Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

[Road to Recovery]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

Last thing I am going to post for a while.
I am just going to let you know - me being an alcoholic (Cassander and Otter are not - I do not know why they insist on drowning this forum in pointless theories), I do not give a damn about all of these threads about what you think may cause alcoholism - there are so many it just makes for more giberish - for those who come here to find a way out - to wade through and it doesn't accomplish anything. Alcoholics who come here want to find a way out - they don't want to find an excuse for their disease like "I am only an alcoholic because some guy who isn't an alcoholic or doctor or scientist, says that I am Vitamin D deficient".
I came here to find ways of getting off alcohol - not read thread after thread after thread that goes nowhere about theories - especially from people that have no clue what it is like to be an alcoholic - they have no idea about the struggles and the pain that alcohol puts us through, and never will.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

Your point is taken, Road. And I agree, to a degree.
But TW (thewife) raises a good question that I think a lot of people, alcohol-dependent or not, struggle with. The "WHY???"
It was one of the things I was trying to answer when I got here.
It was spending some time here, and asking it repeatedly, that helped me find the answer.

And TW, I don't think someone with normal (and I'm still searching for an adequate definition of that) brain chemistry can drink their way to alcoholism. But that would disagree with some very prominent scholars and theories that are still pretty prevalent.
The accepted idea, though, the one that is part of a new definition, (NIAAA Home) and will likely be incorporated into the next DSM, is that it is a primary disease. One of the implications of that is that there isn't a catalyst. It's a disease similar to say, Type 1 diabetes. Or cancer. Or something similar to those. Genetics, environment, stress, etc...can all contribute to say, cancer. And some people are just born with diabetes.
Does that make sense?
This is not to begin the big nurture/nature debate, or to relinquish responsibility for drunken behavior. It's an effort to help find the truth, each according to their own, but with as much information as possible. Pretty naive, but also probably possible.

[missyabby1]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

What the?

Hey road, you nailed it. I first came here about a year ago now. I don't drink anymore, but still love to see how people are going. Just wanted to say that your last post was spot on.

I would love to say that Otters post was beneficial to all here, but they never seem to be. I live in oz, plenty of sun, but I think he just should leave it to the scientists.

Hope u doing well.

Missy x

[missyabby1]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

Ne, have to disagree there. I think that many people do drink their way into alcoholism. Not at all as informed as you, but my experience with addiction , if you do it, long enough and often enough, the brain just adapts to needing it.

Simple, I know, but maybe a grain of truth.

Really hope you guys are ok.

love Missy xx

[Nutshell]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

I knew someone who had MS. Before the diagnosis, his job involved spending all of his time working outside. He had the worst kind of MS. The aggressive kind that progresses quickly and gradually takes away your ability to do anything that a normal person is able to do. He died before the age of 50. He didn't have an alcohol problem, and didn't suffer from anxiety or depression. I'm not sure I would have been the same.

Is it surprising though, that 90% of people who are disabled and have a potentially life threatening condition suffer from anxiety?

[eight days a week]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

You might not have hit the nail on the head Otter, but a very interesting and thought-provoking set of posts nonetheless

Ne/Neva Eva;1246540 wrote:
And TW, I don't think someone with normal (and I'm still searching for an adequate definition of that) brain chemistry can drink their way to alcoholism. But that would disagree with some very prominent scholars and theories that are still pretty prevalent.

Utter rubbish.

In my opinion there are people who are pre-disposed, there are people who are a bit-predisposed, and there are people who aren't pre-disposed. But, as alcohol is a proven addictive substance, even not being pre-disposed will not protect you if you end up drinking enough.

[Bruunhilde]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

No, not surprising. I'd be even more of a wreck if I knew I had MS or other severe illness. Of course, alcoholism is a potentially fatal illness so maybe we're anxious about that too. DG pointed out somewhere that only 10% of the population in the US or world, not sure, become addicts. The people I partied with in high school and college and after didn't all become addicts to alcohol. I just found my copy of Seven Weeks and think I'll reread it yet again. She explains it all quite nicely.

[Cinders]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

Road to Recovery;1246522 wrote: Last thing I am going to post for a while.
I am just going to let you know - me being an alcoholic (Cassander and Otter are not - I do not know why they insist on drowning this forum in pointless theories), I do not give a damn about all of these threads about what you think may cause alcoholism - there are so many it just makes for more giberish - for those who come here to find a way out - to wade through and it doesn't accomplish anything. Alcoholics who come here want to find a way out - they don't want to find an excuse for their disease like "I am only an alcoholic because some guy who isn't an alcoholic or doctor or scientist, says that I am Vitamin D deficient".
I came here to find ways of getting off alcohol - not read thread after thread after thread that goes nowhere about theories - especially from people that have no clue what it is like to be an alcoholic - they have no idea about the struggles and the pain that alcohol puts us through, and never will.

I was a bit surprised by the vehemence of the above post. If I find something to be gibberish or not worth my time, I leave it be.

And while I do agree that only alcoholics truly understand the struggle to achieve sobriety, I have to state that my husband, who does not drink, has suffered quite a bit of pain and anguish due to my alcoholism. Therefore, I listen to his thoughts and views without rancor.

I won't delve into the differing opinions about causality, etc, of this addiction.

But, I do think Otter and Cassander have a complete right to pose an idea. Without questioning and delving, progress is seldom made.

Who knows where the next breakthrough in alcohol treatment may come from?

Penicillin was discovered when Fleming noticed that one of his staphylococci petri dishes had been compromised by a mold. Where the mold was growing, the staphylococci was unable to reproduce and had died. Rather than throw up his hands at the accident, luckily Fleming recognized something very special that had no relationship to his research. This mold killed the staphylococci bacteria. Voila, penicillin was discovered.

Just my $0.02.

Cindi

[gratitude]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

Ne,
It seems that it could be nature and nurture. From what I've been studying genes turn on and off according to the environment. So let's say you have the gene that is responsible for schizophrenia. You may or may not develop this disease depending on the environment. If your home situation is strong enough you don't go on to develop schizo.
I think you saw the doc on nutrition and cancer recently? Can't remember the name but I think that was the premise... That by having a certain diet you can turn off certain genes that lead to cancer. Extrapolating further, I think this could be the same with alcoholism. If the gene is there and you have the environmental conditions then the gene turns on and viola. I have wondered if the switch is the gene turning off?
I also think there are different types of alcoholism. Otherwise, why would TSM work for some instead of Bac. Grat

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

eight days a week;1246630 wrote:
Utter rubbish.
See what I mean? :H
Hi, 8. I will offer that this opinion of mine is a complete turnaround from what I thought two years ago. The change has a lot to do with the things I've read that people have posted here. Much of it posted by Otter. And my reasoning is based on people who know a great deal more than I do about this. I found their arguments the most convincing. (It really is moot. But I find it very interesting.)

Bruunhilde;1246631 wrote: The people I partied with in high school and college and after didn't all become addicts to alcohol.

That has always confounded me. I have a close friend who has dabbled with the most quickly addictive stuff on earth, and used it all w/o repercussion. Amazing. She was right there with me in college. And I've never liked any other drug, not one. And I've tried a few.

gratitude;1246653 wrote: Ne,
From what I've been studying genes turn on and off according to the environment.

Epigenetics! I LOVE epigenetics! As to the rest, I dunno.

[Otter]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

This is an edit so this does not go back to the top.

I appreciate some of the comments here, particularly the negative ones. It is when you get people you hardly know saying things that you realize you are having a negative effect so it is a reality check which I take on board. I suppose it is easy to think that a few people just have it in for me because they disagree with my ideas or feel I have put ideas about which could cause harm but when I hear that others feel the same way then I think I am not doing things the right way. I hope I will be able to take that away from here and act on it. Sorry for any hurt feelings. I suppose it shows how rapped up I am in myself when I am thinking about myself while someone like LoOp is in such pain. I don't even know how to express myself about that. It really brings my own shortcomings into focus.

Best wishes to all and expecially to Lo0p in this terrible time.



SP

I do appreciate the offer of the book but my wife would go ape if I disclosed our address. I agree that diet is key. There was a time when people ate a diet which made them healthy, not ill. I would love to change the way we eat here but I don't do the cooking so it is beyond my control unfortunately. I will read the free download.

Maybe the title of this thread is wrong. Maybe it should be, Does Vitamin D have a role in alcohol recovery?

I came across Ameisen's description of the theory of Baclofen use:


It has been hypothesized that the therapeutic effects of Gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) in alcohol dependence could be related to ethanol-mimicking action of the drug and that GHB could reduce alcohol craving, intake and withdrawal by acting as a "substitute" of the alcohol in the central nervous system. Nevertheless, alcohol being the strongest trigger of craving and intake, it is difficult to ascribe reduction of craving and intake to ethanol-mimicking activity of GHB. I have recently proposed that alcohol/substance dependence could result from a GHB-deficiency-related dysphoric syndrome in which alcohol/substances would be sought to "substitute" for insufficient GHB effect. GHB is the sole identified naturally occurring gamma-aminobutyric acid B (GABA (B)) receptor agonist. Here, I propose that exogenous GHB might in fact "substitute" for deficient endogeneous GHB and represent true substitutive treatment for GHB-deficiency. And that baclofen and GHB could both compensate for deficient effect of the physiological GABA (B) receptor agonist(s).
Are the effects of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) tre... [Am J Drug Alcohol Abuse. 2008] - PubMed result
Gamma-Hydroxybutyrate (GHB)-Deficiency in alcohol-dependence?

The point he seems to me to be making is that GHB is a calming agent and that in alcoholism we don't have enough of it so we take alcohol which has the same effect. Baclofen mimics GHB.

But what is GHB calming? Ameisen suggests it is calming a physiological anxiety. So, what causes the anxiety?? It is an anxiety that some describe as making them feel uncomfortable in their own skin. Ameisen says it is a disorder of the amygdala and limbic systems which are all connected by nerves. I am just hypothesizing that anxiety/craving is caused by nerve damage brought on by alcohol consumption and its effect on myelin, or at least in part. I would hope that might stimulate enquiry and debate and maybe move things along.

[redhead77]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

Road to Recovery;1246522 wrote: Last thing I am going to post for a while.
I am just going to let you know - me being an alcoholic (Cassander and Otter are not - I do not know why they insist on drowning this forum in pointless theories), I do not give a damn about all of these threads about what you think may cause alcoholism - there are so many it just makes for more giberish - for those who come here to find a way out - to wade through and it doesn't accomplish anything. Alcoholics who come here want to find a way out - they don't want to find an excuse for their disease like "I am only an alcoholic because some guy who isn't an alcoholic or doctor or scientist, says that I am Vitamin D deficient".
I came here to find ways of getting off alcohol - not read thread after thread after thread that goes nowhere about theories - especially from people that have no clue what it is like to be an alcoholic - they have no idea about the struggles and the pain that alcohol puts us through, and never will.

Hi Road.

I've been thinking about this post. It's been bothering me (but I thought I'd sleep on it first and then some). I'd like to mention that Cassander doesn't post many theories. He usually posts research. Research pertaining to baclofen. I appreciate the research, even though I don't chime in often and tell him so. He also had a drinking problem that he handled on his own. Maybe it wouldn't be a problem that is as big as some of ours, but it was a problem to him. He quit on his own.

The most important point I'd like to make is the fact that his son is taking HDB (his flesh and blood). I don't know if you have kids Road, or a kid with any kind of problem, but having a kid with a problem is worse than having the problem yourself. If I remember correctly, he was a big influence on his son starting baclofen. So, I'm sure he has every right to be here, and I don't blame him one bit for all the hours he puts into reading about baclofen (I would do the same thing). At least what he posts is relevant to the forum.

[gratitude]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

Then don't read a thread on vit D.
p.s. I'm. An alcoholic and I read as much as I can on the subject.

[redhead77]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

I'm trying to understand where you're going with that post, Gratitude. Maybe you think I meant that this thread has no relevance here? Hardly. That's not what I was implying. I was actually very well read on vitamin D at one time, and I've read it may be a contributing factor to some with alcohol dependence. I've never read that it is a causative factor, however. I never chimed in on that since I can't remember where I read it, and I don't have time to research and back up my statement. I was referring to what I've been writing about lately. That might be deemed as having no relevance here.

I'm an alcoholic too and I read as much as I can on the subject.

[SlipperyPete]

Is alcoholism caused by Vitamin D deficiency?

gratitude;1247588 wrote: Then don't read a thread on vit D.
p.s. I'm. An alcoholic and I read as much as I can on the subject.

gratitude, you can't respond to such a thoughtful, respectful, and intelligent post like the one that redhead made with "go away. I'm an alcoholic. I know everything."

Or can you?

Go away. We're all alcoholics. You don't know anything.

Yes. Yes, you can.

I guess I learned something today :thanks:

We're done here, right? Because I really need to get back to sleep.