief on Ritalin

Hey Red,

Picking your brains here if you don't mind - I've been on Ritalin for a while to combat the late afternoon somnolence, which, while it has mostly faded, is still around. It's clearly a side effect of poor sleeping; I've noticed that I don't sleep as well as I did pre-baclofen, hence the late afternoon slump. I know Ritalin isn't designed for that, but there you have it...

From the get-go, 10mg's wasn't enough, so I take 20 or 30mg's depending on how weary I think I'm going to feel. I don't do it every day, but I definitely think the efficacy is wearing off. I see above, and from what I've read as well, that there isn't a tolerance issue with repeated use, so have you any ideas or suggestions?

My doc dismisses it as a load of cobblers, and says it's still working. It's hard to believe him through the yawns sometimes though! I think he suspects me of wanting cool drugs on prescription, although where on earth he ever got that idea is beyond me?!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Relief on Ritalin

The efficacy wears off for me too. I'm taking adderall. Not for somnolence, tho it helps w that too. Doesn't work very well for me anymore. And I don't take it everyday either. Just plain wore off. Bummer. I'd be interested to know what you're very liberal doc will find for us (I mean you!) next!

[redhead77]

Relief on Ritalin

Bruun, I'm glad you saw the info. I fixed the link. Yes, pyroluria, I didn't mention it because I figured nobody would know what it was, but of course you do! My mom was diagnosed with it, by a regular MD no less. She never received adequate treatment though. It also tends to be genetic, so it will be interesting to see how my son and I test. I had a hair analysis done some years ago, and it showed that I didn't have an excess of copper. They were surprised, considering my symptoms, and the fact that I'd been on BCPs for a great deal of my reproductive years (I did have very excessive amounts of calcium though, aka a calcium shell. Much more was jacked out too, but I only went back once for the analysis and never tried to correct it...long story) Copper excess may result in zinc deficiency, but you don't have to have the excess to have the zinc deficiency. Which may hold true in both of our cases. If you ever want to be sure, I saw that Pfeiffer will be coming to southern California at the end of December and again in the beginning of February. They charge $195 for a laboratory analysis.

Bleepster, I wrote that and then did a little diving in the literature...just a little. It turns out, some people report tolerance to the stimulants. I want to remind you, however, that you aren't taking the drug for ADHD. You're taking it to combat the somnolence of baclofen. Therefore, you might be very likely to experience tolerance, as you aren't taking it to treat a medical disorder in which you really need it to correct your biochemistry. Where does that leave you? I'm not sure, but if I were you I'd talk to my doc about an extended release stimulant (I know you only need it for the afternoons, but I find this is when it peaks. Your levels won't be jumping around so much.) I would also try well planned Ritalin vacations. Maybe when you aren't working, or don't have any deadlines, try to not take it at all for a period of time. This might bring your tolerance down. Hope this helps and I'm always glad to see you!

[Bruunhilde]

Relief on Ritalin

Wow, what if you and I both had the hypertension and pyroluria? And you're a redhead, I'm sorta reddish blond brown. Pasty white. Do you have rosacea? Hmmm.

What does Pfister do in this analysis? Is it a blood test or a panel of testing (urine/blood/etc)? And do they give you a diagnosis as part of this or do you have to do follow-up for recommendations for therapy? I'd love to fix whatever is wrong in my head, for sure...