About to start a Baclofen Journey

[TimUK]

Hey, I'm Tim, will get round to doing a proper introduction soon, a bit busy atm, and find it hard to concentrate these days due to bloody anxiety. Cut to the chase......

My Bac should be arriving this week. Have spent the past month furiosly researching this board, reading Dr A's book and hoping like mad that Bac is going to releive my crushing anxiety and stop me before I become a full blown alcoholic. I know I am not physically dependant on alcohol as I recently spent a week in hospital with no meds at all and I was fine, a little anxious and a little down, but I coped fine. But in the last eight weeks the cycle of drinking and anxiety has gotten pretty bad and I am now looking to stop this in its tracks before it gets too late.

My mission, mainly to get the anxiety under control and stop drinking so much, I do not know if I want to go fully AF, but I do want to stop relying on my five o'clock glass of wine to chill me out (which then turns into another four or so glasses).

I also start CBT for anxiety today so hopefully that will help. I have read so much about Bac here and you guys have provided some awesome information on many areas I have been very concerned about. I do not have the support of either my GP or Pdoc for this therapy. All they want to do is keep gicing me SSRI's which have seemed to make the anxiety worse (but has helped the depression) or sleeping pills and low odes benzos.

I really hate my anxiety.

I really want it to go away so I can get on with my life.

I do not want to drink so much because I feel I have no alternative.

I hope Baclofen works for me

I will update soon.

Thanks in advance and in retrospect for the advice, please chime in with anything you think will be helpful.

t

[sujo]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Good luck.
I've ordered mine too. This am! I've been like you reading so much stuff my head spins. I take it you're in the UK. I used inhouse. I'm now planning how I'm going to take it. Very low & slow.

[Sammi33]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Hi Tim,

I'm on baclofen too and just wanted to say welsome and good luck. It is great that you have been reading the other posts there is so much great information and support, and so many baclofen journeys you can follow so you can be aware of some of the things that might pop up in terms of side effects.

Just remember that everyone is different so what other people have experienced in side effects are not necessarily going to be the same for you. I suffer anxiety as well and for a while i read so much here about baclofen users that i got myself all stressed out that i was going to debilitated by side effects and was too scared to go up.

Now i have relaxed a bit and decided just to see for myself what happens as i increase, and i do find as i have gone up baclofen has helped me reduce my anxiety about baclofen!!

All the best and be sure to post your experiences when you get going.

Sammi xx

[krs]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Tim--

I have suffered from horrible anxiety and OCD my entire life. Baclofen does work. To lessen side effects, I'm going to give you the protocol Dr. Levin gave me. When I started a few months ago, I was going by what I read here and there, and once I started this protocol, the SE's have been lessened greatly. You'll go up a little more slowly, but I think this is safest. From my RX bottle:


Week 1: take 5mg on Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, and then 5mg twice a day (total of 10mg) on last 3 days of first week

Week 2:Take 10mg's three times a day (total of 30mg). I do my doses at 8AM 1PM, and 8PM. I think keeping this consistent is a important.

Week 3: Take 20mg's for AM dose. 10mgs for afternoon dose, and 20mg for evening dose -- total of 50mg a day

Week 4: Take 25mg in morning, 20mg in the afternoon and 25mg at night (total of 70)

Each subsequent week, add 20 mg a day more, always following the same dosage schedule of heaviest dose in AM and PM, and lighter dose in afternoon.

I do not know what and where this journey will take me but a few things have happened for me. I don't have the overwhelming desire to drink to deal with my anxiety, which then led to alcoholism, and a serious benzo addiction -- which I have stopped (very difficult). I also have been doing MUCH better in my professional life. So, it does work as it's touted.

[windycitylady]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Welcome, Tim! It sounds like you're on the right track. The titration schedule suggested by krs is ideal. Slow and steady! Just try not to take your last dose of bac too close to bedtime. Might help to avoid some of the nightime SEs.
CBT for anxiety sounds great! I like the idea of attacking things on all fronts. Meds/talking therapy/nutrition/exercise.
For me, different antidepressants effected my anxiety in different ways. Paxil worked well for me for many years, but I didn't like the sexual side effects. Wellbutrin improved my depression but aggravated my anxiety, leading to a bizarre happy/terrified mixed state. I tried a host of other ADs, only to discover simillar issues. My propensity toward addiction was discovered pretty early, so I was never prescribed benzos after age 18. What works for me today is gabapentin, buspar, and low dose baclofen. As much as I suffer from depresion and as terrible as it is, I would take that in a heartbeat over anxiety. I can't function AT ALL when I'm highly anxious. So I understand where you're coming from.
Gabapentin in particular has been a real life saver for me in terms of both depression and anxiety.
Best of luck to you, and let us know how it goes!

[TimUK]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Firstly Thanks for the feedback so far

sujo, I ordered from GoldPharma, have heard from a number of independant sources that they are reliable and well priced. I will let you know how long they take to come and what they are like.

Ok so a proper introduction, now that I am not so busy.

History, Ancient and Modern

I was born in 1976, had a happy childhood and in my early teens began to experience a bit of anxiety. I wasn't really bullied at School but I was a fat lad (and now a bit of a fat adult, but I am working on it), so there was a bit of name calling and such like. When I was eleven I had to have the first of several operations on my hips to correct a growth problem with the bone, this led to quite a lot of time out of School and for times I was confined to a wheel chair.

In my later teens from the age of around fifteen onwards I began to smoke quite a lot of Ganja, and also occasionally took LSD, this coincided with the beginning of the club scene in my home town and I stopped the LSD and started taking Ecstasy on a recreational basis. I drank, but not to any great extent. I functioned well at School, got good GCSE's and A Levels and went to University when I was Eighteen.

Uni was where the hard drinking started, along with an increase in the use of drugs, particularly amphetamine. Within two years I was a fall down drunk, dropping out of classes and basically flunking all attempts at being a student. The anxiety began when I arrived at University and if not developed before my heavy drinking, certainly coincided with it, the traditional chicken and egg conundrum that I think many of us face. On balance I think I was always predisposed to anxiety as a child, and teenager, but of course the drugs and drink had amplified this to an extreme level. I had my first full blown panic attack in the second term of the first year and ended up with an A&E admission where I was treated like a lepper y a Doctor, told to stay off the drugs and booze and basically told off for wasting time.

After this the anxiety seemed to stick around, never full blown panic but allways there, I was on edge. The drugs and drink masked it successfully and this is how I came at the age of twenty one to go through a fairly horrible period where I basically detoxed myself with little help from a Doctor by reducing my drinking and stopping the drugs cold turkey. It was not pleasant. I eventually relapsed into booze and was actually then admitted for a detox. This went well and I remained AF for two years at which time I returned to social drinking. I was very careful and managed to integrate alcohol into my life in a relatively healthy way.

At twenty five, having returned to sensible social drinking, I met my future wife and things were pretty good in life, had a job which would turn into a career eventually, had a great agirl who I loved (this part has a happy ending and I know how lucky I am to have that). By twenty seven I was married, and had a baby on the way. The career still going ok, I took time out to be the house husband, start my own business and return to University to take a degree which I completed in two years, another child, a masters degree and I then achieved my lifelong ambition to teach in higher education.

There were hiccups on the way, a return to depression which I had had after my initial detox, so I cut out the drink, got some exercise and managed it all without meds. All in all I was probably drinking too much, but I had the anxiety under control. I never drank in the day and never got drunk.

What happened next?

Just over a year ago I had the opportunity to travel to China to lecture there for around twelve weeks in total, it was a great job and I had a great time there. Immediately on my return to the UK I had organised a permanent teaching post at a private HE college. There was a lengthy commute and the job was pretty stressful as the students were really only here for a VISA and not to learn. Quickly the Job became unbearable and I needed an exit strategy. The drinking had become a necessary part of my day for the first time since I was twenty two. Anxiety began to creep up again.
My exit plan was organised, I took on lots of consulting work to build up some cash reserves, I was asked back to lecture in the spring of 2012 in China. I had simply to get over the after Xmas exam period and I could jack the crappy job in, jet off for four weeks and revive my business. I did the finances (I teach accounting and finance), and we would be ok financially. I had a two week break at Xmas and went from a typical seventy hour week to nothing, Xmas day was lovely, but I got stinking drunk for the first time in many years. A few days after I felt the dread hand of depression grip me. I was travelling to China on the 8th of February, so I tapered off my drinking to just a couple of glasses of wine, started out on the bike riding and fresh air approach, but this time I also knew that I would probably have to get some medication as I did not want to be in China with these problems so far away from my support network.

(DISCLAIMER, I know that a lot of people who read these forums are anxious about the effects of meds, I am one of these people, what happened to me was a very rare experience, literally one in one hundred thousand chance, Zoloft is a well know and well tolerated medication, so do not worry if you are or are about to start taking it)

I was prescribed Zoloft, and began to take it, within twenty four hours I had stopped sleeping and the anxiety dial was turned up to eleven. Four days later I started to have horrible obsessive thoughts about harming myself and family. I had a full on breakdown and was admitted to A&E where a finally met a decent Psycxhiatrist who sedated me and got me voluntarily admitted to a very good mental health unit. The next day I felt much better and had a long chat with the head of the crisis unit who explained that I had not gone crazy but that a combination of my reduction of alcohol and the Zoloft had caused a very rare reaction with my brain chemistry. I spent a week there, no detox was necessary for which I am eternally grateful and I was started on Prozac. I had some ups and downs, but I felt a lot better.

I was discharged a week later and had follow up care from the crisis team, which was great. It was difficult being back at home around all of the old stresses and I had no job (I had already resigned from my lecturing post). I have picked up some work and my contacts in China have been very kind and have told me that I can return whenever I feel ready. I am grateful that they think so highly of me.

Things went well for a week or so then all hell broke loose in our lives. My five year old niece was diagnosed with cancer, she is the apple of my eye and I took the news very hard. Our beloved dog had to be put down, and he really was this mans best friend. And worst of all my anxiety came back with a vengeance. I had a follow up with my Psych and GP and they prescribed some low dose diazepam and Zopiclone to sleep. Neither worked very well, and I began to use the old standby, a few glasses of wine.

Currently I am drinking between five and six glasses of wine in the evening and I begin each day with the gut wrenching feeling that I know I am going to have to drink to get through the day. I have a few benzos left and most of the Zopiclone and I am too scared to take them. I do not drink during the day and I am keeping all of this away from my happy family. I have put them through a lot and cannot bear to put them through any more. I have spoken to both my GP and Psych about Baclofen which I have been researching for about a month. I sent links to the clinical evidence and anecdotal evidence and after reading Dr A's book I have a feeling that Baclofen will work for me.

I am not sure what I need to do, whether or not I have caught this soon enough so that a low does of Bac will help me to manage my drinking and anxiety, or whether or not I will go the HDB route and go AF.

If I had a choice (which I may not I realise that). I hope that Bac reduces my anxiety and my will power does the rest. I enjoy a drink and had managed it as a part of my life for many years without problem. I am not physically addicted to alcohol but I am now psychologically dependant on it and I need help with breaking this dependence.

I hate my anxiety

I hope Baclofen works

I am scared of all SE's

I am brave enough to try

I am Tim, nice to meet you, as I have said before, please chime in with anything that you think will be helpful, I do not have the support of any Doctor.

[TimUK]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Just re read that and have forgotten to add some of the positives; a habit of mine which I must break!!

I am seriously on a health kick with plenty of exercise, I have taken up raquetball and go to a weekly fat club for blokes where we do an hours running about and then weigh in. I have lost two stone in eight weeks.

I still have my wonderful family around me and I love them all very much.

I am not in as bad shape as I was eight weeks ago, but the drinking creeping up does worry me.

I am glad to be alive and to be gifted with all that I have, we have no major debts and we manage to keep the wolf from the door. I am getting back to a bit of work and we should be fine for money.

For any of you who do want to help me out I am particularly concerned about the following things (not just anxious, I am anxious about all aspects of this)

I take Prozac @ 30mg per day (20 one day, 40 the next as there is no middle ground tablet). What is the likely effect of any interactions. I have seen varying opinions. I would like to come off these. I have been taking them for around eight weeks and I no longer feel so down all the time.

I am still overweight, I way just under 22 stone now, are there any other larger guys out there and do we have to go up so high with Bac to reach a switch, according to the body weight schedule of Dr A, if so is this safe, I would have to take a shed load of the stuff. I hope to get down to around 18 stone in the next year, I am big anyhow so this is a reasonable weight for me (it was the weight I used to box at).

Any opinions would be greatly received.

thanks

t

[TimUK]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

krs,

many thanks for the schedule, this was one of the areas I was particularly concerned with, not having any medical support is a pain.

One quick question the first 5 mg doses, what time of the day to take?? Is it important at this low dose at all?

Many thanks

t

[TimUK]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

windycitylady,

thanks for the input, what is gabapetin? can it be used alongside both prozac and Bac and where can I get it from??

Interesting as I hate the SSRI's and think that the reappearance of my anxiety has much to do with them, but the horrible low feeling has largely gone for now so I am reluctant to say goodbye to them just yet.

Many Thanks

t

[TimUK]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

sujo,

have read some of your other threads, you seem to be in a darker place than I am at the moment, never give up hope, never give in to this disease and do not blame yourself. These things , I at least manage not to do. The way I look at it is this. I have taken the tablets the Dr has given me, I do all the things that the Drs have told me to do, now the depression has gone away, but I am still so fucking anxious about everything, that has not gone away, it will not go away if I take 2mg of Diazepam but I am hoping that like many others here Baclofen will help me manage it in a non addictive way. the only drug that works to stop my anxiety at the moment is Alcohol. I drink it because I need some daily releif from feeling absolutely shitty. Bac looks like it might do the same job and allow me to get back to enjoying the occasional glass of wine. Keep the faith that things will get better.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Wowza, UKTim! Welcome!

I took bac all the way up...And don't regret it despite the SEs I endured. Just the opposite, in fact.

That said...It's an individual choice and as you've read, bac isn't always a magic bullet. (Not a magic anything, of course.) It has helped some people immediately. Enough people that it's not uncommon and that it may do that for you.

Sounds like you have all the pieces of the puzzle in order and that your approach is really rational. As far as changing the meds you're taking, or really anything else, I would imagine it's a good idea to just stay the course. Particularly given your very recent, very traumatic experiences. Slow and steady, without being overly cautious or too anxious. (Good luck with that! :H I know how hard it was for me!!!)

I don't know that it much matters when you take baclofen, in terms of time of day. It's important to have a regular schedule, I think. And it can cause insomnia, but for most at the higher doses. Still, it might be a good idea to avoid taking it at night.

I'm excited for you! (For all of you!) I hope it works for you as well as it's worked for me.

[GingerDust]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Welcome Tim. I don't think there is good reason to be afraid of baclofen so long as you treat it as you would any other medication. The side effects are not painful, they're merely uncomfortable. But respect the side effects. If they get to be too much for you, reduce the dose and see if your body will gradually adjust to the drug.

Good luck.

[windycitylady]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Hey Tim! Your story is fascinating, and I hope I don't sound dismissive when I say I think it's great that you've managed to avoid a lot of the devastation (lost family, home, job) that alcoholism and mental illness can bring. I think it's interesting that you were prescribed zoloft then prozac, both of which are "activating" ADs in my opinion, meaning better suited to those whose depression is associated with lethargy not anxiety and/or mania. Prozac actually made me very manic, and coming off of it I had a epside of depression that seemed almost violent in nature (a lot of broken glasses, an uptick in self mutilation), but then again, I was a very unhappy youngster. Like I said before, paxil was the only SSRI that did anything at all for my anxiety. But it still wasn't enough. I was put on gabapentin and buspar as well. So, yes, I'm pretty sure you can take gabapentin with SSRIs. I was initially concerned about taking gabapentin and baclofen together, as they both work on GABA in your brain. My dad found accounts of people with MS taking high doses of both bac and gabapentin. This didn't put my mind completely at ease, but I went ahead with it anyway. And it seems to be ok. Whether you want to draw the conclusion that if it's ok to take gabapentin and SSRIs together, and it's ok to take gabapentin and baclofen together, then it must be ok to take all three together is up to you. This is the downside of playing doctor to ourselves. There are definitely scary risks. I would not try to add benzos anywhere in the equation.
Anyhow, gabapentin is an anti-convulsant and is also used to treat nerve pain. It acts on GABA in the brain. It is used off-label to treat medication resistant depression, anxiety, and bi polar. The theraputic dose is supposed to be 900-1200 mg/day. But many people here just take 400-600 on an as needed basis. I take 800-1200 a day. I have a family member who takes 2400 mg/day (under a doctor's supervision) with no side effects.
You seem like a very intelligent, self-aware person. I would just pay very close attention to how the bac effects your anxiety and drinking as you go up. If you find you're getting results at a low dosage, there may be no reason to go very high. I was initially shooting for indifference. I got as high as 225mg/day and was struggling with the SEs. Long story short, I'm now at 40 mg/day for cravings and take antabuse to stop any arguing in my mind about drinking.
Your family sounds wonderful. I'm so glad you have them. And I'm very, very sorry about your niece. That's absolutely tragic. And your dog! When I lost my companion pet of ten years, I was devastated.
Glad you're here! Let us know how it goes!

[TimUK]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Again thanks for all the feedback,

Have to say I have had a few setbacks in the last couple of days. I knew this was going to be a tough week, my Neice is about to go under the knife to remove her cancerous kidney, she is five, and has just lost all her beautiful hair to Chemotherapy. It is destroying me.

The anxiety is bad, waking up at 2 am for the last few nights and last night drank two glasses of wine at two am to get myself back off to sleep, I feel exhausted and hungover, never a good combination for anxiety. I have an appointment with my GP this afternoon and I am going to discuss changing AD meds with him, I really think the Prozac is making this worse. The anxiety came back about two weeks after my dosage was put up, coincidence? Possibly and the drinking and lack of sleep is not helping I am sure, I know all of this but really need the respite from the anxiety.

I took 2.5 mg Diazepam this morning, my first for some time. Feeling a little calmer now, may use some more today to see if I can have an AF day with the help of the Benzos.

Bac should hopefully be arriving today or tomorrow so I am hoping beyond hope that that has a good effect on both the drinking and anxiety.

Ok that's the negative. Time for the positive.

My Niece has responded very well to Chemo, despite its devastating effects and the prognosis is good.

I am not physically dependant on any drugs or alcohol, of this I am sure

I believe that Bac will help me o reduce anxiety and control my drinking, If not then I will go for the Switch

I have a loving family

I still have most of my sanity and capacity for thinking and work

I am still losing weight and exercising well

[TimUK]

About to start a Baclofen Journey

Oh and forgot to mention another bloody set back, my CBT therapist wants to wait until I have had my outpatients Psych appointment, which is not for another month before going forward with any CBT.

I was really encouraged that I was going to be getting some therapy.

Bugger!!