Hospitalization and baclofen

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Can anyone find the thread related to the subject and bump it? Otter wrote it. It's about how to get treatment when in the hospital--specifically related to baclofen withdrawal and benzos, from what I remember?
I'm on my phone and searching is harder than starting a thread. It's kind of important.
I'm fine.
Thanks.

[RedThread12]

Hospitalization and baclofen

I don't remember Otter's thread, Ne. I do remember bits and pieces from several others. When LoOp was in the hospital #1 challenge was to get the docs to continue his HDB. #2 was that opiate-based pain-killers didn't work, and he was in extreme pain.

Then there was - I don't remember his name, but he saved my ass - who OD'd on baclofen and went to the ER. A horror story ensued from there. They administered valium instead of baclofen, which was apples and oranges and had no effect. Result being that, in the hospital, he went into full baclofen withdrawal - could not get them to give him baclofen to relieve it, had seizures, was tied down, whole bad nine yards. Wound up being in the hospital for a month.

Benzos don't work for baclofen withdrawal. Titrating down works for decreasing baclofen use. Including OD'ing on bac. Been there. Done that. Because of these threads, when I OD'd I did the most counter-intuitive thing I could imagine - I took more baclofen. Came through it in about 8-10 hours.

Whatever the reason your person is in the hospital, someone has to get an authority there to understand that benzos ARE NOT an alternative for baclofen, nor a way to decrease baclofen use. H/She should be given whatever dose of baclofen they are accustomed to. If the issue is to reduce baclofen, titrate down from there.

Someone posted asking for help because she was having bac withdrawals while in the hospital for something completely unrelated because they would not prescribe the levels she was accustomed to taking.

Those are the things I remember about baclofen and hospitals, which is why I DID NOT GO when I overdosed. You may be right - Otter may have posted something completely different, and knowing Otter, far more technical and accurate. Give him a PM.

[spacebebe01]

Hospitalization and baclofen

Can you find it if you click on otter then click on find all post from otter in the drop down? not sure if you cant do this on your phone so i will try it for you now and let you know

[spacebebe01]

Hospitalization and baclofen

or can you pm him or do you want me to, also any idea how long ago this was on its a lot of post to search through

[RedThread12]

Hospitalization and baclofen

cOffee - his name was cOffee and he made a long post about intense experiences, seizures, hallucinations, etc., when they tried to use benzos to help his bac withdrawal. I can't find the thread right now, but that's the name, if anyone can look for it.

The thing that impressed me most was that, even after all that, which took a month to resolve, he came back to MWO and was determined to reach his switch with baclofen.

[gotta stop]

Hospitalization and baclofen

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...elf-48134.html
Dont know if this works

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Hospitalization and baclofen

Thanks so much, folks. No one is in the hospital. As you pointed out, it's to be avoided. But it might be necessary.
I am home now and will go looking. It was right around then, RedT and related. Otter found a study, some research.

Bluto;1210149 wrote: Ne/neva

There is no way that a benzo will not cure a baclofen withdrawal if properly dosed. Its just not possible, unless given likek 5 mg of valium when a 40mg IV push is needed lol
Interestingly, Bluto, that is exactly what the situation is. Benzos do not work for bac withdrawal. I'll find it. Everyone on HDB should have a copy. I made my husband put one in each car and keep one at work. (Yes, I was a bit dramatic. And very scared. And pretty silly. But not about that!)

gotta stop;1210164 wrote: https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...elf-48134.html
Dont know if this works

It worked. Thanks, Gotta! Great to *see* you! Hope you're well. We're due for an update...

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Hospitalization and baclofen

hmmm. I think he may have erased it. hmmmm.

Terryk, do you remember the study I'm talking about?

I'm going to have to pull out my trusty bac notebook! The one I compiled while on super-HDB. Might take me a week to find that particular thing. But everyone on HDB should be aware!

[terryk]

Hospitalization and baclofen

Bluto;1210170 wrote: dude, the guys a freaking liar lol
none of that story makes an ounce of medical sense
"they put me out with propanolol... because the phenobarbital wasnt touching it"

Yeah so he got knocked out with a betablocker as a last resort, my arse.
The WHOLE of the story is rubbish lol

The whole story is quite true - he probably meant propofol, not propanolol. GABAa agents will not not touch GABAb withdrawal unless given in 10X-100X strengths that is given in GABAa withdrawal. Haloperidol is often used as well. Cyproheptadine shows promise as well, but nothing works like reinstituting the GABAb agent. It's all over the medical literature and I have done extensive research on it. I have also been hospitalized for baclofen overdose/psychosis and my dose was vastly restricted which induced withdrawal. I don't have the time right now, but I will post more in detail later if anyone would like specifics.

-tk

[terryk]

Hospitalization and baclofen

Bluto;1210140 wrote: I dont get it, scientifically how does a benzodiazepine not help with baclofen withdrawal?
Not to be a dick, far from it. I just cant wrap my head around using a benzodiazepine and it NOT being effective for baclofen withdrawal, seeing how it is the gold standard for GABA withdrawals, much better than baclofen

Bluto;1210149 wrote: Ne/neva
What they should do is put your friend on a long acting benzo such chlordiazepoxide (librium) or diazepam (valium) anything with a long half life.

I dont know about the other stuff, but benzos bind to the GABAa receptor and decrease the excitability of of the GABA system at a much higher level than a GABAb such as baclofen.
Baclofen is the kid brother to Valium or Xanax.
There is no way that a benzo will not cure a baclofen withdrawal if properly dosed. Its just not possible, unless given likek 5 mg of valium when a 40mg IV push is needed lol

Bluto;1210162 wrote: Well people on the interwebs can spin a yarn, thats for sure. Its still not possible lol.
Maybe he was overdosing on cough medicine at the time or truly is schizophrenic

But you cant selectively blame a GABAb when you can decrease the excitability of the WHOLE GABA system with a benzo
It makes no sense whatsoever. The treatment for baclofen withdrawal is a benzo, its faster and better than baclofen alone. Its well proven, anectdotes aside

I'll bow out of this one though, I am here to have fun you guys are in charge on this stuff

Bluto;1210170 wrote: dude, the guys a freaking liar lol
none of that story makes an ounce of medical sense
"they put me out with propanolol... because the phenobarbital wasnt touching it"

Yeah so he got knocked out with a betablocker as a last resort, my arse.
The WHOLE of the story is rubbish lol

Bluto;1210181 wrote: no dude, I know its a lie b/c I wrote the damn thing when I was shitfaced and I made no sense after reading it
It's not real, I was drunk when I wrote it

I don't know what to think right now about you. There is *absolute* truth to what *I* said: Benzos will not touch (possibly and barely only at extreme dose) Baclofen withdrawal, and you *may* still find yourself in a hospital ER someplace where a doctor will not be able to give you HDB, because they are unaware of it's use or because you are unconscious and there is *no* currently available liquid formulation for IV use.

-tk

p.s. I'm off to the gym and away from this place for a while. Bluto - learn a little bit about GABAb/Baclofen on wikipedia and learn how to search MEDLINES with PubMed. If you've actually left bullshit posts on the forum, do us all a favor and clean them off for the rest of us to not step in them.

[Otter]

Hospitalization and baclofen

I think this is what you are looking for: Taking Baclofen - Baclofen UK
Then there is the Minnesota study:
Alcohol Withdrawal - Baclofen UK


Sorry Bluto, on this TK is right. Benzos don't work for Baclofen withdrawal. Been there, watched it happen. It may sound like fantasy land but that is where Baclofen takes you. And you just have to click your heels to get there!

[terryk]

Hospitalization and baclofen

Bluto;1210196 wrote: no Terryk, you are living a fantasy
To think that a high dose benzo cannot replace a high dose of baclofen is like "Dorothy not in Kansas" type stuff
It all boils down to the "excitability of the neurons in the GABA system"
Baclofen is a "weak" player in the game
Benzodiazepines are a "STRONG" player in the game. Baclofen works on basic level stuff like spasticity. Benzos work on the whole GABA system A and B
Thats why its so great for panic attacks, seizures, alcohol withdrawal, baclofen withdrawal, it works on all withdrawals except for opiioids

The whole thing is a fantasy. Baclofen is not better than a benzo at all. Baclofen works on a mild level and has its benefits, meaning nonaddictive.
This is stuff is just nonsense, benzos ARE the treatment for high dose baclofen withdrawal which is as rare as rockinghorse poop

Im out, Ill see you guys/gals in the Neverending Story forum
Benzodiazepines work on GABAa receptors only. It's true that they are used to treat baclofen withdrawal in high, sometimes continuous infusions, but adjunct drugs like propofol and haloperidol (and possibly cyproheptadine) are often required. It's important to keep in mind, that most of the literature mentions that kind of extreme treatment for intracathecal baclofen withdrawal - low dose oral baclofen withdrawal is on on the very other (lower) end of the spectrum - who knows where high dose (oral) baclofen fits in (somewhere in the middle).

This journal article: Baclofen and Gamma-Hydroxybutyrate Withdrawal
(free full-text) observes that benzodiazepines are ineffective in treating GHB withdrawal (GHB is a GABAb and GHB receptor agonist), and baclofen (also a GABAb agonist) is probably a much more suitable treatment.

This article: Behavioral Analyses of GHB: Receptor Mechanisms (free full-text) discusses the intricacies between GABAa vs. GABAb and baclofen and GHB.

Maybe there's some speculation and extrapolation that have played a part in saying that benzos aren't effective for baclofen withdrawal. I wonder how much cOffee's (your?) story played a part in that. I still don't think that the verdict is in or if it is all that simple.

Bluto;1210196 wrote:
baclofen withdrawal which is as rare as rockinghorse poop

Im out, Ill see you guys/gals in the Neverending Story forum

Baclofen withdrawal is very real, you will absolutely experience it if you use a regular dose of baclofen daily for more than a couple of months and quit cold turkey.

You accuse me of living a fantasy when you claim to have fabricated an elaborate story on this forum that affected a great many people and changed the way they saw baclofen (as possibly more dangerous then they had imagined). -tk

EDIT: This is not a smackdown, and I don't like the cheerleading.

[_serenity_]

Hospitalization and baclofen

*

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Hospitalization and baclofen

:H Nice to see you Sere! woop!

Thanks so much Otter. I'm here with my friend now, and I think I'll be able to print that out and save it for another time.

Cheers, peeps.
:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Hospitalization and baclofen

terryk;1210238 wrote: But then again if we took it to the frat house, your Game analogy - "Baclofen weak player/Benzodiazepines STRONG player" would probably beat my literature citations everytime, um, *brodawg*.

....

EDIT: This is not a smackdown, and I don't like the cheerleading.

Hmmm. I'll take this down and offline. But ftr. hmmm. Brodawg? Not a smackdown?

It's nice to have a resident smarty pants who is also a bit of a smart alec. And that was funny. It is hard to come across as simply laughing, not laughing at. However, when someone is right, and is a smart ass about it, it's hard not to laugh at...
So. Didn't mean to cheerlead, this time or last. Especially not last. But if you're not playing "I'm smarter than you so shut the * up," then, well, don't.