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    Public Health Warning

    Dear all

    I want to reiterate what I said two years ago when I set up another site for Baclofen for the UK where there is comprehensive state medical care. I came here to find out about Baclofen for my wife's use. I have always been of the view, and continue to be, that this is a highly significant development in the field of alcoholism and addiction treatment. My point in starting the site was that this is a brain medication which will have a profound effect on whoever takes it particularly at such high levels and cries out for medical involvement.

    We have devleloped such a tolerance of taking drugs, legal and otherwise that it perhaps escapes notice that we are playing around with our brains with a medication,the long term effects of which are not known and largely without medical advice. What advice is being dispensed is often over the phone and not based on a thorough review of prevoius medical histories which might disclose some reason not to prescribe a particular medication.

    All in all, this is dangerous territory and I have discovered that to my cost. I do not shy away from that. Alcoholism is so horrendous an affliction that it drives many people to do desperate things.

    I feel that a lot of what has been posted here about experiences with high dose baclofen confirms my view that public authorites must get involved in this immediately. Baclofen for many is providing a very effective treatment for alcoholism and other addictions. For others it is causing many problems with side effects. For both reasons this is, IMHO, fast becoming a serious public health issue which demands government intervention.

    The use of a powerful brain medication with only the advice of lay people, however knowledgeable and well meaning, has to end at some point. No other medication, particularly with such serious side effects has been left to be dealt with in this way. It is rapidly becoming, not just a public health issue, but a public health scandal.

    I have come in for a lot of criticism here and I accept much of it. This should be a support forum. It helps innumerable people and it has helped me. I regret having become a voice which people don't want to hear. I don't want to have to come here myself but do so because I do need help myself. Baclofen is not the only way out of alcoholism. It should be the last resort, not the first method used. It is not candy but a very serious neurological teatment.

    I am not an apologist for Baclofen despite what people may think of me. I am well aware of its down side and I question my own involvement in this and know that to a large extent I have operated on faith in the science of Baclofen as I understand it and the histories of those who have persevered with it.

    I wish, with all my heart, that government and the medical profession would involve themselves in this issue now. I know others feel the same frustration over lack of public knowlege about the treatment and lack of medical advice.

    Maybe some of the crazy and disturbing posts here will help hasten the involvement of professionals in this treatment. I hope so. Maybe someone out there is reading this and can do something. I know there are doctors who read these posts. Please contact your professional bodies and licencing authorities and urge them to do something about this.
    BACLOFENISTA

    baclofenuk.com

    http://www.theendofmyaddiction.org





    Olivier Ameisen

    In addiction, suppression of symptoms should suppress the disease altogether since addiction is, as he observed, a "symptom-driven disease". Of all "anticraving medications used in animals, only one - baclofen - has the unique property of suppressing the motivation to consume cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine and d-amphetamine"

    #2
    Public Health Warning

    Appreciate your post Otter.

    You raise an important issue of course. If baclofen is working for so many as we see, the medical profession need to get behind it. Not only to monitor any dangers/side effects, but to maximise bac's potential.

    Best wishes. G-bloke.

    'I am part of all that I have met, yet all experience is an arch wherethro', gleams that untravelled world whose margins fade, forever and forever when I move'

    Zen soul Warrior. Freedom today-

    Comment


      #3
      Public Health Warning

      By NOT listening, the government and medical establishment made this horrible situation happen. By openly selling our information to insurance companies, thereby branding us as addicts forever, they have driven some people underground. By forcing this stupid "standard of care," that prevents medicines from being used for secondary purposes, the government and medical establishment have pushed this underground. It is the same with street drugs: government involvement is simply counterproductive.

      I think the empirical evidence proves the government is quite counterproductive. Just look at what those nitwits did with the tobacco settlement. They setup numbers you can call for quitting information and they will send you a package of "how to quit smoking advice." One of the things they sent in the package was a flipping rock... "play with this rock when you want to smoke." How nonsensical is that? The methods to quit smoking that actually work are wellbutrin and patch or Chantix. Rocks and high handed "advice" don't work. Yet, they squandered millions on those stupid lines. The same amount of money spent wisely would have helped tens of thousands quit using tobacco.

      The government's answer is the same as Bill W's: believe in some mystical power and white knuckle your way through life. That isn't acceptable. There are ways out of this mess, and the medical profession needs to step up to the plate and learn to prescribe these successful treatments. Until then, people will continue to try to find a way out of their personal hells.
      Sinclair Method (50mg naltrexone one hour before drinking)

      Pre TSM 80-90 Units Per Week, No Alc Free Days

      After control: 3-6 units per month, 25+ alcohol free days!

      Comment


        #4
        Public Health Warning

        Well said, Heavy Fuel. Thank you.

        Otter, why in God's good name would we put the possibility of a way out of addiction in the hands of the the corporate interests who reap huge benefits, not from ending addiction, but from having it continue?

        I have great respect for you, and for what you have offered to me and others here on MWO. But in this case I have to say WTF? Are you kidding?

        I believe you do not live in the U.S., where the Food and Drug Administration is unutterably corrupt; in the "pockets" of the pharmaceutical manufacturers and corporate food-growers; not to mention the "addiction and recovery" industry, which has a huge stake in keeping people addicted.

        I'm afraid that what I am so incredibly fortunate to be able to do - help people on a one-to-one basis, with the support of a physician, may be the best model available just now. Having the "government" involved with actually healing and curing people seems a far, far stretch to me.

        Of course, I bailed out of the U.S. health care system years ago, when I discovered, over a period of time, that my "insurance" didn't cover ANYTHING regarding alcoholism, OR flipping over in my porch-swing and breaking my clavicle. Maybe it's different where you live, but "health care" in the U.S. is usually anything but. It's actually a disgusting, degrading, broken mess. I'll get my yearly physicals in India, where I pay $132 for every test I could possibly need, and take preventive health care treatments while I'm there, thank you very much. And I'll take the baclofen Dr. L. has prescribed for me . . . or order it online or buy it while I'm in India . . . and remain incredibly grateful that I have those options to remain free from addiction, without having to rely on "the system" to tell me what I can and can't do. Because "the system" is b.r.o.k.e.n. . . . not in every way, but in most.

        I don't have an overall solution, by any means. But I know that baclofen brought me out of the depths of alcoholism, with very few side effects, and none that were disturbing. I am now working with a physician who refers patients to me so I can help them with titration and side-effects, which she has no clue about. This physician recently left her practice, which was associated with one of the largest hospitals in my city, in part because her monthly "evaluation" was based on . . . get this . . . how many people she ADMITTED to the hospital each month. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?!?!?!?
        "Wherever you are is the entry point." --Kabir

        Comment


          #5
          Public Health Warning

          I too live in the US and agree with everything you said RedThread. ^^

          Comment


            #6
            Public Health Warning

            Red.. :bow

            I think you are totally on point about your assessment of US health care. (and food care) You also make a very important point that the health care systems are different from country to country which is an important consideration when assessing these posts.

            DG
            Sobriety Date = 5/22/08
            Nicotine Free Date = 2/27/07


            One day at a time.

            Comment


              #7
              Public Health Warning

              Yep. With you. Pretty accurate synopsis. grrrr.

              Comment


                #8
                Public Health Warning

                I share the concern that everybody above has expressed about the US approach to alcohol treatment. I would like to add to the list of guilty culprits the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) of the National Institutes of Health. So far as I can tell there are numerous approved medicines for alcoholism and plenty of anecdotal evidence regarding the safety and efficacy of baclofen, but if you read the NIAAA's website there is no dynamism, no sense of urgency, no energy in fighting the problem. There is no sense of palpable hope. There is no mention of baclofen. It looks to me like there hasn't even been a formal Director for over four years (the current director seems to be an Acting Director).

                According to Wikipedia NIAAA is supposed to be doing the following:

                The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA), as part of the U.S. National Institutes of Health, supports and conducts biomedical and behavioral research on the causes, consequences, treatment, and prevention of alcoholism and alcohol-related problems. It funds approximately 90 percent of all such research in the United States and promotes reductions in the per capita consumption of alcohol. NIAAA also provides leadership in the national effort to reduce the severe and sometimes fatal consequences of these problems.

                According to its mission statement, the agency provides leadership in the national effort to reduce alcohol-related problems by:

                Conducting and supporting research in a wide range of scientific areas including genetics, neuroscience, epidemiology, health risks and benefits of alcohol consumption, prevention, and treatment

                Coordinating and collaborating with other research institutes and federal programs on alcohol-related issues

                Collaborating with international, national, state, and local institutions, organizations, agencies, and programs engaged in alcohol-related work

                Translating and disseminating research findings to health care providers, researchers, policymakers, and the public.

                The Vision Statement of the agency is to support and promote the best science on alcohol and health for the benefit of all by:

                Increasing the understanding of normal and abnormal biological functions and behavior relating to alcohol use

                Improving the diagnosis, prevention, and treatment of alcohol use disorders

                Enhancing quality health care


                NIAAA's research initiatives are:


                Basic Research on Medications Development for Alcohol-Use Disorders

                Genetic Studies of Vulnerability to Alcohol

                Mechanisms and Markers of Alcohol-Induced Organ Damage and Organ Protection

                Behavioral and Genetic Risk Factors for Alcoholism

                Long-term, Community-Based Prevention of Alcohol Problems at Specific Life Stages:

                Underage Populations and the Elderly

                Identifying the Neuroscientific Basis of Alcohol-Related Behaviors

                Multi-site, Collaborative Initiative on Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, Women, HIV/AIDS, and Alcohol

                Disparities in Adverse and Beneficial Effects of Alcohol

                Advancing Behavioral Therapies for Alcoholism
                With profound appreciation to Dr Olivier Ameisen for his brilliant insight and courageous determination

                Comment


                  #9
                  Public Health Warning

                  1 good news, and gratitude to all!!!

                  Yeah, if you live in the U.S., the health care system is totally . . . whatever the title of that thread is where everyone uses "fuck" in all of its many and profound applications!

                  But, WOO - fuckin'- WOO!!! for MWO and Dr. Ameisen, all of you baclofentists, before me, and after me, and ALL of you who keep this forum ALIVE!!!!

                  I'll add to one day at a time . . . one life at a time.

                  Today I met with one of the "patients" referred to me for "consultation" while the Dr. prescribes the baclofen. She had her first AF weekend since she was 18 years old. She is now in her late 40's, running her own company, and was teetering on the edge when the Dr. sent her to me!!!!!!

                  At 75 mg bac/day!!!

                  For the record, and I promise, I will actually someday put all of "this," on record, her most uncomfortable side-effect was the water-weight and bloating. We dealt with "shortness of breath" with simple yoga practices, and "fluttering eyes," the same way. I called the Dr. and told her about the water-retention, and voila! a prescription for Lasix, and now Mary is brighter, more energetic and exercising more than she has in years.

                  She hadn't told the Dr. that she also had an issue with "going to the casino," which has also dissolved. AND she couldn't care less that her husband continues to drink and go to the casino. As she was leaving, with our mutual agreement that she should move up to 80 mg/day for now, I said, "this may or may not be your 'switch,' let's just stay in touch and see what happens." She turned to me, and with gleaming eyes, said, "I'm going to make this my "switch."

                  We'll see, we'll see . . . but she has a lot of space if things don't progress linearly, and I KNOW that having her Dr's support and my support, guiding her through discomforts and discouragement (she had a couple of AF day early on and thought it was all all over with!!), makes a helluva' lot of difference toward a positive outcome than those of us who just jumped off the cliff on our own.

                  Which leaves me again, utterly grateful :bow to you'se all. Mary is, too. She just doesn't know you, like I do! :h

                  (yippee, my emoticons have returned to duty!!)

                  So - there is definitely hope from here, and maybe for all of us, that even "one Dr. at a time," may bring some results . . . although, most likely, sometime after we are dead! But NOT from the disease of alcohol!!! Guess it's best to take the long view :H :thanks:
                  "Wherever you are is the entry point." --Kabir

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Public Health Warning

                    sharonsweetiepie;1270807 wrote: Baclofen is far safer than the severely toxic effects of high alcohol ingestion, via liver, heart, brain, pancreas, you name it.
                    Maybe not if the guy who is making it is psychotic and wacked out on xanax, right?
                    TerryK celebrates 6 years of sobriety and indifference to alcohol thanks to baclofen

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Public Health Warning

                      sharonsweetiepie;1270807 wrote: Wasnt the average life span of a human being before medicine like 35 years?

                      Dont take it, we'll hear less of you soon. Baclofen is far safer than the severely toxic effects of high alcohol ingestion, via liver, heart, brain, pancreas, you name it. Any End-organ system is completely damaged repreatedely over time and even over a short period of time.

                      A few headaches, some somnolence, some bitching and moaning. Yeah side effects. Try dying of liver failure with deep intravenous coagulapathy, where your liver which used to make clotting factors fails and you go through an EBOLA VIRUS DEATH bleeding from every orificie. eyes, notse, ear, penis anus rips.

                      I think baclofen is a tad safer. But for those that think baclofen is like taking an ibuprofen theyre as dumb as thinking a drinking a litre of liquor a day promotes good health.Drum it in.

                      Baclofen, not perfect, alcohol is never perfect
                      Boy, I'm glad you're not making *my* baclofen. -tk
                      TerryK celebrates 6 years of sobriety and indifference to alcohol thanks to baclofen

                      Comment

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