Sabby's Progress Thread

[RudyB]

Sabby's Progress Thread

i highly recommend extra sleep for the tired problem! i've been struggling with it too, and wondering if it's bac related. i don't think i'll have an answer, though, until i get more sleep!

i'll have to get a microwave to make the brittle recipe you're speaking of. i'm not inclined to do that, though. i've been happy with my cast iron skillets and my oven my whole life.

[Bruunhilde]

Sabby's Progress Thread

Hi Sabby, I just got caught up on your thread, and Rudy's right, GTs the best. You can make a mother from it if you neglect it enough. I actually liked it right away, but that's because I drink gross stuff like my raw green smoothie and my All-One phyto with water drink. Funny how tastebuds adjust over time. Right now wine tastes awful and beer tastes good. The wine is too sweet, even the dry wine. Good job on going AF, its a great feeling, isn't it? I too worry about going back and forth forever on the AL. I was lurking near the O'Douls the other day, think your thread has convinced me to buy some next time.

[Greg]

Sabby's Progress Thread

Sabby, regarding sleep...for me, broken sleep is very common any time I have gone back to drinking a large amount at night then cut down or stopped again. It seems to rapidly set up a tolerance, so that I can then only keep getting a decent amount of sleep with a large amount of alcohol or some other sedative in me. It can take a number of weeks for this to settle back down once I stop drinking. I think that large amounts of any sedating substance taken regularly at night can set up a form of tolerance, so that a lesser amount (or none) is then not enough to allow a solid night's sleep. It is very annoying, but also a good motivator to help me stop relapsing, as I know I will have to go through the whole thing again if I give in to alcohol.

This is just my story, but I thought I'd share it in case this is what is happening with your sleep. I have occasionally used non-addictive, non-GABA-agonist drugs to help sleep (doxylamine, trazodone, L-tryptophan, gabapentin), but even these have to be rotated so tolerance doesn't build to them. It's best to be able to get decent sleep again without any substances, if possible. I hope you get back to a regular pattern soon.

[SabbyATL]

Sabby's Progress Thread

@Rudy - I'm going to try to get some sleep tonight! As for the microwave vs oven/cast iron, I normally agree. But it was soooooo easy to make this in the microwave, and easy clean up. The biscotti, though, was my gas oven all the way!

@Bruun - Well, tonight I went and got myself another bottle of GT and a six pack of Clausthaler. Thursday nights are traditionally a big drinking night for me. Top that with the fact I went over my handlebars on my bike on my ride home...normally a set up for a six pack of Terrapin Hopsecutioner (7.2%). So I was definitely craving it! Plus, I wanted to try the Clausthaler to know if I should bring it to the caroling party on Saturday. I'm having one now and it's a decent imitation of real beer, albeit not really great beer. I can tell it's AF but it still has a beer flavor.

But I think the GT will grow on me.

@Greg - thanks for sharing your experiences. I think because I am on such a low low dose of bac right now that my problems with sleep are because I've been sober for going on 4 days after 3 weeks of nightly heavy drinking. Once my sleep normalizes I will cherish it because I don't usually require a lot of sleep - 5 hours a night is plenty for me. And being completely sober and well-rested will probably feel so good!

I've never found L-tryptophan to have an effect on me and I won't take real sleeping meds because I have sleep-walking issues (already exacerbated by booze) and many of them are contraindicated for sleepwalkers.

Thanks, all, for your responses!

I just took a whole 10mg dose of bac. Decided against baking tonight. Going to watch the Falcons play tonight, enjoy my AF beer, and go to bed early.

Got another run at 6:30a tomorrow.

[SabbyATL]

Sabby's Progress Thread

Well, If you don't count the NA beer then last night was AF. I'm not sure it really counts because I did drink that whole 6-pack of the course of the evening, which ended up being like the amount of Al in 3/4 of a regular beer. But I never had a buzz. I was kicking them back out of habit.

I DID not get to bed early. My husband had a friend visiting and he didn't leave until 12:10. So I was asleep for 12:30.

I am working from home today, with no particular deadlines. I can actually work until about 6:30p before I have to stop to go to a party. So, if I need a nap I can break up my 8-hr workday into pre and post-nap.

The good news is that I slept with unbroken sleep last night. Just wish I could have slept until 7am instead of 5am.

[Cassander]

Sabby's Progress Thread

SabbyATL;1227292 wrote: Well, If you don't count the NA beer then last night was AF. I'm not sure it really counts because I did drink that whole 6-pack of the course of the evening, which ended up being like the amount of Al in 3/4 of a regular beer. But I never had a buzz. I was kicking them back out of habit.

Sabby, between you and me...I wouldn't count the Clausthaler... Maybe you took in the AL in 3/4 of a beer, more likely it was equivalent to the AL in half a beer...over what 3 to 4 hours? That's like an eighth of a beer an hour...

I read an article just now that says there is as much AL in orange juice...

Anyhoot (as Ruby says) reducing your AL intake from say 6 beers to half a beer should help minimize the SEs (atleast those SEs that are related to keeping on drinking) as you titrate up.

As I mentioned earlier I have had good luck with NA beer post-quitting, but I acknowledge I am in a small minority. I have no craving for the real deal if I drink an O'Doul's or, my favorite, a Beck's NA. But most alcoholics disagree, NA beer is just too risky.

Nevertheless, as a device to reduce AL intake while titrating up? Why not? Anybody disagree?

Lastly, I know that many alcoholics are opposed to the NA beers because there is still up to 0.05% alcohol remaining. Out of curiosity, I googled around and discovered that Kirin has recently introduced a product called Kirin Free which is 0.00% alcohol. Here's a link: Kirin FREE :: Kirin Brewery of America They have just started importing it into the US but at this point its only available in Southern California. They are advertising it to various groups, including pregnant women and golfers and drivers, but not yet to alcoholics

Cass

[SabbyATL]

Sabby's Progress Thread

Hi Cassander,

I tend to agree, overall. I didn't get a buzz at all but I got a nice mental feeling from having some beer while I was baking holiday goods. So the psychological component was satisfied. And it didn't trigger cravings for the real stuff.

So I guess for me, it will be okay. Because, honestly, one of the things that depresses me about being AF is not having beer.

I'm going to try the Beck's for tomorrow's party. I liked the Clasusthaler but I want try my options.

As 0.0% beer, I've heard of that. There are some German brands that are the same. But they don't sell them in my grocery store. I'll have to check out the big liquor stores for that.

And I'm not at all worried about going into a liquor store and getting triggered. I'm always triggered to buy beer or wine. And if I run out of that and I'm not passed out then I tend to start cracking open the liquor we have around the house.

-----

As an update, my running partner emailed be at 6am and said she was too tired and could we run at 3:30pm instead. So I went back to bed and slept until 10am!!!!

So, I have, for once, missed a portion of my work day because of Al. Well, because of bac. But now I feel rested. I'm going to work a half day and then go run, and then cook for a dinner party I have tonight.

[SabbyATL]

Sabby's Progress Thread

So I did go run at 3:30 but the first mile and a half sucked. I've been switching over to minimalist running shoes and every time I get more minimalist my calves and achilles are stiff and sore for a few days. But, it's always good to go for a run. I never finish thinking I could have done something better.

Then I went home and cooked a green bean casserole for my dinner party.

I got a 6-pack of Odoul's to bring to the party.

Everyone else there was drinking and a few were all out drunk and while a small part of me wanted some real wine a bigger part of me didn't want to drive home drunk or to even be drunk. I was at this part without my family so having them home to go to probably helped.

But I did stay up until 2am watching movies on Netflix.

I actually think this is a good thing. Time I used to spent passed out I am not using doing something more interactive. Next thing I know, maybe I will be writing the next great American novel! Ha ha!

Happy Saturday, everyone! I'm going to go have a cuddle with the husband, then spend the day cooking and baking. We have a big huge neighborhood caroling party tonight. I usually get ripped at this party, along with just about everyone else. But I'll bring some Beck's and just enjoy the food and the company.

[Bruunhilde]

Sabby's Progress Thread

Hi Sabby, sounds like you're doing well! I'll go get some Claustenhaler today.

[Cassander]

Sabby's Progress Thread

SabbyATL;1228070 wrote: ...I actually think this is a good thing. Time I used to spent passed out I am not using doing something more interactive. Next thing I know, maybe I will be writing the next great American novel! Ha ha!

But Sabs --- You ARE writing the next great American autobiography! And what a great story it will be for your husband to read and then to pass down to your kids for when they are old enough to read it...

Digression: I am convinced there is an extraordinary story to be written in the discovery of baclofen and the ensuing treatment and recovery by you, Sabby, and all the others on this board.

After Dr A published his extraordinary report...there was a flurry of self-medication as reported on these boards in spite of the virtually total absence of medical support. Absence of medical support for a disease condition which, mind you, "is the number one healthcare problem in the United States".

According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, alcohol and drug abuse is the number one healthcare problem in the United States, representing approximately 3.7% of the Gross National Product. As much as $185 billion each year is spent directly and indirectly related to alcoholism. It is estimated that in the United States and Europe, there are in excess of 22 million alcoholics and 2.0 million heroin addicts. According to the Office of National Drug Control Policy, in the United States, there are an estimated 5 to 6 million cocaine addicts. Substance abuse can have severe social and medical consequences, including imprisonment, car accidents, overdose, liver failure, infections such as HIV and viral hepatitis, and death. In addition, the National Institute of Health estimated that $246 billion dollars is lost each year in the United States due to absenteeism and lost productivity at work related to alcohol and drug abuse.

So, there is a huge amount of money to be saved if a cure can be found. And right here on this board the experiment is being carried out, individually, with group mutual support, but largely outside the care of a physician and without the support of government health care, organized medicine, Big Pharma or the drug and alcohol rehabilitation community. It is truly an extraordinary story which must someday be told to a wider audience.

So Sabs, by all means, keep writing! You are writing history!

Cassander

(And PS, saving money is something that this government whould be all over. Talk about sweet spot...)

[suneelca]

Sabby's Progress Thread

Hi, Sabby. Seems like your sleep issue is related to going AF, rather than the Bac?

I recall that you're a quantitative, scientific type. I'm in health information technology, one dimensions of which is what's known as the 'quantified self' movement. This is a high falutin' term for activity monitoring. In this case, I have taken to sleep monitoring in the form of the Zeo Sleep Manager. I knew that Bac was taking a toll on my sleep, but over the past three nights, my 'z-score' (quality of sleep), based on a 0 to 100 scale, has been

Weds 18
Thurs 30
Fri 30

This is based on a composite of deep sleep, REM sleep, time awake, and times woken. Last night, it indicated that I was awake for 3:33 of the 7.5 hours I was asleep.

Gosh, I wonder why I'm experiencing this whacky somnolence? The Zeo includes personalized sleep coaching -- you record your results on an SD card, and then upload to Zeo's Web site, which then coaches you through sleep improvement techniques (not have caffeine less than six hours before bed, moderate AL use). Do people who titrate back down or otherwise stabilize their dose and see the SEs pass then also see the insomnia recede? I'm amazed that I can be even semi-coherent in these posts ...

[Bruunhilde]

Sabby's Progress Thread

S & S, sorry about your sleep issues.

I've had good luck the past week using a hypnotherapy recording for sleep. It doesn't really feel like its putting me to sleep, I'm awake enough to turn off the MP3 player, but then when I do sleep shortly after, I tend to fall asleep immediately and stay asleep. Maybe you can find something like that although if the sleeplessness is due to SEs maybe it won't help.

Hope you both catch some quality Zs tonight.

[RudyB]

Sabby's Progress Thread

sabby, sounds like you're doing great with the alcohol thing! good on the sleep improvement. i have had some insomnia and some too-frequent night wakings, but they seem to be balancing out. yours will, too. seems they already are a bit (lucky you, sleeping until 10 am!).

caroling, what a beautiful tradition. in my neighborhood growing up, i doubt anybody was drunk, though; that would have been scandalous in my white christmas vermont dreamworld.

you gotta say more about the minimalist running shoes: what are they?! in case you didn't read it, i asked you about your shoes on my thread... (mine are clearly substandard; my feet hurt a little the next day, and that's after only 3 miles!)

cassander, yes, you are absolutely right: there are amazing stories to tell here, and we must keep doing it. somehow, sometime soon i hope, the word about the miracle of baclofen will reach a wider audience, and the world will be saved much money and immeasurable tragedy.

[Cassander]

Sabby's Progress Thread

Hi Sabby --- how's it going? Please check in. Cass

[SabbyATL]

Sabby's Progress Thread

Hey, all!

I apologize for not keeping up here. I did NOT go on a bender. I had to sacrifice my computer from Monday until today so i only had my android phone for internet access and that's no fun.

Anyway, update:

I've been AF since I started. I can't say it's easy. I have cravings off and on. Been drinking NA beer every night but starting to get tired of it and will probably stop and just drink diet soda.

I'm having big cravings tonight because, I think, today is my last day of work for the year. I've got off until Jan 6. Normally I'd get really lit tonight.

But I can't because (1) I am trying to stop, and (2) I have to go run at 5am and I don't want to feel terrible.

As for the sleep issues...I do think that was more Al withdrawal than anything. It seems to have gone away. BUT, I am super super tired at points during the day, despite getting a full night's sleep and no Al.

I'm up to 20mg bac in 2 doses.

I'm thinking me SEs are the fatigue during the day AND some eye twitching that's intermittent.

I wanted to keep a spreadsheet but I've been having computer issues and I lost the one I was using.

So, I am going to create a new one and fill in the current day. It's not scientific but I'll try to backfill the days I wasn't able to fill.