Me, myself and getting sober

[COSGringo]

Me, myself and getting sober

I've used seroquel at low doses for sleep on rare occasion. No more than 25mg. It works well.
I never had any luck with trazadone. I have a mess of it just sitting here.

Ambien works well here and there but drops off quickly IMHO. Stay away from Lunesta unless you like the taste of a nickel on the back of your tongue for 12 hours after you wake. I can't do it as I do too much cooking.

[Bruunhilde]

Me, myself and getting sober

Space, so sorry to hear how your husband died! :l :l to you, my friend. That must have taken a chunk out of you and your sons. Was your depression there before, I assume, and only got worse when that happened? I'm so sorry. :h

[MusiciansMallet]

Me, myself and getting sober

COSGringo;1346791 wrote: Ambien works well here and there but drops off quickly IMHO. Stay away from Lunesta unless you like the taste of a nickel on the back of your tongue for 12 hours after you wake. I can't do it as I do too much cooking.

Well, the reason I suggested the drugs I did was to avoid MORE addictive drugs that would cause abstinence syndromes; which it seemed she is trying to avoid. Ambien & Lunesta are both z-drugs (or "non-benzodiazepines), but they still act on alpha-1 GABA-A sub-unit receptors & w/ long term use will give you similar withdrawal to benzos, barbiturates, & alcohol (benzodiazepines act on alpha-1, -2, -3 and -5 subunits generally speaking, if i remember correctly that is). Ambien, lunesta, and z-drugs in general will definitely cause worse withdrawal than say, risperidone or seroquel. Although w/ withdrawal from z-drugs, at least you wont experience as much rebound anxiety, since the alpha-1 sub-unit receptor of GABA-A is mostly sedative, and has less effects on anxiety. Although, you'll still get all the classic delirium tremens symptoms w/ long term and/or high dosage use of these drugs! ...Hallucinations & all!

Side note: hope the wild fires didn't burn down your house COS!

[COSGringo]

Me, myself and getting sober

Thanks MM. Getting much better out here. I think we are good with the fires now.

Never had any issues with w/d on ambien or lunesta in the very least. I mean at all. However I never used them everyday. That's a bad idea with most drugs I believe.

Seroquel is not everyone's cup of tea. I get that. Just mentioning it can work for some folks but not everyday again and only would I use it if things were bad and only one in a blue moon.

I think natural is the way to go with sleep if you can. Valerian, teas with chamomile, melatonin- things like that. They work great for a good chunk of people. Used to work for me, too. Best case is to practice good sleep hygiene but some of us are beyond that sadly.

Not sure if the neuro pharma talk will work well here. You must be in college still or on your way to a PhD. I forgot most of that stuff years ago unfortunately. It's going to be over most folks heads including mine. Good to know but tough for most folks to read through.

[MusiciansMallet]

Me, myself and getting sober

Thats the key- ya never used them daily! (Ambien, Lunesta, or any z-Drug)... just like benzodiazepines- fine for panic attacks, when taken as needed. But if taken daily- you better sure as sh*t never run out... or do a VERY SLOW wean.

And yes... sometimes I get sort of overly specific w/ the neuropharmacology of drugs--and their pharmacodynamics & such. Although my previous post was well understood, some 5 pages back by spacebebe (at least I assume it was by her response? heh)

Glad to hear things are better w/ the wild fires though!

[COSGringo]

Me, myself and getting sober

Thx! Yup my friends are getting their lives back together.

Yes those meds are dangerous used all the time. I did use ambien for a few days straight at a time for some weeks but was always concerned about rebound insomnia.

[spacebebe01]

Me, myself and getting sober

Hi MM, COS and Bruun and thanks for the replies, I dont have much problem with sleeping ususally, or havent for a long time but then over the past week I have actually had 2 nights with no sleep, because I dont work its not that much of a problem tho as I got some sllep in the day, my problem is the reverse, too much sleep. I was taking the serequel for bipolar and it was just a comment about it being scripted for sleep rather than my having taken it for sleep.

How do you know all this stuff MM? if you dont mind me asking.

I have a good evening out last night, I went with my sons, daughter and her bf for a meal at a riverfront place, it had actually stopped raining yesterday and the sun was shinning and it was great to sit and eat and then we took our drinks outside after and just chilled by the river. Got my cup of tea in bed this morning from my youngest son but he couldnt work the toaster so he brought me a piece of bread with a blob of butter and ham for breakfast:H. No real plans for the rest of the day, just going to play the birthday card out as much as I can for cups of tea etc I am talking about my sons here so it wont go far.

Glad the fires have calmed down for you COS, it must have been very worrying for everyone.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Me, myself and getting sober

spacebebe01;1347419 wrote: Got my cup of tea in bed this morning from my youngest son but he couldnt work the toaster so he brought me a piece of bread with a blob of butter and ham for breakfast.
:H That is very sweet, Space. What a nice boy.

And a belated HAPPY BIRTHDAY! I'd do the emoti, but I have spotty internet here.

Glad you're still working it.

The bipolar thing...I'm not saying you are, and I'm not saying your not, 'cause I don't know. But I have *known* you for a while now, and it doesn't sound, look, or feel like you have bipolar. At all. Not even close.

You might wonder why I would be so bold as to suggest that you don't have something the doctors think you have when I only really know you from the internet. There is a reason! You've been putting your life and your thoughts out here for some time. While it may not be your deepest darkest secrets, it's a lot of what you think and feel. Manic highs and low, low, lows...Nope, they haven't shown up here. God-complex, increased incredible paranoia. Nope, not those either. Not any of the stuff that really describes bipolar.

And if your doctors are starting from a diagnosis that doesn't really fit, and treating you for that, they might not be figuring out what really works for you.
I don't know what I don't know, and I'm not trying to confuse you or muddy the water. I hope it helps in some way. That's all.


MM and COS, I'm not sure about your conclusions in these posts:

MusiciansMallet;1346905 wrote: Thats the key- ya never used them daily! (Ambien, Lunesta, or any z-Drug)... just like benzodiazepines- fine for panic attacks, when taken as needed. But if taken daily- you better sure as sh*t never run out... or do a VERY SLOW wean.

COSGringo;1346909 wrote:
Yes those meds are dangerous used all the time. I did use ambien for a few days straight at a time for some weeks but was always concerned about rebound insomnia.

I can't speak to Ambien etc. but I can speak to benzos. There is reason to believe (A LOT of reasons actually) that regular use of benzos is no more addictive for some of us than coffee. And while almost all drugs (antidepressants, nasal decongestants, baclofen and even ibuprofen) can cause 'dependence' there is some good science and some deep thought about the fact that used regularly these things (all of them) might have a place in helping people feel and be well.

Plus, anecdotal evidence suggests that baclofen negates the dependence aspect of these drugs. Maybe not nasal decongestants (who knows? :H) but ADs and benzos for sure.

just sayin'

[spacebebe01]

Me, myself and getting sober

Thanks Ne, and its my birthday today, we went out last night because my daughter and bf are going to a christening today, Im glad we did tho because the weather was so lovely yesterday which is a one off here so I felt very lucky to be able to sit outside in the sun with my glass of coke, a full tum, my family in a nice place Very lucky indeed, you know when some things are just right

I do and kind of dont agree with the diagnosis, I think I have some mild kind of bipolar, I do think the psychiatrist is coming at it from the wrong angle, in that she just doesnt seem to want to listen to me when I am saying its my depression that is the worst thing, not mania, I dont really have mania as such, then she reels of questions and I answer yes to the mania ones but am trying to explain thats not the stuff that bothers me, she just made it sound bad, so this is why I dont want to take any anti psychotics, if I can possibly avoid it, but then I need an ad that would work, but the only one I have had that got any where near that was effexor and she bloody wont give it to me because its not a good mix with anti psychotics, in her view. So that just leaves me with citalopram again, thats better than nothing for my unwanted head shit but doesnt seem to do much for my depression.

So I havent moved on with this situation at all in like forever, in fact I think Im in a worse situation now with the shrink that I was before with just my gp because shes like a dog with a bone with these anti psychotic pills combined with citalopram.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Me, myself and getting sober

It might help to read a bit about bipolar and mania, Space. I thought I might have been bipolar for a while too, especially when I was still really struggling. Then I met a couple of people here (Billp, and all his other names, is bipolar) and I read up on what it really meant and I was/am pretty clear I've never experienced anything close to that.

That is so lovely and wonderful about your birthday dinner. I'm so glad for you. And so, so, so thankful you have worked so hard and come so far. Rock on, birthday girl.

What're you this time around? 29 again?

[COSGringo]

Me, myself and getting sober

Sounds nice Space. Always like those riverside places. Glad the weather is nice.

All is fine out here. Only in the 70's now with some rain here and there. We are getting into our monsoon season.

[StuckinLA]

Me, myself and getting sober

Happy birthday, Space. Nothing more than that at the moment.

[COSGringo]

Me, myself and getting sober

Yes, and happy birthday, again!

[spacebebe01]

Me, myself and getting sober

I have gone and lost my camera but I think my son and daughter have took some photos on their phones so I will ask them later to send me them. There was a ship on the river last night as well but I forgot to ask them to get that in the background. The River Mersey is a shipping river which the city of Liverpool was built around. The north end which has most of the docks, we live to the south which is the pretty part, where we went yesterday, there is a promanade which runs from the city centre and starts at an old docks which have been done up to make museums, apartments, shops, tourists attractions then carries on for a few miles along the river. There are two pub/restaurants down there, parkland and grass and tress really. Where I live is separated off from that part by a money people housing place who "own" there own bit of the river front so you cant get though, otherwise you could well walk for around 10 miles along the river, (selfish bastards). So anyway its a lovely place but its best to know where you are going, and dont get caught down there late of a night unless your prepared for a shock, it becomes more specific then, I dont know if you use the expression "dogging" over there but I will give you a clue. They do gay dogging, straight dogging, multiple people dogging in the car parks and park apperently. I unfortunately discovered one the the selective carparks one evening when my daughter was working in a factory, I went to meet her in her break and we got a takeaway and I drove to look for somewhere to park up and eat it. I know I can be a bit slow but we where there about 10 mins before I realised why it was so busy OMG how embarassing!!!!!

How the hell did I get off the selling it as a beautiful place to come all ye sleazeballs??

[StuckinLA]

Me, myself and getting sober

:H I think you might still be selling it, depends on the point of view. A bit of dogging doesn't sound that bad to me, at the moment. Though the sheer variety and # of options is a little overwhelming.

Whatever happened to meeting someone and being overcome by an irresistible need to touch her? To everything that follows being just a matter of course, because every part of her is a joy to behold, and every sharp intake of her breath sends little bubbles of warmth up from your fingers straight to wherever in your brain it is that feels so fucking good?

Yeah... sorry, off topic. Dogging=not bad.