Baclofen failures?

[Zman]

Hi All,

I dont mean to be a downer, but I was just wondering whether people have managed to get up to high dosage levels and have NOT reached indifference?

Anyone know of people who reached 250-270mg and still didnt find the switch? If so, is this fairly common or is it a small unfortunate minority?

I am up to 160mg now and am not feeling any different and so thats why I am asking the above question.

Many thanks,

ZMAN

[Zman]

Baclofen failures?

Also, how many people on here have actually reached indifference? Is it like 20 or 50 or more?

Thanks

[moglor]

Baclofen failures?

I was just about to post something about this in my own thread. I don't feel like I ever reached "the switch" that people often describe. What I experienced was a significant reduction in cravings for alcohol, starting at around 150mg. I ultimately got up to 250mg, but did not feel any major differences in craving reduction over 150. I suppose I could have gone farther, but that dosage level allowed me to say No when I needed to, and that was enough.

I did end up going off the rails after I'd reduced my dosage, so this time around I'm going to stick at the dose that gives me relief from the cravings for as long as possible. (Currently this is 150mg.)

[Zman]

Baclofen failures?

Moglor,

Isnt the ability to say "no" the same thing as the "switch" or is it something more profound than that?

[windycitylady]

Baclofen failures?

Hey Zman!
I went as high as 225 mg/day without reaching indifference. I know that's not a ridiculously high amount, but I am a 120 lb female. I did snag 3 precious AF days around 150 mg/ day, but I was literally in a log cabin, sharing a pull out sofa bed with my sister who's in AA. Pretty conducive to not drinking. I know Ne had to go very high, I believe around 340 mg/day. I was willing to keep going up but couldn't because of my work situation. I do believe in HDB and don't really count myself as a "failure", but rather as one of those who require an especially high dosage. One that I currently can't manage because of work.

[suneelca]

Baclofen failures?

Hi, Zman. Good question / thread / topic.

Am at 120 mg a day, and drink a bottle and a half of wine a week (as opposed to that much in a day). This, I believe, is considered a 'safe' level of AL consumption. My mother-in-law was here for dinner last night (not that that makes me anxious! ;-)), and I had a couple of glasses of wine. I poured myself a third, and then poured it right back. Most wine tastes like crap to me now.

So pretty sure I haven't hit the switch, but given where I am, and relative to SEs, hanging out here, because ...

In addition to huge reduction in AL use, have also quit smoking cigarettes, mostly stopped smoking pot, shed most of the meds I had been prescribed for a diagnosis of bipolar (that I now disagree with), and, okay, will admit it, have stopped watching porn. Plus most impulsive shopping.

I got up as high as 200 mg and backed off to 120 - 140 because of the side effects. Like windycitylady, I can't go through a long period of time in zombie-hood in search of the switch.

I think I'm a pretty pure example of anxiety-driven behaviors. The Bac seems to have allayed 80 percent of my baseline anxiety. In addition to having been able to shed or reduce a range of undesired behaviors, I have what amounts to a new life.

My sense is that many folks don't necessarily fail, but can't handle the SEs and get off. There are days when I'm a bit of a zombie at 120 mg and contemplate getting off (for a split second or less). Not a lot of MDs who prescribe seem to have a great sense of how to titrate people on the drug successfully as there just isn't a set treatment protocol based on a clinical trial. Only Dr. Levin out of Chicago seems to have that down ...

PS -- Not sure that hitting the switch is essential. If one can get to the point where even if one has cravings, but can be with them until they pass (as opposed to struggling with them), that may be 90 percent of the battle. To wit, I have cravings to smoke cigarettes all the time, but they pass quickly. (Visualizing myself sucking on the end of a hot car exhaust pipe helps.) I also used a system for quitting that has a rule that if a craving arrives, rather than trying to get rid of it, one allows the thought to be there and says, "Yippee, I'm a non-smoker!" In that sense, what he in part is saying is that struggling within oneself over drinking causes stress that in turns increases the desire to drink ... you get the drift.

I'll stop there. Thanks!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen failures?

Perhaps the question is not amount, specifically, but amount plus time.

I felt as though it took me forever to reach indifference. (3 months and 28 days. Not that I was counting. ) I look back on it now as a blessing. First of all, my side effects were horrific. I couldn't have gone any faster, probably should have gone slower. Second of all, it gave me a chance to make a plan. Or rather lots of plans. (Not pipe dreams, mind you. Though there's some of that rolling around, too. But actual realistic goals and a plan to achieve them.)

What I had forgotten until today, and the reason that I bring it up, is that it was kinda topsy-turvy for a while there. My 'memory' of it is that I woke up one morning with a beatific smile on my face, and haven't wanted a drink since. Not so!!!
I read back over my thread during that time. (Feb 4th, 2011, if anyone cares to look) and I was unsure and unclear and moody and worried and all that fun stuff...Also, for sure, ecstatic and healthy and optimistic and eager.
And with very specific goals and plans to achieve them.
Just my .02.
Z, as to where you are and how you feel specifically, I can't really suggest anything, except what was suggested to me--just keep taking the damn pills. Regularly. Not all at once. Not 150mg one day, and 75mg the next. And if your side effects are terrible, lay part of the blame with the booze. Maybe even a big part. I had to make a choice--booze or bac. Well, actually, I chose both because I can be very obstinate when my mind is made up. But I suffered mightily because of it.
And know this for sure: The side effects? They all wear off. All of them, except maybe some somnolence? I can't tell. It's been a year and a half for me on bac, and I take naps because I can and I like them.

The bottom line? If you take the pills indifference will come. And then you get to figure out how to handle it. And then you get to manage it and work at maintaining it. And then, eventually, you wake up and don't care about any of it and you'll have to visit here to remember what it was like to care about booze at all, or worry about bac. (Don't get me wrong. I've learned from the people who have gone before. I worry a lot about booze, and I care a lot about bac.) At least that's my experience.

Hang in there. It really is worth it. At least it has been for me.

[GingerDust]

Baclofen failures?

I think maybe it's mistake to think in terms of success and failure with baclofen.

I reached indifference but could not stay there because of the SE's. There's no doubt in my mind that would it have continued to work if I could have continued at the high dose. I couldn't do that and keep my job. I will probably never go off baclofen completely because it's pretty awesome - at lower doses - in keeping anxiety in check. Also, I have never in my life slept better than I do now. In my case, it's not useless at taking the edge of cravings even at lower doses, but I need something more than what it can offer at the dose I am able to take.

I'm adding antabuse to the mix. I figure that I won't be able to drink at all, so I won't have that battle going on in my head, and I can still use baclofen for the intense - "MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE" - moments that create anxiety and cravings.

It's not all black and white with baclofen. What in life is? There is a lot of gray area where other things, other activities, other meds, other approaches, and other ways of looking at it could make all the difference in the world!

If you don't get what you want out of baclofen, I hope that you do not consider it a failure on your part or on baclofen's part. That medication just one thing that can be used in concert with a symphony of things.

There are so many options available to us now. You can create your own opus if you don't limit the wide range of notes that you are willing to include in that song.

Hang in there Zman. Keep an open mind and don't put all the burden of physical, psychological, physiological, and emotional sobriety on baclofen. It's just a little pill, but it can be a mighty tool if you add it to a box of other tools.

You can do this.

[Zman]

Baclofen failures?

"The bottom line? If you take the pills indifference will come." - Ne

I think that is the statement I was wanting to hear. If that is true, then i will keep taking the pills regardless of SEs and anything else!

I am just wondering whether others concur with that statement. Thanks all, keep the replies coming!

FYI - The way im doing it is, I start taking the Bac at around 7pm (bc thats when my cravings usually start). Then I take another dose at 8.30, then 10.00 and then 11.30. Equal doses everytime. Last night, though, I realized I felt fine after the 11.30 dose (i.e. no SEs) so took another 40mg a few hours later. So now I'm up to 200mg I guess!

[LadyLush]

Baclofen failures?

GingerDust;1255984 wrote: I think maybe it's mistake to think in terms of success and failure with baclofen.

I reached indifference but could not stay there because of the SE's. There's no doubt in my mind that would it have continued to work if I could have continued at the high dose. I couldn't do that and keep my job. I will probably never go off baclofen completely because it's pretty awesome - at lower doses - in keeping anxiety in check. Also, I have never in my life slept better than I do now. In my case, it's not useless at taking the edge of cravings even at lower doses, but I need something more than what it can offer at the dose I am able to take.

I'm adding antabuse to the mix. I figure that I won't be able to drink at all, so I won't have that battle going on in my head, and I can still use baclofen for the intense - "MY HEAD IS GOING TO EXPLODE" - moments that create anxiety and cravings.

It's not all black and white with baclofen. What in life is? There is a lot of gray area where other things, other activities, other meds, other approaches, and other ways of looking at it could make all the difference in the world!

If you don't get what you want out of baclofen, I hope that you do not consider it a failure on your part or on baclofen's part. That medication just one thing that can be used in concert with a symphony of things.

There are so many options available to us now. You can create your own opus if you don't limit the wide range of notes that you are willing to include in that song.

Hang in there Zman. Keep an open mind and don't put all the burden of physical, psychological, physiological, and emotional sobriety on baclofen. It's just a little pill, but it can be a mighty tool if you add it to a box of other tools.

You can do this.

Ginger,
Ditto!

Baclofen saved me from the anxiety that was taking over my life. I just can't function at a high dose. Antabuse in the mix has been my saving grace. My life is so much better now.
I think they are both miracle drugs for those of us that really want to be sober and sane.

I wish you the best!

LL:l

[moglor]

Baclofen failures?

Zman;1255749 wrote: Moglor,

Isnt the ability to say "no" the same thing as the "switch" or is it something more profound than that?

Not sure. I think some people experience it much more profoundly. Some people drink continuously while on bac all the way up to their switch, when they immediately cease. It wasn't like that at all for me, just a gradual tapering down of drinking until I was finally able to say No on a regular basis.