Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

[Greg]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Thanks again everyone for the help and advice here.

Ne, thank you for giving your honest thoughts on things. Please don't delete your message, as it is not offensive in any way whatsoever.

It's interesting that there is research saying that naltrexone is effective by itself, and I'm interested at looking into the sources you mention. I must admit I haven't been keeping up with all the medications lately like I used to.

I have read so many TSM devotees saying that nal can never work outside their method, just as many said high dose baclofen could almost never fail and had almost no side effects. I think, when people with something so hard to treat as alcohol dependence find a new idea, they naturally want to shout it from the rooftops, but unfortunately they can also dismiss ideas that are different. I have fallen into that same trap, with my own 'different' ideas such as cannabis substitution (which I said had virtually cured me) and using various strong sedatives as alcohol substitutes. I did delete my own post naming all the drugs I thought could substitute for alcohol, as I had become concerned that lurkers and newcomers could go out and actually try such things without any medical knowledge or supervision (and while likely to mix alcohol with such drugs).

I have ordered some baclofen from Virtuous Labs, to have another shot at it. A doctor here in Australia is willing to prescribe it, but only to a maximum of 100 mg per day. I will probably stay on Campral and Antabuse while starting back on baclofen, as I can get those prescribed. I will also be switching from Xanax to Valium under that same doctor's supervision, as I am relying too heavily on the Xanax and finding its short half life too troublesome. Even when spread out, the peaks and troughs in its levels cause me emotional difficulties, especially anxiety. Valium has never done this. I could use baclofen to fill in the gaps I suppose, and just stay on Xanax, but Valium has been more successful for me in the past. I'm also trying to steer clear of cannabis these days as much as possible, and may taper off both Campral and benzodiazepines once on a higher dose of baclofen.

I am pretty sure that abstinence, at least from alcohol, is the best goal for me, although control would certainly be better than 20 standard drinks at night! One of my mates is right now drinking himself into his grave, at levels of 25-35 per session, and another friend is in even worse shape. This, and reading about the final stages of alcoholism, puts a lot of fear into me. With me, once drinking at night, a part of my mind just wants me to get drunk. It always happens, although strangely enough I can have a drink or two during the day and not want any more. I have never taken baclofen while drinking, and it would be amazing to me if it did allow control, and allow freedom from the obsession to be drunk/high at night.

Thanks very much for the encouragement. I have decided to try Dr Ameisen's original titration, as he has written in his book. Dr Levin is too far from here and in a different time zone obviously. I'll see how I go doing it Dr A's way anyhow.

Thanks Bminor and Redhead too, I wish everyone here all the best with overcoming alcohol dependence. Sorry again for a long post.

Greg xxx

[new again]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

I'm sorry to be coming to this so late. There are a couple of people here who have had success with Nal and abstinence. One is Wonka (she only posted a few times) and Noelle. I also think that ReneeSmiles had good luck with Vivitrol, although maybe she was drinking at low levels at the same time.

For reference purposes, the only name that I'm confident that I've spelled correctly is Wonka. The others might be wrong.

[windycitylady]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Greg, I hate when you apologize for "long posts"! I relate so much to what you're going through, and love reading your not really that long posts. That said, I am going to apologize in advance for what is probably going to be a long and rambling post.
I don't really have the ability to go to a doctor. I am uninsured and make just enough money to not qualify for any kind of assistance. So, I end up playing "Dr. Windy" with mixed results.
I have not found the gabapentin to decrease in effectivenes over time. I never had any initial side effects of drowsiness or the like, so I can't comment on those decreasing or disapearing. It has helped me immensely with depression and anxiety. I've mentioned this elsewhere, but my father battles extremely medication resistant depression. The best success he's had are with a very high dose of gabapentin and very high dose of wellbutrin. He's under the care of an extremely well respected psychiatrist, so I trust that though unconventional, this is safe. My dad has encouraged me to start wellbutrin, which I may do, but right now I don't want to add any more medications unless they're absolutley necessary.
The gabapentin does help, but I do still find myself very depressed. I take tryptophan, but only 500mg. I would like to increase to 1000 or even 1500 as you suggested, but it's $20 a bottle (30 or 60 pill? I can't remember), and I already feel guilty for the money I spend on supplements and medications. By the way, I just achieved "VIP status" at Vitamin Shoppe for spending over $1000 there in one year. That's depressing unto itself. I get a $50 gift certificate. Yay, I guess.
I did try HDB. I think you popped in during that journey. I do believe in it, but currently cannot pursue that course of action. I did find that bac decreased cravings, but I also believe it worsened my depression. Like you, I'm constantly monitoring my moods and trying to figure out what helps and what hurts. I think I went down too quickly on the bac and went absofuckinglutley crazy. Massive anxiety like I've never experienced before. It was devastating. I'm finally coming out of it now. I don't blame bac, just my poor judgement about how to go down. After going down to 25 or 50mg a day, my cravings were significantly increased. I'm now taking 75mg, and that seems to help somewhat.
Which brings me to naltrexone. I should confess that I really don't know dick about TSM. I could very easily research it, but I haven't. My goal is abstinence, and I don't see why nal wouldn't help by itself. Like I mentioned before, I was thinking of this exactly when you started this thread. When I took it so many years ago, I remember being blown away by the way it changed how I felt about alcohol. I would see alcohol and not get that heart pounding urgency I was so accustomed to. I could look in a refrigerator and see all the contents at once, not just the beer. I could look down a street and see every store, not just the liquor store. I remember thinking, this is how normal people feel. I don't know why I stopped it. Probably because I was 21 and an alcoholic and missed get wasted. I think I've heard people say that there is a honeymoon period with nal, and the effects change over time. I hope that's not the case. I also saw that you thought it might of made you depressed. That is a listed side effect ("suicidal thoughts"), and that scares me too. I've been looking online, and it is not cheap. I think the best I've found is $1.68/ pill. Like I said, I hate spending money and taking another pill each day, but if it would help, it might be worth it.
So, you did try HDB before and it didn't work for you? How high are you planning to go on bac this time? When you were taking nal and doing TSM, did you feel a marked decrease in craving? I'm thinking of getting some antabuse too, but again, it's pretty expensive and harder to find.
I have read "Kick the Drink" and "Rational Recovery" recently, and I like the ideas. But at the end of the day, I have to acknowledge that I have fucked up my brain through years of daily drinking. Like really actually physically changed the way my brain works. And that needs to be addressed before I can start to employ the ideas in these books.
I was thinking about you taking the motion sickness medicine for the dizzy effect. I have strange little fiendish rituals too. I've been taking kudzu recently, supposedly to help with cravings. I also know, however, that when taken while drinking, kudzu is thought to increase the blood alcohol concentration in the brain (you'll have to double check my science, it's something like that.) When I take the kudzu an hour before getting home, it helps with cravings. When I take it right before drinking, it makes me more drunk. So I take it right before drinking. Of course.
Well. You now have no reason to apologize for a long post again.
Thanks for making it through this. Hope I didn't seem too self-obsessed, I just wanted to let you know what I've tried and where I'm coming from. I really want to be able to follow you and communicate with you on this journey. Hope you're doing ok. Thanks again!

[Greg]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Hi Windy, thanks for your thoughts and experiences. Interesting gabapentin and naltrexone information. Yes all these supplements and drugs get expensive after a while!

My alcohol cravings have always been due to a specific desire to experience its drug effects, as a nightly escape from depression, anxiety, and even reality. I am strangely indifferent to seeing alcohol in shops, pubs, clubs, etc and was able to go into drinking places and even talk to drinkers while I was off it for 19 months. I am still able to do this without feeling strong urges to drink, although it can be harder during evenings. Even the smell of beer or other types of alcohol doesn't set me off. In this way I am different to any other alcoholic I have ever read about, despite having been at a level of 20 standard drinks every night for over a year, and up around 15-18 nearly every night for many years. My cravings come about due to sudden changes in my mood and/or anxiety levels, particularly if these happen during late afternoon, but if I know I have some other substance such as cannabis to use, there is no specific alcohol craving. It's just a generalized craving to become high/intoxicated.

This, really, is probably my main reason for being interested in both naltrexone (taken sober) and high dose baclofen. Both treatments have been mentioned as being useful for various drug addictions, not only alcohol. I did experience less desire to keep on drinking some nights when I was trying naltrexone, but other nights I'd try to deliberately drink more if feeling depressed to try and get a high. I still felt physically drunk and sedated if I drank very much on naltrexone. I also tried high dose baclofen a couple of times, and experienced some relief of cravings for substances generally on my way up, but severe insomnia ended up being an obstacle. I have only ever taken either 75 or 100 mg in one day, I can't recall which it was. Insomnia will sound a pathetic reason to have given up on the treatment, but when I go for more than a few days without sleep, my depression gets severe and I am a total zombie. In that state, I lose all motivation and energy to keep trying. I'm hoping a slower increase in dose this time may reduce a lot of this. I am hoping to go up to whatever level may eliminate my general need-to-get-high attitude, but I also know I need other treatment here, such as some type of counseling and an effective antidepressant treatment of some sort (have tried nearly all of them with zero benefits).

At present I am finding Antabuse + Campral + Xanax helpful, but also finding Xanax a difficult drug to use without any other relaxant substance. It is something I can now see myself getting hooked on if I had nothing else, but fortunately baclofen may be able to fill in for it. Xanax is quite short acting, and there is a temptation to use more in between scheduled doses...also a temptation to bunch it up at night for relaxation and sleep, which means withdrawals can come on during the day as it wears off. I have not tried Kudzu although have read about it.

Hopefully I have answered all your points, have to get going just at the moment. All the best for now!

[bleep]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Bah, typed a long post and lost it.

What I was saying is that HDB has greatly lessened my desire to get out of my head.

Wow, I'm actually pleased the last post got lost, I was trying to say exactly that, but took about 4 paragraphs!

Also, the insomnia passes, although it can be extreme while it lasts.

Like others, I'm impressed by your constant efforts Greg. Best of luck!

[windycitylady]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Maybe this thread is jinxed. Just lost my post too. More likely, I just don't know how to use my new phone. Well, short on time now because of that. I think I understand about your addiction not being specific to alcohol. I can be the same way, it's just that alcohol has always worked best and been the easiest to obtain. I know you're not happy with the xanax and thinking of switching to valium or eliminating the benzos entirely with baclofen, but I would kill for some benzos. I think it would help me get over that last hump with going abstinent. What antidepressant do you think you'll try next? Have you ever been on wellbutrin?
Not a very profound post, I know, but gotta run. Hope you're doing well.

[Greg]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Thanks Bleep and Windy. I have found that posts will still actually be posted if the site says you need to log back in, as long as you log straight back in. Occasionally it will say you don't have permission and need to refresh the page, in which case you may lose what you wrote. These days I highlight all I have written, before posting it, then select Copy, which puts it into the computer's clipboard (memory). Then, log in, and if your post was lost, just select the Post Reply option again, put the mouse cursor into the reply box, and right click, then select Paste. That will paste all you wrote into the box...then hit on Submit straight away and it should be posted.

I did try Wellbutrin but had some odd, almost psychotic thinking at the time (I am not normally psychotic), but I had also gone back to alcohol at the time, so I think it could have been an alcohol-Wellbutrin interaction. I have read about dangers of psychosis with both the drug alone, and with it plus alcohol. I am going to try it again, and it should actually compliment the L-tryptophan I am taking rather than clash with it...I hope.

I still think benzos can be very useful, but maybe not a short-acting one used alone (for me anyway). I had no trouble with Xanax when using cannabis at the same time, but this time without any cannabis I did notice quite annoying withdrawals in between doses if the doses were spaced more than about 8-12 hours apart. I did a test with an equivalent dose of Valium instead of Xanax yesterday afternoon and found it way, way smoother and more helpful. On the other hand Xanax is probably better at night if a sleep drug is needed, as it doesn't linger on all next day.

Edit : I should have said I had LESS problems with Xanax while also using cannabis. I still used to get some withdrawals from it, but I had been taking my entire 1 mg dose all at night as a sleep drug, and none at all during the day. I could never get away with doing that now, with no cannabis. Although cannabis is obviously not a benzo, it somehow filled in the gaps. I don't recommend cannabis, by the way, just pointing out what I had done.

If the Wellbutrin is still a problem, I will likely do a gabapentin trial for a month or so, while still taking L-tryptophan.

[penelope67]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Hi Everyone, Andrea here...just reading your posts make me see I am not the only one going through this crazy medication festival. Greg I know you originally asked about Naltrexone for cravings. I only took it WHEN I drank and it worked for that for the most part. It's possible Low Dose Naltrexone taken daily could be good but I never took it that way. Someone asked about where to buy it cheaply. I get most things from #1 Online Pharmacy/Drugstore-Overseas Internet On-Line Pharmacy-Buy Prescription Drugs Without Prescription!. Right now they are having a small sale on Naltrexone 50 mg 90 tabs $256.00 ($2.84 p/pill). They are located in Bangkok. I have gotten other stuff from them and never had a problem. Even when I wanted to return something I decided not to use they let me mail it back and let me have a credit. They were very kind. I have so much to say about everything I don't want to just blather on here. I am still drinking, and in a fairly intense crisis trying to slow it down with Baclofen, alcohol and Topomax... I think the question is: is it cravings or anxiety? those are two very different things. I am reading Olivier Amiesen's book. As I read it i am either laughing or crying.

[MWOLady]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Wanted to jump in here as I think this thread has sort of finished it's run. But if anyone out there is interested, I think I'll start taking Naltrexone for cravings to see if it works. I ordered lots of it and was using TSM but found that after a while I was drinking right through it.

I'm choosing to stop drinking altogether so will be using Nal as an anti craving med. And I'll post often with progress or lack of same. Others might want to try it too.

I'm afraid of Topamax because of the hair loss as my hair is very thin already. And bac is something that I'm afraid of too - I don't want to have to experience the side effects and I know it will have to be taken forever - way too expensive as I have to order on line.

Anyway, I want to keep this Naltrexone thread going for a few weeks.

[Heavy Fuel]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

How long was it before you began drinking through the naltrexone? In total, how long did you follow TSM?

[PJS]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

You may want to check NIH or other medical research archives for studies on naltrexone. An individual is simply anecdotal evidence.

Vivitrol is super expensive, and has to be taken every month. The implant would seem to be the same, every year, a new implant. I can't see how they differ from dosage orally.

PJS, where did you hear of deaths on naltrexone?

EDIT: I did a good bit of googling about nal and death. What I found was opiod dependent and people who did the implant seem to have issues. Nothing concerning nal and alcohol.

PJS if you have other sources, I would be very interested in reading them.

Heavy Fuel, It was several years ago and the deaths could have been opioid related. I was drinking while I was taking Naltrexon and felt shaky, buzzed and freaked out. Besides the se it didn't seem to help me quit.

[MWOLady]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

More on Nal not using TSM

Heavy Fuel, just saw your post. I was on TSM for 2 years. It did help but it turned out not to be the right thing for me. Simply because you have to keep drinking while taking the Nal in that method. And I found that I just kept taking the Nal, and kept drinking.

After a while I just left out the Nal part and kept drinking. I was able to have great control, I must say for the most part. Although I did get drunk a few times, usually I was able to have such control that I never had more than 2 glasses of wine.

Over time though I could see that abstinence was the best thing for me. I drank every night, even though it was only a small amount - but was just as addicted as I always was. That's why I was wondering about taking the leftover Nal I have everyday as a craving med. I have been AF for two days now, using Nal .50 and 5HTP, and L-glut. Seems to be helping but of course I can't tell just what it is that's working!!! But as I don't want to have all this Nal just sitting there - it was very expensive! so I'll keep taking it for cravings.

I find that the 5HTP and GABA for sleep is working, and I guess keeping cravings at bay too. I'm posting in What We Believe and Newbies Nest and I'll report progress there. I'd be happy to hear your experiences with TSM.

[sufi]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Thank you, thank you so much for all this encouraging info! After many, many years of rather heavy drinking, I received today my first package of Naltrexone. It is lying in front of my computer and I already think of it as my saviour. Today it had a placebo effect on me now it is here I dont experience any craving at all! Of course I know better - I am a hopeless acoholic. But now, armed with Naltrexone and silimarin and vitamins and whey and a bunch of advisors and future friends, I feel hopeful for the first time.

[MWOLady]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

Sufi, there is no such thing as a hopeless alcoholic!!!! Get that notion out of your head, right now! We are all here as proof positive that there is always HOPE. We all struggle. We all have good days and bad days, but all of us move forward. And I think I can safely say that we all learn from each good/bad experience.

Please start taking your Naltrexone. Try the Sinclair Method and that means one hour before you drink take .50mg and never drink without it. You may be amazed at how you are able to step back and look at your situation with new hopeful eyes.

Then you can decide which way you want to go - moderate or completely forget drinking. Good luck to you - and have hope!!

[Nutshell]

Does anyone know of ANY cases in which naltrexone ALONE (not via TSM) helped cravings

This is interesting, because I thought that the whole idea of TSM is that Naltrexone does not work without alcohol. Well TSM didn't work for me, so I'll be watching your progress, MWOLady.

Also, for anyone else thinking of trying the Sinclair Method - please do! Go over to the Sinclair Method forums and see how many people have achieved amazing results with it.

thesinclairmethod.com • Index page

If Baclofen doesn't work for me, I'm probably going to try TSM again. I only tried it for 5 months the first time around.