Me, myself and getting sober
You repeatedly refer to anxiety and panic in many of your posts, but you insist that it's the depression that is the fundamental root of the problem. The two things are very closely linked, obviously. But add to it that we know that anxiety disorders are directly related to addictive behaviors. This is not something that Ameisen "discovered". It's in the scientific research, and it's not a guess. It's fact. Anxiety often equals addiction, and subsequent depression.
And what's more is that the people with diagnosed anxiety disorders find it much more difficult to get and stay sober.
I was going to follow up on this thought in PM because I have no interest in being labelled as a baclofen-or-bust person again. But as a follow up to my last PM to you, and for public consumption, I'll say this:
It is clear that people who take baclofen regularly and at much lower doses than what some of us do have success with abstinence or sobriety.
I have read where you've written that you weren't sure what was different now, which medicine was helping you stick to the lager, which one was helping you go to bed with some tea and some clear-headedness.
There is only one that does that, Space. It's not the combination, it's not the other (very positive) things you are doing to get and stay well. It's baclofen.
I say that for many reasons, but NOT because I believe baclofen is such a great medicine. (I don't believe that.)
One of the reasons is that you have never actually taken baclofen regularly and for a long period of time before. Now you have. And it's working.
Another reason is because we have suggested repeatedly that super-HDB is the only way to reach indifference. I'm not so sure about that. The studies recently published have shown the opposite, though they are mostly higher than the 80mg...
I can't speak to how to manage the other issues you are dealing with, Space. But I can speak to the effectiveness of baclofen to manage drinking. And I also know it to be true that a couple of lagers of a night may make you feel lethargic and lousy and depressed. The hangovers I get from even a glass of wine are just that feeling...It's one of the reasons I drink so rarely. I hate the way I feel the next day! No headache, no obvious sign of a "hangover", just feeling lousy and depressed and...anxious.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the painkillers have that affect as well. (But I don't know for sure.) And COS is absolutely on the mark about the codeine. Acetaminophen is so bad for the liver that people without liver problems get liver problems. You can get the painkiller without the acetaminophen, by the way. That's just an aside, though, and largely beside the point I'm trying to make!
Hang in there, sister.
:h
spacebebe01;1316968 wrote: ...Why dont I not drink the lager, I panic that I will start craving vodka and thats now becoming a fear, thats a change in attitude, vodka was never a fear before it was a forbidden fruit.
The thought of leaving the estate I live on is giving me panic attacks, I have never eally got rid of the panic attacks but now the worry of them happening is causing me anxiety.
...
Im wondering what the bac is doing for me right now...
You don't want to give up the lager because you're worried you'll start to love vodka again, but you're thinking of giving up the baclofen. Do you not think that the baclofen is the only thing that is keeping you from the vodka, regardless of the lager?
One of the first 'signs' of indifference is often that people don't like their drink of choice. That was the case for me, certainly. I could not drink the wine I had lived on and for. I still can't.
spacebebe01;1316990 wrote:
Its interesting that you say you think I could go up on the baclofen when I was thinking of coming down.
....
In fact I have just answered my question, no I dont think I should because my biggest problems now are my depression and my back, so they are what I need to sort out.
The thought of leaving the estate I live on is giving me panic attacks, I have never eally got rid of the panic attacks but now the worry of them happening is causing me anxiety.
...
Im wondering what the bac is doing for me right now...
You don't want to give up the lager because you're worried you'll start to love vodka again, but you're thinking of giving up the baclofen. Do you not think that the baclofen is the only thing that is keeping you from the vodka, regardless of the lager?
One of the first 'signs' of indifference is often that people don't like their drink of choice. That was the case for me, certainly. I could not drink the wine I had lived on and for. I still can't.
spacebebe01;1316990 wrote:
Its interesting that you say you think I could go up on the baclofen when I was thinking of coming down.
....
In fact I have just answered my question, no I dont think I should because my biggest problems now are my depression and my back, so they are what I need to sort out.
And what's more is that the people with diagnosed anxiety disorders find it much more difficult to get and stay sober.
I was going to follow up on this thought in PM because I have no interest in being labelled as a baclofen-or-bust person again. But as a follow up to my last PM to you, and for public consumption, I'll say this:
It is clear that people who take baclofen regularly and at much lower doses than what some of us do have success with abstinence or sobriety.
I have read where you've written that you weren't sure what was different now, which medicine was helping you stick to the lager, which one was helping you go to bed with some tea and some clear-headedness.
There is only one that does that, Space. It's not the combination, it's not the other (very positive) things you are doing to get and stay well. It's baclofen.
I say that for many reasons, but NOT because I believe baclofen is such a great medicine. (I don't believe that.)
One of the reasons is that you have never actually taken baclofen regularly and for a long period of time before. Now you have. And it's working.
Another reason is because we have suggested repeatedly that super-HDB is the only way to reach indifference. I'm not so sure about that. The studies recently published have shown the opposite, though they are mostly higher than the 80mg...
I can't speak to how to manage the other issues you are dealing with, Space. But I can speak to the effectiveness of baclofen to manage drinking. And I also know it to be true that a couple of lagers of a night may make you feel lethargic and lousy and depressed. The hangovers I get from even a glass of wine are just that feeling...It's one of the reasons I drink so rarely. I hate the way I feel the next day! No headache, no obvious sign of a "hangover", just feeling lousy and depressed and...anxious.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the painkillers have that affect as well. (But I don't know for sure.) And COS is absolutely on the mark about the codeine. Acetaminophen is so bad for the liver that people without liver problems get liver problems. You can get the painkiller without the acetaminophen, by the way. That's just an aside, though, and largely beside the point I'm trying to make!
Hang in there, sister.
:h
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