Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

[Pronoia2012]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

One of my bio profs was bipolar. He was a groundbreaking researcher, well-published.
There were times he could not write a coherent sentence on the board.
During such times, being in the lab was not ideal. During those times. That's all I'm saying.

[Someone]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

Profile of the Sociopath

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

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Other Related Qualities:

Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)


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NOTE: In the 1830's this disorder was called "moral insanity." By 1900 it was changed to "psychopathic personality." More recently it has been termed "antisocial personality disorder" in the DSM-III and DSM-IV. Some critics have complained that, in the attempt to rely only on 'objective' criteria, the DSM has broadened the concept to include too many individuals. The APD category includes people who commit illegal, immoral or self-serving acts for a variety of reasons and are not necessarily psychopaths.


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DSM-IV Definition

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture. There is a marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules. Individuals with this disorder are sometimes called psychopaths or sociopaths.

Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)

1. Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture, as indicated by at least three of the following:
A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest.
B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases.
C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.
D. Repeated assaults on others.
E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.
F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations.
G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others.

2. At least eighteen years in age.

3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.

4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.

[terryk]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

Otter;1236092 wrote:

Just think, when you are rubbishing someone who is running a business, how you would like to have your livelihood put at risk by allegations that you are unfit to be doing what you are doing.

Bill P has done medical school, treated patients, set up a business to help fellow alcoholics. Maybe he used aliases to get some publicity for his business and getting around the rules of this "commercial" forum.

Exercise caution, contact him by all means but please watch what you are saying on this thread.

Just saying!
Otter, do your imagined excuses for Bill's behavior include a rationalization for the slander of Dr. Levin?:

Bill.P.;1233172 wrote: Alrhoufh I hate to agree with a guy named Johnny Swallows.YOU NEVE NEVENA

On average post 6 oost ob Dr L being in the end of and be all of baclofen. WHEN the science is not that and actually contradits his claims.


My perosnal experiemce, a lwayer,losing hiswife practicei is hitting the rocks.Bnevin wassitnessingmy angstove the matter to samethe guyslife.

Wellthebaclofendidntwork.Andfor2 hour phone call he wasjustcharged $500

I went back andsaid thisis a how you doitl And he'salcohol free for the mostpart,slips heareandtherel


But paying $300 to a 45 minutetan hursession who cantrememeber youfrom phonecalltothenext.

Imsorrylady,I thinkyoure gettign a majorkickabackonthis Dr. LEVIN fraud.He prescribes controlled substanceswithoiutevermeeting the patiets.He'satime bomebobmb

And to be fair, while the above exchange happened during the admittedly aberrant and most recent episode, this (and several others) happened during the 12 months leading up to it:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1192177

(And then scroll down in the same thread for some support from you):
https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1192376

Have you taken the time to send your wise words (about rubbishing some one who has completed medical school, treated patients, and set up a business to help alcoholics) to Bill.P.?

Just saying!

-tk

[Cinders]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

Just think, when you are rubbishing someone who is running a business, how you would like to have your livelihood put at risk by allegations that you are unfit to be doing what you are doing.

Give me a break, Otter. I do not mean to rubbish Bill. I mean to awaken all to the possible harm that could happen when someone sets up a lab, creates a drug in that lab and there are no safeguards in place to ensure that the drug produced is safe and effective.

I do not dislike Bill/Bluto/coffee, whomever but I will stand up for what is right.

I simply do not want to see someone harmed, albeit inadvertently, by a person who means well but doesn't have the safeguards in place to ensure the product is safe.

There is a reason for oversight of drug companies. People die or suffer irreparable harm if the drugs are not made to specification.

I am a bit angry, now, for being accused of trying to rubbish someone who started a business.

Why not buy xanax from Bill? I am sure he could create it for you.

Oh, never mind. No matter what I say, it will be taken as trying to trash someone. That is not my intent. My intent is for those who are drinking Bill's concoction understand that they do so without any safeguards in place to ensure the tincture is safe.

Cindi

[Greg]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

I, too, have been thinking of the safety of forum members while speaking about this matter. I was not trying to maliciously ruin Bill's business.

I was also not using the term "mental illness" to humiliate Bill, or question his knowledge or his desire to help people. I have a very close friend who has had two recent admissions to a psychiatric clinic, and I have had problems with anxiety and depression myself over many years, so I would never look down on anyone else who suffers from a psychiatric disorder.

However, common sense alone should make it obvious that there is a very real risk of mistakes being made when someone with an active and serious disorder is in sole charge of a chemical laboratory. When that laboratory's products are being ingested as medication by human beings, the potential dangers should not even need to be explained, as they are self evident. Manufacturing a chemical solution requires the correct substances to be used in carefully measured amounts, each and every time, which requires the operator to be in a stable and focused state of mind. Chemistry has been one of my hobbies in the past, and it is something I know I could not practice accurately if I were in an impaired state of mind.

As much as we should be concerned about Bill and his life, which I definitely am, we also have to be concerned about the welfare of everyone else involved in this.

[Otter]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

I am not accusing anyone of anything, just making a point about being compassionate towards those who have this illness. Of course it is a concern for those buying his baclofen but there are ways and means of doing something about it. I just think the mob mentality takes over here from time to time and I admit it is easy to get caught up in it and have been accused of it myself, as we all know. It is very easy to take something which has been posted here or elsewhere the wrong way. A lot of what I say I think is funny but is taken seriously. A lot of what I say is said out of desperation and frustration so I apologize for it.

MEA CULPA...OK!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!:h

PS. I was unaware Bill P was a doctor. I assumed he was an alcoholic who, like a lot of others, has "issues" and probably some psych condition as per the accepted kant. I do have a problem with qualified doctors diagnosing and handing out medication without seeing a patient or reviewing their medical notes. That, however, is the situation in which we find ourselves.

[Bruunhilde]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

I agree his heart is in the right place, and he's not alone in his struggles with mental illness (what does alcoholism create but mental illness?) here.

[Otter]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

Anyway, I am only here to promote Buffy.

[GingerDust]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

I have spent a couple hours reading back in other threads trying to make sense of this thread. I think I understand it now, and I’m freaked out. I think part of it might be that people have developed such a herd mentality that they are not THINKING things through.

If, in the real world, some turd lied to you for years, gave out reckless medical advice while pretending to be a doctor, but pretended to be different people in emails and phone calls to you in order to sell you his illegally made drugs - all the while slandering a respected doctor who makes it legally possible to get legitimate medication and sound medical advice - would you REALLY think that the turd’s “ heart is in the right place?” And he’s cooking the stuff up while he’s so f*cked up that he can’t express a coherent thought, and people will still knowingly and willingly swallow the stuff? I’m sorry, but you people seem very foolish to me.

It is possible to be mentally ill and still be a good person, but there are mental illnesses that make it impossible to be a good person. A person who suffers from such a disorder has mastered the art of winning trust and creating loyalty, but they are NOT good people.

Has anyone noticed that manufacturing and distributing illegal drugs globally is, well, illegal? Not in a “slap on the wrist” kind of way, but in a “DEA is going kick your ass and throw you in a federal pen” kind of way? Does he really think that a disclaimer on his website would slow down law enforcement one bit, especially since he has been publicly stating his intent that human beings swallow his concoctions?

Did it occur to anyone here that behaving the way he has, and openly peddling illicit drugs on MWO, could easily get THIS website shut down? Do you think that the turd cares? He has already said that he wants his own baclofen website to replace this forum.

Jezus, people in the US, if he was doing it in your house, you could permanently lose your home even if you were not involved. I understand that some people have no options. Why would people who have legal options risk involvement in order to take advantage of a drug dealer’s buy-two-get-one-free Xmas sale? Herd mentality is all I can think of. You really do NOT want to mess around in DEA territory. That is a massively powerful agency with fearsome abilities to seize. If you have your wits about you, you want nothing to do with somebody who IS screwing around in DEA territory. Think of how you may be involved should the turd get busted and the repercussions you could suffer having knowingly bought his drugs from him. He does not have to give anybody your information for things to go bad. A quick subpoena on PayPal and whatever other service he may use, his ISP, his email, and you could be part of an investigation. What if MWO was served a subpoena or had their computers seized? THINK!

The turd is no hero and deserves no applause or even sympathy, IMO. Dr. L is a brave soul who freely gives of himself to help people legally and safely get what they need. Bluto/BillP is a crook, a profiteer, a liar and a lunatic, who acts without regard for those who could get hurt. People who have shared credit card numbers with him might want to cancel the card. The turd is obviously not afraid to screw around with the DEA, so what would make people here think that he wouldn’t mess with them too, whether or not he was suffering a psychotic episode?

[SlipperyPete]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

Ginger, what you said would be true if baclofen were a controlled substance, but it is not.

Plus, could you imagine the irony of the DEA doing a bust on a baclofen-making ring?

"Yup, this SICKO here was caught making this chemical that makes people NOT want to do drugs. Woulda put us all right out of a job. Lock him up, boys!"

[woywoyboy]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

Ginger, was that really nescessary or helpful?

[alexcanada]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

I agree with you Ginger. Great post, you hit it on the nail.

[tiptronic_ct]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

Oh FFS.

How much pleasure can there be in flogging a dead horse? For all the reading you've done Ginger, you've also missed a helluva lot more. The resultant melodrama is not helpful in any way.

Can this thread now please fade into obscurity?

[Someone]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

I hope this thread never goes into obscurity. If it does, I hope another one is started. Tiptronic, you should be ASHAMED of yourself. This horse SHOULDN'T be dead. You should be actively trying to see what is happening. The man continues to come on MWO and attempts to sell baclofen. Ginger, you are correct, except the DEA will do nothing about this.

The herd mentality is accurate. The herd is being led by a view individuals. Individuals who are foolish and careless.

[Someone]

Bluto/Bill.P. and Virtuous Labs

tiptronic_ct;1238400 wrote: Oh FFS.

How much pleasure can there be in flogging a dead horse? For all the reading you've done Ginger, you've also missed a helluva lot more. The resultant melodrama is not helpful in any way.

Can this thread now please fade into obscurity?

I'm new posting here. I should have done this first in regard to Tiptronic's words.