if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

[suneelca]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

redhead -- reading your post, you're pointing to a range of potential causes for alcoholism that do not correspond, necessarily, to malfunction / dysfunction of the amygdala? But treating with diet is hard to do because it's hard to stay on? But, as I recollect, you have had some success with Baclofen -- and that doing so might be easier because rather than having to stay on a diet, which all of us find difficult to do, because you just have to take pills?

Otter -- I've thought that maybe "they" (the people who run the water system and likely also name streets) should think about dropping Bac into the water supply, in much the same way that there has been discussion of doing with statins as a means of preventing heart disease). That's obviously a joke -- sort of. It would be interesting if someday, Bac or a derivative like Arbaclofen became the standard of care or drug of first resort for a range of perceived disorders (autism spectrum disorder, bipolar spectrum disorder, schizophrenia, alcohol dependence, etc.).

[penelope67]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

first of all I would just like to say:
LOOK HOW FRIGGING SMART WE ALL ARE!! WOW!!!!

(I know the use of "frigging" diminishes my intelligence but I needed emphasis AND I live in Brooklyn, actually no one in Brooklyn says frigging lol)

[penelope67]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

I should have used some emoticons
LOOK HOW FRIGGING SMART WE ALL ARE!! WOW!!!!:H
:thanks:

[Otter]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

There is a pill you take for yeast infection. I think you just take one and it kills it in a day. It is something you buy for, ehem, yeast infection, ehem so it is a bit embarrassing for a guy to buy it. Cannot remember the name of it. It is not the major issue in alcoholism but the hypoglycaemic thing is a viscious circle. I think the name for the condition is hyperinsulinism and it results in the need for more and more sugar until one ends up returning to alcohol. Detox should include a course of anti yeast treatment and a change of diet.

I saw this on TV the other day so maybe one could combine a detox diet with living 20 years longer: CR Society Home The guy on TV says it works so it must be true. I think this is a bit like the Potatoes not Prozac diety. (Although looking at the graph it does seem that, sadly, all the mice did die!) Seven Weeks also has a diet regime in it.

[Mirawizad]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

Grape Seed Extract & Niacin

My hypoglacemia used to be so bad after the 12 hour fast I took the sugar solution at the doctors and within an hour my blood sugar was down to 37. My doctor was amazed I didn't have symptoms at 37. So now I have a kit I can use to check my blood if I need to. Anything below 70 is considered hypoglacemic.

I have great success with Grapefruit Seed Extract 125 mg 3x a day for two weeks in killing yeist and hence sugar cravings. When I added 2.5 grams of Niacin in 4 doses with food with equal 2.5 grams of vitamin C my blood sugar wouldn't drop low anymore and hence no hypoglacemic symptoms anymore. I still have to eat a pretty healthy diet and avoid simple sugars, etc.

[Otter]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

That is a lot of vitamin C. Doesn't it give one the runs? Is it Niacin that makes you tingle? Do you have to do that only for 2 weeks?

Then there is finding a diet that is pleasant to eat and not just lots of salad. Do you just not feel like eating sugary things? It is getting food that doesn't have sugar in it. Do you just eat a lot of vegetable with meat and no sauces? It seems impossible. I walk through the supermarket and everything has sugar in it except the meat and vegetable section. I suppose fish doesn't have sugar in it. It is the sauces that do it. We have just got used to cooking with sauces etc.

[Greg]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

penelope67;1239937 wrote: wow Greg you just described my life to a T. ISOLATED. When I drink I become "normal" and feel I can go out of my house. of course my behavior eventually becomes abnormal after too many drinks. Manic even, which I attribute to Dopamine. Then the recovery period severe anxiety and attempts not to drink I am stuck alone, in some kind of overwhelming fear that prevents me from even leaving the house. Interestingly, if I have, by some miracle, gotten into a relationship I feel better in every way. When I read that Baclofen affects Oxytocin I wondered if that is why. Love, of course, is a drug. Either way 99% of the time I am trapped and alone and it is devastating.

In my early years I did believe that finding a loving partner may well have given me the huge boost I needed to tackle my depression and alcohol dependence, due to loneliness and resultant depression being my main initial reasons for using alcohol as an escape from life. I was stuck with this idea in my head that my life had no value if someone didn't like me enough to be my partner, but my own extreme social awkwardness must have also pushed away anyone who came close. I was defeating myself in this area of life.

These days, love would still improve my mood drastically, but I would also always have to remember that the addiction has become a separate entity now, with a deadly life all of its own. It will always need to be watched and treated.

I seriously hope you find a loving relationship, and also sustained freedom from dependence.

[Greg]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

Otter;1239723 wrote: Ne, Swim and his cat don't exist. You have to figure out what it means.

But thanks, that is very interesting because Baclofen works on what is called the amygdala which animal have. Humans have an "old" brain which is similar to animals and they also have a cerebral cortex which animals don't. What that shows is that this disease is a condition of the "automatic" systems of the brain, ie., the fear and anxiety center, rather than the thinking part of the brain. For some they can use their rational thinking part of the brain and with some help either with some medication or counselling, AA etc. they can get back to normal, but for someone who has brain damage to the old part of the brain through both stroke and concussion, it is an entirely different thing. The result is that they are steered towards therapies that don't work, make them worse because it involves social interaction and possibly the use do drugs which are not right for the condition but might work in others.

What I am trying to say is that much of what I have said over the past year may have been incorrect for most people here. Alcoholism can also cause brain damage which for many can be halted before it becomes severe or reversed by abstinence with the help of medication like Baclofen, counselling, AA or will power and then good nutrition and vitamin therapy as in Seven Weeks to Sobriety but some who have been here and not responded to Baclofen may have had other brain issues which Baclofen does not address. The result is that some here come across as desperate because Baclofen might not be working and they don't understand why. Then you get people starting meta discussions saying this is because of some hidden agenda. Then, if out of desperation, you go after advice from people who are not liked her you are accused of being subversive.

I suppose that is why I have gone quiet because I realize I am probably not helping the majority of people here by talking about issues which relate to a different and more serious condition. I don't know and I don't want to alarm anyone and make their conditions worse out of fear. Equally though, there may be people here who have these issues and they should start looking at this as a neurological issue as well as a life style and psychological problem.

Otter, I wish I had replied to this earlier, since this thread has sort of moved on past this now. It has been interesting to read your viewpoints, and how you see things from the point of view of people who have different problems.

I have long believed our minds have separate parts, one being emotional and the other logical and cognitive. That was before I ever read anything about brain structure, which I am still learning about. My belief was simply from my own experience of having a part of me that craved alcohol no matter what, while another part of me would always try to rationally argue against drinking.

I definitely agree that people having serious physical brain damage, whatever the cause, would have more limited chances of improvement than those who don't. They would also benefit less from therapies and certain drugs that can help others, as you said.

Many people with mental disorders of various types would not have as-seriously damaged brains, and could get more benefit from both drugs and therapies. Others whose primary problem is alcohol/drug dependence, maybe also with psychological disorders arising only from that dependence, are a somewhat different case again.

As for baclofen not addressing some cases, I remain as interested as ever in baclofen, but I have never imagined it (or any other drug or therapy) is a cure-all with a perfect success rate. Some cases of genuine alcohol dependence may arise from neurotransmitter or brain area irregularities that baclofen does not repair, just as you said. Also, people who drink to escape from problems in their life, or as a way of getting high, or as their main social scene, can also develop a severe type of habitual drinking with huge levels of consumption.

I think you said in another of your recent posts that you had wondered if some people here were really alcoholics (correct me if I am wrong). From what I have read, most have me convinced they are dependent on alcohol, and I don't think they would post here if they were not. Some would still be in the early stages of dependence, and drinking at low levels, but they have the potential to become severely dependent as time goes on. I have no doubt that I am classified as an alcoholic, since I have been drinking above safe levels and to escape problems for about 23 years, and was at a nightly level of 15-20 standard drinks (150-200 grams of ethanol) for about 10 years (with a few breaks however).

I hope you and your wife are going well.

[redhead77]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

[quote=suneelca;1240470]redhead -- reading your post, you're pointing to a range of potential causes for alcoholism that do not correspond, necessarily, to malfunction / dysfunction of the amygdala? But treating with diet is hard to do because it's hard to stay on? But, as I recollect, you have had some success with Baclofen -- and that doing so might be easier because rather than having to stay on a diet, which all of us find difficult to do, because you just have to take pills?

quote]

Nah, I'm not sure if these are the "cause of alcoholism", maybe some just correspond for some of us. Is the root cause in the amygdala? Does anyone know for sure? I do believe it starts with the brain. Regardless, I was going to write about baclofen too and I should have. You just have to keep taking the damn pills, Sun. Baclofen works. Period. One can't tackle other minor issues that may be contributing, without first dealing with the major one...the brain. So, this is where I believe it begins and the rest will eventually work itself out. Baclofen provides the tool to deal with the other stuff. It's awfully hard to go on a special diet, or figure out whatever else one needs for optimal health, when drinking into an oblivion everyday.

[Otter]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

Greg, I know everyone here is AL dependent. It just seemed they did not match my own experience of it.

[Greg]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

Otter;1241709 wrote: Greg, I know everyone here is AL dependent. It just seemed they did not match my own experience of it.

Many do not match my experience of it either, in fact it has been an eye opener for me to see how many differences there are between many of us.

[penelope67]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

"Gut Bacteria In Autistic Children Different From Non-Autistic Children"

sorry all that I have been MIA on my own thread,
I promise to write something tomorrow
Meanwhile I came upon this article which i thought was interesting given the fact that connections have been made between alcoholism and autism and both respond positively to Bac...
"Gut Bacteria In Autistic Children Different From Non-Autistic Children"
Gut Bacteria In Autistic Children Different From Non-Autistic Children
:H

[Otter]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

I think I have figured this out.

I was looking into something called Hyperintensive White Matter. White matter refers to part of the brain, the corpus callosum, which is made up of dense myelinated fibers that usually interconnect territories of the two cerebral hemispheres. Lesions of the Corpus Callosum: MR Imaging and Differential Considerations in Adults and Children.

Now, get this, Multiple Sclerosis is a demyelinating disease. demyelination - multiple sclerosis encyclopaedia In other words, multiple sclerosis is the loss of myelin which is the coating of these nerve fibres.

And, Baclofen is the main drug for treating multiple sclerosis. Baclofen (Lioresal) | A to Z of MS | MS Trust - Information, education, research and support

Are you following this so far? Now, this is where it gets interesting. Alcoholism is also a demyelinating disease. Other demyelinating diseases

So, both alcoholism and MS involve loss of myelin, the protective coating of nerve fibre in the deep white matter of the brain. Therefore, you would think that they both have similar symptoms and possibly anxiety. And you would be right. Anxiety and Multiple Sclerosis 90% of MS patients suffer from anxiety.

Conclusion: Anxiety in alcoholism is caused by the loss of myelin. Baclofen works because it is a treatment for this illness.

Bonzer!


Adding to this I would say that alcoholism is a vitamin D deficiency. Lack of vitamin D, particularly in northern countries, results in loss of myelin, anxiety and then drinking.


Alcoholism and Vitamin D

Drinking alcohol results in loss of Vitamin D.

Alcohol And Vitamin D Deficiency | LIVESTRONG.COM



MS and vitamin D

Vitamin D | Multiple Sclerosis Society UK


Sunlight and Vitamin D deficiency

Vitamin D myths, facts and statistics


Myelin repair and Vitamin D.

dvitamin


There it is, problem solved!

[terryk]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

Otter;1245207 wrote: I think I have figured this out.

I was looking into something called Hyperintensive White Matter. White matter refers to part of the brain, the corpus callosum, which is made up of dense myelinated fibers that usually interconnect territories of the two cerebral hemispheres. Lesions of the Corpus Callosum: MR Imaging and Differential Considerations in Adults and Children.

Now, get this, Multiple Sclerosis is a demyelinating disease. demyelination - multiple sclerosis encyclopaedia In other words, multiple sclerosis is the loss of myelin which is the coating of these nerve fibres.

And, Baclofen is the main drug for treating multiple sclerosis. Baclofen (Lioresal) | A to Z of MS | MS Trust - Information, education, research and support

Are you following this so far? Now, this is where it gets interesting. Alcoholism is also a demyelinating disease. Other demyelinating diseases

So, both alcoholism and MS involve loss of myelin, the protective coating of nerve fibre in the deep white matter of the brain. Therefore, you would think that they both have similar symptoms and possibly anxiety. And you would be right. Anxiety and Multiple Sclerosis 90% of MS patients suffer from anxiety.

Conclusion: Anxiety in alcoholism is caused by the loss of myelin. Baclofen works because it is a treatment for this illness.

Bonzer!


Adding to this I would say that alcoholism is a vitamin D deficiency. Lack of vitamin D, particularly in northern countries, results in loss of myelin, anxiety and then drinking.


Alcoholism and Vitamin D

Drinking alcohol results in loss of Vitamin D.

Alcohol And Vitamin D Deficiency | LIVESTRONG.COM



MS and vitamin D

Vitamin D | Multiple Sclerosis Society UK


Sunlight and Vitamin D deficiency

Vitamin D myths, facts and statistics


Myelin repair and Vitamin D.

dvitamin


There it is, problem solved!

This is pure rubbish. -tk

[Ne/Neva Eva]

if alcoholism is a disease and Baclofen is the cure...

Vitamin D is one of the vitamins that one can overdose on. I take a lot of it, too, but I'm pale, have had skin cancer, avoid the sun and live well north of the equator. (Many, many, many people are Vitamin D deficient. Many more than those of us who are alcohol dependent.) (Also, women are more likely to be Vitamin D deficient. Women are less likely to be alcohol dependent.) (Though there is some correlation between lack of sun and alcohol abuse... Ditto Vitamin D deficiency and lack of sun. Obviously. But that would indicate that people with a plethura of Vitamin D, say those that live on a wide open, very sunny space, say Arizona, would not become alcohol dependent. But you can't tell me that there aren't Arizonian drunks. I know one!)

Nope. The MS and alcoholism connection doesn't hold water, either.

Baclofen treats the spasticity that MS causes, not the MS.