Starting out on Bac: Questions

[penelope67]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

PS I remember someone posting that Dr L insisted people take B vitamins while taking bac. I know B vitamins are very important in the fight against stress and depression. Esp B12. I take a B complex plus extra niacin. Niacin really makes me feel calm (after the read flush lol)

[Bill.P.]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

Hey to jump in here as I dont come here often.
But just my curbside diagnosis based on the little import you have said. Your alcoholism is a symptom, not the cause of your issues.
You description of your mood changes and depression mean you have a mood disorder of some sort and of course you'll need further testing beyond an internet posting by moi.

My best guestimate of what you are suffering is a mood disorder along the lines of a bipolar spectrum, since you mentioned depression as the main emphasis and you discussed no manic outbursts, like won the lottery, going to get this great job. You don't describe manic features.

You may have have which you didnt describe, I am surmising, periods of hypomania, where you are creative, intellgent, dilligent, a great temployeee. And then like a light switch you are in the darkest of depression and unable to function. ITs a cyclic illness often misdiagnosed as many are seen as over achievers i their hypomania state.

It is often exacerbated by primary care doctors who see these mood disorder patietns who ARE EXTREMELY prone to alcohol selfmedication todeal wtih that sudden low. Insomnia is also a hallmark feature of this.

A primary caredoctor has 15 minutes and will throw an antidepressant at someone who has a mood disorder, complains of depression. Which,antidepressants are the very last thing to give as it accelerates the mood cycle and deepens the highs and lows.
So mood stabilizers are the treatment.
You should really take the time to speak with a shrink, spend some time being observed and get the correct diagnosis. Baclofen may be a bandaid, but my impression that their is a genetic mood disorder causing your issues and easily treatable if you get the right diagnosis.

Or you could have any other form of depression and a whole book of issues. Thats why a professional should evaluate you. Just based on what you wrote. So I could be way off

Good luck though

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

Hiya, Pronoia. Love the name. The first time I read it I thought you'd misspelled paranoia. :H I felt a little silly when you explained it, but I do love new words, so thanks!

I'm going to answer your questions and address some other things in this thread too. My answers are based only on my experience, and spending a ridiculous amount of time here over the course of almost two years.

Pronoia2012;1226391 wrote: 1) Does Bac make it easier to be abstinent before the switch?
2) If you're not abstinent, is titrating up more dangerous?
3) How did you function at work with SE? How did you get up, etc.? What about using Ambien/Ativan for sleep?
4) How do you exercise if all you feel like doing is sleeping?
5) Do people feel like BAC is a chemical tightrope?
6) Does BAC make you depressed? I have always been depressed.

1. Probably. I drank like a fish. Even when I knew I didn't want or need to. It lowers anxiety and craving. For me this first happened around 120mg/day. For others much lower.
2. Baclofen is not dangerous. Period. Don't get me wrong, it can be very uncomfortable if you take a bunch of it, take it erratically, take it, say, the way Bluto took it. It can also cause SEs that make it not so safe to drive, or to make spur of the moment decisions that affect someones life. If you're a nurse/physician/lawyer/have your finger on the big red button and need to think on your feet, plan accordingly.
3. What I can't imagine is how I used to function hungover. The last time I was hungover I couldn't get out of bed for two days. The last time my husband was hungover he was so miserable and cranky I almost locked him in the closet with juice and toast. Ditto getting up. I got up! I felt terrible, but then again, I always felt terrible. And yes, using sleep meds can help if you experience insomnia! (I think I functioned better at work on HDB than I did without it. I felt discombobulated but people often remarked how calm and together I was. Same thing for my husband. I could see the results in him.)
4. I loved exercising on HDB. More than I ever did before I started bac, and I exercised regularly. This was after a period of time when I was gentle with myself. If I felt really terrible then I gave myself a break.
5. I think I used to feel like I was walking a tightrope all the time. And yes, I still feel like it is. But only in that I want to be at my best--peak performance. How does sugar affect this? How about meat? Or supplements? We take so much for granted! I read so much about all of this stuff, and then realize that I was a drunk for 20+ years and my body did pretty damn well. Homeostasis is our friend.
6. A resounding no. But it can. I have watched (through here and in my own life) many people go down, or up, and get depressed. I was and am always on the lookout for this. I hate being depressed. I haven't been in so many months, I am almost not worried about it anymore! Still, plan accordingly! Exercise of course. And supplements. And support. I think those things helped me avoid being depressed.

Side effects are mostly dose dependent. Look for the balance. It's not as hard as looking for the balance of living with AL.

Pronoia2012;1226391 wrote: I am using Bluto's method for reasons similar to his.

I went to AA, started abstaining, and stayed abstinent by threatening myself with going back to AA. I began re-drinking a couple months ago.

AA frankly seems a less dangerous path than BAC, but I'd rather kill myself than go.

AL frankly seems less dangerous than BAC, but I don't want to kill myself from AL.

I am alone and hope I am not going to kill myself doing this or make myself depressed enough to contemplate that. I don't, right now, but I spend time wishing I were dead, sober or not. Right now, I'm sober.

That first statement confuses me. You're obviously (and understandably!) frightened of the SEs and the unknown. This doesn't strike me as similar to Bluto's frame of mind when he started down that path. Ditto Lo0p, whom Bluto based his own titration on. Both were at their wits end, not working, actively suicidal.

Abstinence will help. I like AA in theory, but I understand.

Almost nothing is more dangerous than active alcoholism. Wanna die young? Drink up! Wanna ingest something that pervasively and overwhelmingly negatively affects your body and brain chemistry? Booze fills that requirement. Blood pressure, depression, bipolarity, anxiety, liver/kidney/heart disease, breast cancer, hmmm. What else? Dry skin. Wrinkles. Bruises, broken bones, car accidents. My hair didn't grow. I didn't know this fact! It's grown many inches in the last several months! I'm guessing this has to do with my supplement regimen and the fact that my body can actually use the nutrients I ingest. Who knew? The secret to long hair...I may put an ad on youtube!

Bill.P.;1231239 wrote:
You description of your mood changes and depression mean you have a mood disorder of some sort and of course you'll need further testing beyond an internet posting by moi.

My best guestimate of what you are suffering is a mood disorder along the lines of a bipolar spectrum, since you mentioned depression as the main emphasis and you discussed no manic outbursts, like won the lottery, going to get this great job. You don't describe manic features.

You may have have which you didnt describe, I am surmising, periods of hypomania, where you are creative, intellgent, dilligent, a great temployeee. And then like a light switch you are in the darkest of depression and unable to function. ITs a cyclic illness often misdiagnosed as many are seen as over achievers i their hypomania state.

This is a favorite topic of Bill's. I was diagnosed with depression off and on for years. I was also fairly convinced (partly because of posts on MWO!) that I was bipolar. Especially when I was titrating up. I'm not. I'm not saying you don't have something going on. I am suggesting that AL can cause the problem, not the other way around.
I was definitely hypomanic pre-bac. And definitely a bit manic after I got sober with bac. ( I miss that! I was so productive!!!) I'm simply normal now. It's a little disconcerting to be this normal.

One pill at a time. One day after another. With an eye toward the goal and a plan to manage life. Those things will help. But the bottom line is this: I just took the damn pills. No matter what. It took 4 months. It sucked. I'd do it again and for twice the time and more. Life on this side is that good.

Geez. Sorry this is so long.

[penelope67]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

@ Ne:
"I am simply normal now" this cracked me up but i could also relate, although I am not normal yet, only on day4 of baclofen but i know about abbynormal!! "One pill at a time" this will be my new motto

thanks!

[penelope67]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

pps I agree with Ne about alcohol causing mood disorders, I think alcohol made me sort of bipolar
Alcohol made me manic, then i would be severely depressed and anxious afterwards

all these conditions are so relative it's hard to know what causes what
eating protein really helps me feel better, it's almost miraculous
and there is quite a bit of evidence for Vitamins treating mental illness
thats why i say take Bcomplex, eat 3 good meals, get proper rest, take the baclofen and wait and see
what did come first? the chicken? or the egg?????

[Pronoia2012]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

Hi everyone, thanks so much for these responses.

1) 0.5 ml = 10 mg?
2) Years ago, I acquired phenibut and had the same violent reaction.
3) Based on what people have said, I should just stay at what my body can take until it takes it, yeah?

[Bill.P.]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

Yes, 0.5mL is 10mg
Because 1.0 ml is 20 mg

Women are especially sensitive to their body, thats just nature

[Pronoia2012]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

I took 30 mg yesterday and today. I don't feel like drinking. Is it the switch?

[PJS]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

Pronoia, sobered up many years ago with AA. Stayed sober many years then started drinking again. My religious beliefs have changed and I cannot bear to go back for that reason and the ones you listed.

That said, I matured and learned about life in AA. I would never tell anyone not to go, just that it is not right for everyone.

Thank you for keeping us informed about your progress. I'm at 28 days sober but have begun to have more serious cravings. Am considering Bac.

Bon Chance

[Greg]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

Pronoia2012;1234172 wrote: I took 30 mg yesterday and today. I don't feel like drinking. Is it the switch?

It's possible, since there was a study or two done in Italy with low doses like that. Reduced alcohol cravings at only 30 mg per day were reported from memory. It would probably not be the magical "switch" that people around here talk about, but if you remain not desperately wanting a drink, it would be a good enough result I'd say. Low doses like this have seemingly helped reduce my cravings for drugs in the past, too.

[Pronoia2012]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

PJS,
You were AL-free for years, and now you're AL-free for almost a month.
You're moving toward success either way. Good for you.

Bac quiets the cravings and allows focus to extend beyond white knuckling it to another meeting.

[Pronoia2012]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

I'm at 40.
I've overslept for 3 days now. I don't hear the alarm, phone, nothing.
HOW DO YOU GUYS WAKE UP??

[RedThread12]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

Welcome to the fully unpredictable world of bac SE's, Pro!!

Most people report that many of them kick in after a dosage increase, then subside after a few days.

Or maybe you just really need some sleep!! I know that figuring out how to get dependable sleep contributed hugely to getting sober for me.

Looks as if it's going to be quite a ride for you, but the result is SO worth it. If you haven't already, re Ne's thread from the beginning - that'll give you some perspective on how wild and how worth it it is to keep taking the pills.

Hang in . . . good luck!!

[Pronoia2012]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

At 45 now.
Reading the Bluto/Bill P thread has me worried, too.

[Nutshell]

Starting out on Bac: Questions

Pronoia2012;1234921 wrote: I'm at 40.
I've overslept for 3 days now. I don't hear the alarm, phone, nothing.
HOW DO YOU GUYS WAKE UP??

Sounds like you might be one of the lucky ones. Like you, I found sleeping really easy. Some people actually suffer from insomnia. Not waking up in time is going to be annoying though. At what time are you taking your last dose?